6 Iron Trackman Data - What am I missing? Too delofted?

minnesoda · October 25, 2021

Hi all, without trying to get too long winded I have been playing golf pretty frequently for a little over a year now and have some issues with my long irons in particular. This post will focus on the flight and launch conditions. You will probably pick up that I gravitate towards the technical aspects of most things I do.

I went into a facility with Trackman launch monitors and have attached my numbers with a 6 iron (basically a 5 iron) and also some 6 iron numbers from Justin Thomas via Trackman. I was swinging about 80% feel which is my stock effort while using a Snell MTB-X (between a Pro V1 and V1x spin and compression wise) with the metallic dots on and I am fairly sure the spin was being captured (was not italicized if I recall). I am using G400 irons, the 6 iron has a static loft of 26.5 degrees. Note JT's 6 iron in 2016 was likely somewhere around 30-31 degrees.

Am I missing something? Why do I have such low ball flight, is it predominantly due to low spin which, correct me if I am wrong, is mostly due to the fact I don't have Justin Thomas speed? I was always under the impression that my natural shaft lean/delofting was a very good thing, am I delofting it too much for my speed? Is it due to using super game improvement irons vs blades? Most of my other natural impact and launch metrics seem quite similar to JT

This low spin low ball flight isn't in my opinion very usable where I need it, long (to me) par 3s in particular. I do plan on doing speed training this winter but curious on everyone's thoughts on if this sticks out as mainly a speed issue, club issue, or something else more problematic

For reference:

* Average launch angle for my group of shots was 12.3 degrees

* Land angle was a meager 36.2 degrees

* Average rollout was 17.9 yards

(p.s I know this isn't a swing video, please point me to a more appropriate subforum if necessary)

Edited October 26, 2021 by minnesoda

GolfTurkey · October 25, 2021

The spin would be predominantly a function of speed, loft and hitting off a mat.

IMO the solutions for a more functional ball longer iron flight in ascending order of cost and effort are:

1. Switch to a higher spin ball e.g. Mizuno RB Tour X

2. Bend your lofts 2 degrees weaker

3. Replace the problematic irons with hybrids.

If it was me, I would do 1 and 2 and then try to get lessons from a good instructor if that is an option. Swing improvements usually provide extra speed "for free" as a side effect.

minnesoda · October 25, 2021

6 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

The spin would be predominantly a function of speed, loft and hitting off a mat.

IMO the solutions for a more functional ball longer iron flight in ascending order of cost and effort are:

1. Switch to a higher spin ball e.g. Mizuno RB Tour X

2. Bend your lofts 2 degrees weaker

3. Replace the problematic irons with hybrids.

If it was me, I would do 1 and 2 and then try to get lessons from a good instructor if that is an option. Swing improvements usually provide extra speed "for free" as a side effect.

Thank you for the feedback! Funny enough I was actually there to test 3 balls after reviewing the my golf spy 2021 ball lab and finally getting to a place where I am not losing many if any balls per round typically. In their testing they find the Kirkland to be extremely spinny and mention how niche it is and really only optimal for very few players, based on some of the results I saw, I might be one of those few players. I was testing the Kirkland (which I normally use), Pro V1x, and the Snell MTB-X and my results were very consistent with other data. Kirkland was most spin on irons by about 300-400, then Pro V1x, then a couple hundred revs under was the MTB-X.

I have a 4 hybrid lofted up that I hit about 10-15 yards longer than this 6 iron, I struggle to hit that high as well but typically I use that as a tee club on certain holes so the extra roll out is nice. I also have a Sim 5 wood on the way and have been considering a 7 or 9 wood too as those seem to launch a lot higher.

I will consider bending the lofts. I do plan on a lesson or two this winter and doing some speed training like Super Speed or Rypstick

Thanks again

Edited October 25, 2021 by minnesoda

BraxtonFullerton · October 25, 2021

What shafts do you play??

You can try to attack this purely from an equipment standpoint or you could try to get lessons to figure a better swing to optimize launch with what you do have in the bag already.

Choice is yours.

Edited October 25, 2021 by BraxtonFullerton

minnesoda · October 25, 2021

25 minutes ago, BraxtonFullerton said:

What shafts do you play??

You can try to attack this purely from an equipment standpoint or you could try to get lessons to figure a better swing to optimize launch with what you do have in the bag already.

Choice is yours.

I believe they are the stock AWT 2.0 steel shafts in regular flex. When I go for my next lesson I will ask about it. I feel like it might be sacrilegious to get rid of the natural flighted shot I have with my short irons and wedges that so many seem to covet but might be necessary

Pepperturbo · October 25, 2021

19 hours ago, minnesoda said:

I am using G400 irons, the 6 iron has a static loft of 26.5 degrees. Note JT's 6 in 2016 iron was likely somewhere around 30-31 degrees.

You don't mention what shafts are in G400 heads? I see, AWT 2.0 "R", = 98g weight with mid-high launch = with that shaft you should be getting a much higher trajectory.

Tour AoA average is -4, and I noticed 17.9yds of run-out, that's a lot to me. My lofts are traditional, so that would make my 160yd carry 6i, 177+yds. I use spin to stop my ball on greens. Also, here's something to consider, "forward shaft lean offsets the increase in downward AoA, neutralizing the effect on spin. The ball will launch lower, but spin will not change." Consider an upward angle of attack with more forward shaft lean at impact to get the ball up.

Since I play 620 MBs like JT, I suspect our 6i has the same 31' loft, but maybe not. He may have them juiced a bit. I play the DASH LS ball, JT plays ProV1x, not sure if it's the new spiny version or older less spin version.

I play to a 3-4 right now. SS can affect trajectory, but the shaft bend affects that too. I don't play Tour Issue X100 like JT, but play mid-high bend MMT 125 's' and a lot older. My 2cents...

Edited October 25, 2021 by Pepperturbo

minnesoda · October 25, 2021

8 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Consider an upward angle of attack with more forward shaft lean at impact to get the ball up.

Do you truly mean an upward angle of attack or do you mean less negative? An upward angle of attack from an off the deck iron shot goes against everything I have ever heard but maybe I am missing something

Pepperturbo · October 25, 2021

16 minutes ago, minnesoda said:

Do you truly mean an upward angle of attack or do you mean less negative? An upward angle of attack from an off the deck iron shot goes against everything I have ever heard but maybe I am missing something

Yes. Less downward, as you show -5.8 deg AoA when tour average is -4.

I am not an expert, just a self-taught, visual golfer that's never measured launch angle of my irons. I just know when I see my ball flight, if it's right or not so.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Pepperturbo

LeoLeo99 · October 25, 2021

A few years ago I was in Las Vegas and my drive found the desert. Rental clubs come with a 15th club in Vegas that they call the desert club. It's some old junky club that they tell you to use in the desert so that you don't mess up the good clubs. My desert club was a PW and I was 160 yds from the green. A normal PW goes 100yds for me. Therefore, I hit the shot with a lot of shaft lean, delofting the PW, hit down on it greatly because of the desert lie, hoped for the best. Ball went about 145 line drive in the air and rolled another 15 yds onto the green. Was a great shot. I think this is the type of shot you're hitting. You're bashing down on the ball with a hugely delofted clubface. Do you precock your wrists to start the swing? I've seen people do that and hit a lot linedrives with their 9 iron.

I play G400 irons with a -1 AoA and can hold greens no problem with my 6iron and 78 mph SS.

minnesoda · October 26, 2021

16 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

A few years ago I was in Las Vegas and my drive found the desert. Rental clubs come with a 15th club in Vegas that they call the desert club. It's some old junky club that they tell you to use in the desert so that you don't mess up the good clubs. My desert club was a PW and I was 160 yds from the green. A normal PW goes 100yds for me. Therefore, I hit the shot with a lot of shaft lean, delofting the PW, hit down on it greatly because of the desert lie, hoped for the best. Ball went about 145 line drive in the air and rolled another 15 yds onto the green. Was a great shot. I think this is the type of shot you're hitting. You're bashing down on the ball with a hugely delofted clubface. Do you precock your wrists to start the swing? I've seen people do that and hit a lot linedrives with their 9 iron.

I play G400 irons with a -1 AoA and can hold greens no problem with my 6iron and 78 mph SS.

I wouldn't say I precock my wrists but I do have a good amount of flexion in my backswing so that might be leading to effectively the same result. I don't have much issue with 8 through lob wedge in holding greens, the 8 iron can be a little low at times but the greens I play on are mostly quite soft and with PW for example I often see the ball within 2-3 feet of the pitch mark, once in a while in front of it. I have found a few drills for working on decreasing angle of attack and I will add them into my range work. They feel really weird, especially the release/rotation at impact, my release is non-existent right now.