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Time-money WASTED on WRX chasing "a better set of irons"?


RoyalMustang
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OK, so I can't be the only one. I don't really have a great fitter nearby and have to go somewhat with "my gut" on getting the right clubs. Feel and swing speed.  Most fitters here operate indoors.  The ones that do operate outdoors may fit your "current swing flaws" which doesn't work for me, as I have only been playing for 16 months now after taking more than 2 decades off (I played quite a bit in junior high, but nothing since). My swing is continually getting better and I don't want to be fit for my sometimes overly arms-y swing and EE

 

My alternative has been to buy clubs on here.  However, the first set I bought I still have (although I switched shafts); Mizuno MMC MP20.  

 

During that time I have tried the following, all purchased here

-Apex Pro 19 Nippon 130X

-Apex Pro 19 KBS C-taper 130x

-Mizuno 921 Forged LZ 6.0

-718 AP2 AMT Tour White X

-Apex Pro 21/MB21 DGS400

-585 $-Taper 125

 

Sure, I have enjoyed trying new clubs (the process is very fun!  I enjoy it). But I haven't found anything that beats, or even meets, the MP20 MMC.  Probably 1/2 of these I could totally live with, and those that I couldn't, such as the 921 Forged, had a bad shaft mismatch (my bad swings are not smooth enough for that shaft).  

 

I just wonder how common this process is for people here on WRX?  Buy something, try it, move on? 

 

How many clubs do you find before you are "wow, that is an improvement" vs "nah, next"?  Do you ever find the "one"?  Or are we all far too worried about the tools when we should be working on the skill of the operator? 

 

FWIW, if anyone ever wants a comparison, I can always give one based on my experiences.  For all of these, the MB21-Apex Pro 21 combo and 718 AP2 sets fit my swing the best.  I almost need to go to a softer shaft to force me to slow down and relax, but if I still make a firm swing that is too aggressive and steep, the results are horrible.  At least the X-flex shafts bail me out

 

 

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I would say that your not going to find a set and have some kind of "ahh ha" moment. You've tried a lot of great clubs/shafts and at this point its probably all about what feels the best. You will hear this forever, its gets old to hear, but its 100% true. Its not about making your good shots better, but making your misses better. If you enjoy the process then by all means go for it, but I would not expect to all of a sudden shave 5 strokes off your round because you found the right set of irons. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I 100% believe that every serious golfer should be professionally fit even if they have to travel (assuming its financially wise), but I believe that because being professionally fit will make your misses better and your confidence higher. Knowing not only how the clubs feel, but also what the data shows is a HUGE confidence booster, or at least it is to me. 

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If your current club(s) are producing nominally correct objective results and you have played them long enough for your swing mechanics to produce a repeatable response, virtually any substantial change will (and should) produce worse results. Worse, as your swing begins to attempt to adapt to the new requirements, your mechanics will also tend to destabilize. Literally the worst thing you can do is what you’re doing, changing equipment randomly in time and physical makeup.


The only time that an equipment change is really warranted and may be expected to have a long term positive effect is when the current configuration is outside of the physical characteristics that can produce acceptable results. For example if you have an 80 mph swing speed and are playing an 8 degree loft driver, or your 7 iron is producing 4000 rpms of spin and you can’t hold greens.

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Find your Shaft,Grip,Lie,Swingweight combo...then buy different sets up for sale ..at a discount,end of season,run out sale etc.I look at Mizuno, in 7,8,9 out of 10 condition,from 2005 to 2013,they have fallen in Value,watch for the Loved older sets....where bought and used twice a year.Have had mp60,63 like this.Stay happy,groove that swing,keep buying,its the WRX way🤠

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I would look beyond the major OEMs. All the DTC companies have some varying form of demo programs (that they send to you, you don't have to go into a golf shop or demo day). I hit the MP-20 MMCs against the New Level 902s, Sub 70 639CB, Ben Hogan Apex, New Level PF-2 and ultimately did not see a huge difference in performance. It all came down to feel, liking how it looked and launch monitor data. Ultimately the MMCs were in the upper half but they were not the best (for me) and were certainly not 2x better than the DTCs though they cost 2-3 times as much as a DTC set. Just a thought for your next "experiment." Best of luck!

 

PS - Hopefully when/if you test these, you can hit off of real grass and see the ball flight outside. I think that is a key for irons and wedges. A must really. 

Edited by blackbdmillsaps
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2 hours ago, morgan1819 said:

I'm not shocked that something didn't unseat the MP20 MMC.  They are fantastic.  What shafts are in them?

 

Based on all of the clubs tested having different shafts, I will say that it's possible you found out more about the shafts, than you did heads.

 

DG120 X100 shafts! They feel and perform very well.  

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11 minutes ago, VanTheMan0519 said:

If you’re like me you’ve been fitted but I swear the swings at my fittings are the complete opposite of how I normally swing on the course. 
 

is their a term for a double crossed fitting lol

 

Ha!  Yeah, the times I have been fitted indoors, it doesn't feel natural at all. For whatever reason. Even outdoors, I am like "I don't normally hit the ball like that!"

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Rather than getting fit, I would recommend demoing clubs. There are better options these days with playability guarantees, used clubs at golf galaxy (they can be returned), demoing clubs in resort areas and DTC brands mostly have a low cost demo option. Nothing is better than playing a few rounds, which is so much better than a few swings. It something I wish I would have done in the past.

Edited by Tanner25
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18 hours ago, Takomo said:

 

Yes, that's correct. The 101 does not have an elastomer filling. 

We did some prototype testing with filled heads, but it did not affect the performance or durability, so we decided not to use it as it would have increased the total cost. We were able to design the interior chamber so that the sound on impact is not high-pitched, and the 101 is not clicky, so we did not need the filling for the acoustics or the feel. 

 

 

Should ship out around end of November! 🙂

 

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After all our exchanges over the last month or so I want to double check a couple items. If I want midsize grips I understand that puts the irons in the non standard category thus a longer wait,how much longer simply for these larger grips or can I get extra wraps of tape under standard grips and stay in standard category? Where’s the best way to order? Is there a specific site you recommend Thanks for your help and patience. Doug

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16 minutes ago, hardten said:

After all our exchanges over the last month or so I want to double check a couple items. If I want midsize grips I understand that puts the irons in the non standard category thus a longer wait,how much longer simply for these larger grips or can I get extra wraps of tape under standard grips and stay in standard category? Where’s the best way to order? Is there a specific site you recommend Thanks for your help and patience. Doug

 

General rule of thumb is that it takes 4+ - 5+ wraps to go from standard to midsized (depending on the grip, and the tape). The "+" means that it is assumed that every grip will have one double-sided wrap by default, just to keep the grip on the shaft. 

 

Slight trouble with using wraps instead of grip sizes. For those that like cords (a stiffer feeling), 5+ wraps can make them feel a little mushy. For those that like softer grips (I do) - Winn Dri-Tacs, etc., wraps will stretch the grip material, at they will wear out even sooner than they usually do. 

 

My own approach to online ordering? I'll order the clubs themselves with a standard grip (with today's supply chain issues, anything non-standard will likely take longer to get). Will buy the grips separately, and have my local Dicks put them on. For wedges I like a medium grip. For irons a standard w/ 2+ wraps - halfway between standard and medium. But I'd never try to order grips with that much nuance online - the order would get put into another category, if they'd even be willing to do it. 

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I have a theory that as long as you like the look at address and the total weight, swing weight is right, it does matter which brand name is stamped on it easpecially for irons…since my OG P790 set many years ago, I had that favorite 7 iron MOI scaled and every store since then had been MOI built my my custom builder, and honestly doesn't even matter what shaft brand/profile (flex and weight is more important I have noticed) as I’ve gone from Modus 130/125/120, SP Orange, PX, PXLZ, PXIO, and TT Elevate and Elevate Tours with out any problems to speak of. 

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The “try it all” approach is one that I take as well. to address some points of inquiry. 
 

1) The only real earth moving thing that happened to me while ho’ing irons is trying a set that was +1/2” and realizing that was my spec instead of all the standard length clubs. 
 

2) In my game, there is still room for that “ahh ha” club in the 4i and 5i spot. Besides that, all the sets I fiddle around with, I’d expect a subtle gain at most. 
 

3) Once you’ve fiddled with enough iron sets, your much more likely the next set will be something you can’t hit at all as opposed to a ground breaking iron. 
 

4) To end on a positive note, woods are a totally different story. While an improvement with irons would be marginal, woods can suit you better by leaps and bounds. Be it finding that perfect driver or hitting that hot, high 3 wood, the room for gain is much greater with woods. 

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10 hours ago, vemuli said:

Well…here is my list. What a waste of time and money 😆. From 2010 to present moment…

 

Cleveland Launcher LP  

Callaway Hawk Eye  

Callaway X-22  

Callaway Hawk Eye VST 

Callaway X-Forged 

Callaway XF Forged  

Nike Pro Forged  

Adams OS 4  

Ping Zing  

Cleveland CG1 Tour 

Adams A4 Forged  

Adams Pro Forged  

Nike VR pro  

Taylor made r9  

Taylor made superlaunch

Wilson Tour fg v2 

Ping G5 

Wilson pi7 

Wilson fluid feel 

Wilson fg17 

Ping g20 

Ping G5 (2.) 

Ping i25 

Cobra baffler 

Cobra pro s3 

Wilson Deep Red II 

Srixon ad403 

Wilson Di11 

Ping S56 

Cobra baffler (2.) 

Adams MB2 

Adams Super S 

Ping G25 

Wilson FG17 (2.) 

Ping Rapture  

Ping S55 

Srixon Z355  

Adams a12 pro 

Wilson Di9 

Ping EYE 2 

Wilson D7 

Ping ie1

Adams Idea XTD

Mizuno T-Zoid EZ comp

Taylormade M2

 

Now in my bag I have Wilson Staff FG17 irons. And occasionally Taylormade M2s

This post makes me feel so much better about my problem 😁

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In the last 10 years i've only learned 3 lessons:

1) never sell an old set that you loved just cause you want something new and shiny, keep them for a while

2) never underestimate the impact of a new shaft fit, can change the whole equation

3) never, NEVER buy a new set of irons without testing at least 1 club of each segment of the set, i'm talking about a short iron, a mid iron and a long iron. I learned that le$$on the hard way

 

Went from x20 tours to mp53, loved and gamed the 53's w/s300 until the shafts felt loose for me, went for a ping fitting cause i want to try iblade's and i200's but just had the 6i of each with a few shafts. End up with the i200 w/modus 120x and pay a lot for them (prices in south america are +30/40% vs usa), when i saw how big the pw and how much offset the 4i has i knew i made a mistake but heck i insist on using them for 2 seasons. My hdcp went from 11 to 18, too much bounce for me and my confidence was gone.

 

Last year i've decide to give the 53's one more chance, first round was a 82 (for a 18 capper back then), went home swap shafts and was like a new honeymoon, modus + mizuno is a match made in heaven and in my opinion, the mp53 felt better than any non blade mizuno current stuff (mp20's are on a different league but still think mp32 were the greatest)

Edited by PanchiCab
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I've had a few sets and have more coming. I have really enjoyed the process and have gotten to own and play some pretty epic irons. Since last September...

 

Nike Vapor Pro Combos

Nike VR Pro Combos

KZG cavity backs 

KZG blades 

Mizuno MP32 

Mizuno MP68 

Byrdie Golf Designs split cavity

 

On order: Takomo 101's and possibly pre ordering Haywood MBs tomorrow (if available).

 

<edit> I have not had the privilege of testing a single iron prior to purchase. 🤣

Edited by lefthack

Taylormade M6 D Type driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Honma XP-1 3 and 5 wood 

Taylormade GAPR Lo 19* Hybrid 

Byrdie Golf Designs split cavity 4-PW

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Haywood 52/10 and 56/12 wedges

Nike Blue Chip 002 putter

Golf Pride Concept Helix grips

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13 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Or are we all far too worried about the tools when we should be working on the skill of the operator? 

But of course!

 

Hot take from a non-ho that sticks with "older" stuff but still likes reading through the hype of new gear and people giving honeymoon and longer term reviews:

 

- Too many variables when trying different irons.  At least keep shaft the same for better head-to-head comparisons..... Use fitted shaft or establish a shaft from trying different ones on the same head.  Same preferred grip of course too.

 

- Ideally build own clubs to make sure shafts, lengths, weights, swingweights start around where the preferred set specs are.  Play with weighting with lead tape and choking up by feel.

 

- Hype of clubs can be real for some, worthless to others.  Feel and getting along with equipment is personal, and trying to find gold through other people's hype can easily turn into wasted money.  Asking myself "what exactly is a new club gonna improve" over an existing club (that does everything I want TBH) is how I justify cheaping out and sticking with the existing ones!

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9 hours ago, VanTheMan0519 said:

 If you’re married can you offer any tips? So far I’m using FesEx “hold at location” for delivery. 

I literally laughed out loud when I read this!! Fantastic!! This thread has opened my eyes to the golf underworld that I haven't experienced in years because I have had the same two sets of irons form 10 and 7 years respectively and only change out woods after I have caved the face in on them because of thousands of strikes.  I will say that for me the most important things for me was finding my total weight and swing weight preferences as this meant that I could basically spec up any club and make it suit my needs.  

 

I keep my two iron sets because they taught me so much about what I like in a club and so now I have a combo set of LH Miura cavity backs and Cleveland 588 Altitude irons and they can't be more polar opposites on the visual appeal scale but they are fit for me and suit my needs and if I was blindfolded I couldn't tell you the difference between the two because I have weighted them up to match my desired spec.  I will also hotmelt a driver, fairway wood, or hybrid into submission also to make them work also!   Before I learned about what I truly like in a golf club I would have been apart of the madness for sure and would have been running through sets of clubs like it's going out of style, but I have found golf equipment stability and only change when a club structurally fails but that is boring so you guys keep it going and reporting back as it was funny to read! 

Edited by Righty to Lefty
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14 hours ago, vemuli said:

Well…here is my list. What a waste of time and money 😆. From 2010 to present moment…

 

Cleveland Launcher LP  

Callaway Hawk Eye  

Callaway X-22  

Callaway Hawk Eye VST 

Callaway X-Forged 

Callaway XF Forged  

Nike Pro Forged  

Adams OS 4  

Ping Zing  

Cleveland CG1 Tour 

Adams A4 Forged  

Adams Pro Forged  

Nike VR pro  

Taylor made r9  

Taylor made superlaunch

Wilson Tour fg v2 

Ping G5 

Wilson pi7 

Wilson fluid feel 

Wilson fg17 

Ping g20 

Ping G5 (2.) 

Ping i25 

Cobra baffler 

Cobra pro s3 

Wilson Deep Red II 

Srixon ad403 

Wilson Di11 

Ping S56 

Cobra baffler (2.) 

Adams MB2 

Adams Super S 

Ping G25 

Wilson FG17 (2.) 

Ping Rapture  

Ping S55 

Srixon Z355  

Adams a12 pro 

Wilson Di9 

Ping EYE 2 

Wilson D7 

Ping ie1

Adams Idea XTD

Mizuno T-Zoid EZ comp

Taylormade M2

 

Now in my bag I have Wilson Staff FG17 irons. And occasionally Taylormade M2s

17s are awesome. Have a set in the bag and a spare set!!

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17 hours ago, VanTheMan0519 said:

 If you’re married can you offer any tips? So far I’m using FesEx “hold at location” for delivery. 

Delivery to the workplace. Discard the packing boxes. Put the new ones to your bag secretly. If the color of the clubs does not change, You will be safe. No woman remembers the brand or model.

 

And flowers always help if the situation gets tough 👍

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