Will be interesting to see what happens to Snell balls after TM acquires Nassau... Taylormade purchases Nassau Ball Company in S Korea? (MERGED)

[monkeyboy]

Hope things turn out OK as they hold a nice niche, IMO.

Edited November 5, 2021 by 1t2golf

[driveandputtmachine]

Just received an email from that other site stating that Taylor Made had purchased Nassau.   I think everyone knows that the TP5 innards are made there and then covers in the South Carolina plant.  Snell and Vice also made balls there from what I have been able to find.

 

Is this the beginning of the end for some of those DTC with high quality?   Will they be forced to smaller plants with lesser QC?  I know Vice has already started using other plants for some new balls.

[chippa13]

It wouldn't be the first time a company was making balls for a competitor.

[willmillar]

Nassau...Home of the infamous Kirkland...interesting.

 

[hwturner17]

Even if Dean has to move his production, he's still a master at what he does. He won't let the quality deteriorate 

[driveandputtmachine]

2 hours ago, chippa13 said:

It wouldn't be the first time a company was making balls for a competitor.

Well I guess it all comes down to materials and availability.  IF they have materials and the the demand doesn't continue to grow like a weed for TM, then those DTC may be alright.  However if materials are a problem, and if demand continues as it is or increases, then there could possibly be an issue.

 

I remember reading that Dean worked for TM for a few years, so as long as people he knows are still there and he left on good terms then his ability over other DTC may actually grow.  If he didn't it could do the opposite.

[tsecor]

Dean Snell is the new TM VP......

 

kidding

[Londo]

2 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Just received an email from that other site stating that Taylor Made had purchased Nassau.   I think everyone knows that the TP5 innards are made there and then covers in the South Carolina plant.  Snell and Vice also made balls there from what I have been able to find.

 

Is this the beginning of the end for some of those DTC with high quality?   Will they be forced to smaller plants with lesser QC?  I know Vice has already started using other plants for some new balls.

Very interesting development, obviously TM will take precedent over those DTC brands at Nassau now but not sure there will be any super tangible effects.

Seems like a move that TM made to ensure competitiveness vs. other top ball makers especially in this chaotic supply chain environment. Price of purchase was worth mitigating the risk of not being able to produce their balls.

[Londo]

28 minutes ago, hwturner17 said:

Even if Dean has to move his production, he's still a master at what he does. He won't let the quality deteriorate 

Don’t think it’s a quality issue, I think that if there is a true shortage, TM will prioritize their production and Snell will either have to find a different producer (a la Vice with their Pro Zero w/Feng Tay) or wait until TM gives them the green light it surlyn is available again 

[mdmack]

I was literally just researching and thinking about trying the Snell blacks just because the price is so good, but I might wait and see how this pans out. I would hate to buy some and really love them then all of a sudden they change. 

[JAM01]

My recollection is that Taylormade was purchased this year by a South Korean investment group, so the purchase of a South Korean ball manufacturer make some sense. 

[GHIN n Juice]

I can’t see TM going out and buying a ball manufacturer to ruin the DTC brands.  They simply don’t hold enough of a market share to worry TM.  More likely it makes sense to their bottom line to control the whole process so they bought the only outside section of production.

Edited November 4, 2021 by GHIN n Juice

[GHIN n Juice]

I imagine they will keep making the Snell balls.  The only difference is that now TM will make money on the process.  

[hammergolf]

15 minutes ago, GHIN n Juice said:

I imagine they will keep making the Snell balls.  The only difference is that now TM will make money on the process.  

Yeah don’t see much changing. 

[hammergolf]

8 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Just received an email from that other site stating that Taylor Made had purchased Nassau.   I think everyone knows that the TP5 innards are made there and then covers in the South Carolina plant.  Snell and Vice also made balls there from what I have been able to find.

 

Is this the beginning of the end for some of those DTC with high quality?   Will they be forced to smaller plants with lesser QC?  I know Vice has already started using other plants for some new balls.

I don’t think a lot will change. TM will now get paid for making Snell and Vice. Could also give them the option to tighten QC on their cores.

[grm24]

9 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Just received an email from that other site stating that Taylor Made had purchased Nassau.   I think everyone knows that the TP5 innards are made there and then covers in the South Carolina plant.  Snell and Vice also made balls there from what I have been able to find.

 

Is this the beginning of the end for some of those DTC with high quality?   Will they be forced to smaller plants with lesser QC?  I know Vice has already started using other plants for some new balls.

 

Appears that TM had also purchased Foremost Golf Ltd 3 years ago. So TM has purchased Foremost and Nassau. Interesting.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/11/03/taylormade-nassau-golf-expand-golf-ball-operations/

 

TaylorMade acquired Foremost Golf Ltd three years ago and transformed it into TM Golf Ball Taiwan to complement TM Golf Ball South Carolina. With the purchase of Nassau Golf, TaylorMade is now forming TM Golf Ball Korea.

 

“This acquisition further supports TaylorMade’s strategic plan to create vertical integration in the company’s golf ball supply chain,” said David Abeles, TaylorMade’s chief executive officer. “TM Golf Ball Korea now joins TM Golf Ball Taiwan and TM Golf Ball South Carolina to service the global demand requirements for our rapidly growing golf ball business.”

[dalehead]

4 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Yeah don’t see much changing. 

I see several possibilities. Does Snell have a contract with Nassau that TM will have to honor? If so there will be no change for the duration of the contract.

 

If TM has enough production capacity they may continue the deal with Snell, figuring someone is going to make money supplying Snell, it might as well be them.

 

TM might make an offer to buy Snell as their way of entering the DTC market.

 

The move by TM indicates their intent to become an even big factor in the ball market. If they are successful and production capacity becomes strained Snell and others may get shut out.

 

Finally I don’t think TM will catch up with Titleist until they grow their Tour presence beyond their staff players. They need more ball free agents like Rickie Fowler and Justin Rose playing their ball. Think Brooks, Bryson,  Tony Finau and other Ping staffers, and up and comers on The PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 

[hammergolf]

2 minutes ago, dalehead said:

I see several possibilities. Does Snell have a contract with Nassau that TM will have to honor? If so there will be no change for the duration of the contract.

 

If TM has enough production capacity they may continue the deal with Snell, figuring someone is going to make money supplying Snell, it might as well be them.

 

TM might make an offer to buy Snell as their way of entering the DTC market.

 

The move by TM indicates their intent to become an even big factor in the ball market. If they are successful and production capacity becomes strained Snell and others may get shut out.

 

Finally I don’t think TM will catch up with Titleist until they grow their Tour presence beyond their staff players. They need more ball free agents like Rickie Fowler and Justin Rose playing their ball. Think Brooks, Bryson,  Tony Finau and other Ping staffers, and up and comers on The PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 

It will be interesting to see what they do. Obviously the margins will go up on the TM balls now, but interesting about the possibility of them buying Snell or if the margins make sense for them at the lower price. I agree they need to grow their usage. 

[grm24]

21 minutes ago, dalehead said:

I see several possibilities. Does Snell have a contract with Nassau that TM will have to honor? If so there will be no change for the duration of the contract.

 

If TM has enough production capacity they may continue the deal with Snell, figuring someone is going to make money supplying Snell, it might as well be them.

 

TM might make an offer to buy Snell as their way of entering the DTC market.

Seeing that TM has owned Foremost for 3 years (which currently produces many DTC balls) I would think Snell is fine. With TM owning Foremost, now Nassau and having their own production facility in South Carolina they have plenty of ball producing capacity. I would think material supply is one of the biggest issue with ball manufacturers currently.

 

As for TM doing DTC under their own brand outside of what they already sale under TM branding I don't really see it. Acushnet/Titleist launched their own DTC line with Union Green a short while back. It's hardly ever mentioned here and I'm certain it's the same with the golfing public. They offer two piece and three piece surlyn covered balls. One budget priced and the other not so much. Wouldn't be surprised if Union Green just quietly disappears.

[xkilgorextroutx]

13 hours ago, GHIN n Juice said:

I imagine they will keep making the Snell balls.  The only difference is that now TM will make money on the process.  

 

That was pretty much my thought as well.

[Bad9]

A couple posters have mentioned it but why TM buy Snell?

[driveandputtmachine]

15 hours ago, grm24 said:

 

Appears that TM had also purchased Foremost Golf Ltd 3 years ago. So TM has purchased Foremost and Nassau. Interesting.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/11/03/taylormade-nassau-golf-expand-golf-ball-operations/

 

TaylorMade acquired Foremost Golf Ltd three years ago and transformed it into TM Golf Ball Taiwan to complement TM Golf Ball South Carolina. With the purchase of Nassau Golf, TaylorMade is now forming TM Golf Ball Korea.

 

“This acquisition further supports TaylorMade’s strategic plan to create vertical integration in the company’s golf ball supply chain,” said David Abeles, TaylorMade’s chief executive officer. “TM Golf Ball Korea now joins TM Golf Ball Taiwan and TM Golf Ball South Carolina to service the global demand requirements for our rapidly growing golf ball business.”

I do not believe Foremost produces any part of the TP balls for TM, so buying Foremost and buying Nassau are not the same.  Nassau builds the cores for TM balls and the SC plant does the cover.  So in a shortage of surlyn TM balls could be given priority at Nassau plant.  However all of this is moot if the contract between Snell and Nassau includes provisions for the Nassau being purchased and require percentage of plant time or materials dedicated to Snell no matter who owns the plant.

 

Also Foremost may have started making parts of the TP balls for TM, or may make only lower end TM balls, I have no idea.  Last I heard as of a year or more ago Nassau still made most of the innards for the TP balls, so unless that changed and Foremost started making them(which considering the change in the current TP balls maybe they did take over some of that part), who knows what could happen.

 

What we do know is things will change, whether good or bad for us (consumers) is still up in the air.  DTC is good for consumers, however if TP balls cannot keep the factory running all the time, then DTC will be allowed.  The enemy of any factory is machines not running.

[Londo]

47 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

A couple posters have mentioned it but why TM buy Snell?

I agree with this, I would be really surprised if TM bought Snell. Really no benefit to TM unless Dean is looking to get out of the game and they get a nice deal. No benefit to Dean unless they offer him an insane price with a cushy position going forward. Don't really see either of those happening, it would be different if Snell had some sort of ball tech/patents that TM really needed but thats not the case.  

[storm319]

8 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I do not believe Foremost produces any part of the TP balls for TM, so buying Foremost and buying Nassau are not the same.  Nassau builds the cores for TM balls and the SC plant does the cover.  So in a shortage of surlyn TM balls could be given priority at Nassau plant.  However all of this is moot if the contract between Snell and Nassau includes provisions for the Nassau being purchased and require percentage of plant time or materials dedicated to Snell no matter who owns the plant.

 

Also Foremost may have started making parts of the TP balls for TM, or may make only lower end TM balls, I have no idea.  Last I heard as of a year or more ago Nassau still made most of the innards for the TP balls, so unless that changed and Foremost started making them(which considering the change in the current TP balls maybe they did take over some of that part), who knows what could happen.

 

What we do know is things will change, whether good or bad for us (consumers) is still up in the air.  DTC is good for consumers, however if TP balls cannot keep the factory running all the time, then DTC will be allowed.  The enemy of any factory is machines not running.

Nassau was producing the core/mantle assemblies for TMs urethane models exclusively from the mid-2000’s until 2019. TM has used Nassau, Foremost, and SM Parker/Fantom for their ionomer ball production at various times and/or for specific models. Following the TM/Foremost joint venture in 2019, TM had been moving some production over to Foremost I believe with the intention of leaving Nassau long term. I am sure TMs ownership change and this acquisition will change that plan.
 

It will be interesting to see if they retain their investment in Foremost or if they decide to close the South Carolina facility and shift the remainder of production to these offshore facilities. Ultimately they now have full or majority control over the two largest white label ball factories in the world (and only ones that have cast thermoset urethane capabilities) which I imagine will have industry implications in some way shape or form.

Edited November 5, 2021 by storm319

[cardigan]

 

On 11/3/2021 at 8:19 PM, grm24 said:

 

Appears that TM had also purchased Foremost Golf Ltd 3 years ago. So TM has purchased Foremost and Nassau. Interesting.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/11/03/taylormade-nassau-golf-expand-golf-ball-operations/

 

TaylorMade acquired Foremost Golf Ltd three years ago and transformed it into TM Golf Ball Taiwan to complement TM Golf Ball South Carolina. With the purchase of Nassau Golf, TaylorMade is now forming TM Golf Ball Korea.

 

“This acquisition further supports TaylorMade’s strategic plan to create vertical integration in the company’s golf ball supply chain,” said David Abeles, TaylorMade’s chief executive officer. “TM Golf Ball Korea now joins TM Golf Ball Taiwan and TM Golf Ball South Carolina to service the global demand requirements for our rapidly growing golf ball business.”

The TM site describes the Foremost relationship quite differently in their press release.  They call TM Golf Ball Taiwan a "joint venture" between Taylormade and Foremost.  "To me" this sounds like it is separate from Foremost's other business and that TM doesn't completely own it.  Maybe a dedicated facility for TM related manufacturing that's separate from other facilities.  I don't know.  In any case, I assume that they are trying to be legally accurate in their press release which is something that golf news websites and forums don't really have to do.

 

https://newsroom.taylormadegolf.com/en-CA/204041-taylormade-golf-acquires-nassau-golf-co-ltd

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by cardigan

[mvhoffman]

Frankly, none of us know what is going to happen.  As soon as I saw the posting about this I went and bought 4 Dozen K-Sig balls.

[Drewhill44]

Dean has a history with TM when he worked for them and designed their golf balls when TM entered the ball market.  The Tour Preferred Red and Black are arguably some of TM best golf balls, which were designed by Dean.  I would expect nothing would hopefully change in regards to Snell golf balls being produced.  

[dalehead]

13 hours ago, Bad9 said:

A couple posters have mentioned it but why TM buy Snell?

To dominate the DTC space. If TM believes DTC is a growth area, that would be a good way to get into it. They acquire what is arguably the most successful DTC brand, then use their dominant manufacturing position to choke off the competition. “Sorry, but our production capacity is at its limit. We won’t be able to fill any orders for you for the next 3 months. Check back with us after that.”

 

But you say  “Why would they cannibalize their TM ball sales by acquiring Snell?” Well, some of Snell’s market share has already come from TM. By acquiring Snell TM keeps that revenue coming into there coffers.

 

Now I admit it’s a long shot. Really depends on TM’s evaluation of the DTC space. If they believe it is here to stay and will be a big growth area, then maybe…

[cardigan]

6 hours ago, dalehead said:

To dominate the DTC space. If TM believes DTC is a growth area, that would be a good way to get into it. They acquire what is arguably the most successful DTC brand, then use their dominant manufacturing position to choke off the competition. “Sorry, but our production capacity is at its limit. We won’t be able to fill any orders for you for the next 3 months. Check back with us after that.”

 

But you say  “Why would they cannibalize their TM ball sales by acquiring Snell?” Well, some of Snell’s market share has already come from TM. By acquiring Snell TM keeps that revenue coming into there coffers.

 

Now I admit it’s a long shot. Really depends on TM’s evaluation of the DTC space. If they believe it is here to stay and will be a big growth area, then maybe…

I don't think that it would happen.  It would be one thing if Snell was a niche lifestyle brand that didn't claim to be a tour level ball but it's not.  Snell claims that their balls are as good as, if not better than, the OEM balls at a fraction of the price with Dean Snell's experience in the industry giving them serious credibility.  They are basically saying that OEM balls are overpriced.  I don't see how TM could bring them in house without somehow addressing that.  I don't see them lowering the prices on their premium balls or having Snell say that Snell balls aren't really as good as TM premium balls.  As for the DTC market as a whole, I don't know the numbers for any of them but I doubt that the revenue of any of the DTC companies is enough to get the OEM's to want to think about acquiring them.  Vice might be an exception but again, an OEM purchasing them would probably tell them to keep it up with the lifestyle marketing stuff and chill out on the "design and engineering" and "as good as the big boys" stuff.

Edited November 5, 2021 by cardigan

[willmillar]

Foremost also makes the Maxfli Tour for Dick's Sporting Goods.  TM has several markets covered with these deals.