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Driver lie angle


Trap Junior
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10 minutes ago, HISPL said:


Dynamic lie angle isn’t equivalent to swing plane at all,

 

Exactly, yet you keep making statements and calculations that imply that it is:

 

10 minutes ago, HISPL said:

If we take the value for shaft droop as 4 degrees, with a 44 degree swing plane and a driver lie angle of day 58 degrees this means that the driver lie is 10 degrees too upright

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, HISPL said:

Lexie and Curtis Thompson have about 40mm of shaft droop that roughly equates to 2 degrees.

 

That's much more inline with what I've seen in the data I've looked through.  Not the 4* or 6* or 7* numbers I've seen so far in this thread.

 

 

10 minutes ago, HISPL said:

What influences this is “hand height” and how fast a player is swinging the club, if either one of these (or both) is higher, the resulting shaft droop will also be higher relatively speaking.

 

It's not just swing speed, but swing speed relative to the shaft stiffness profile.   And how the mechanics influence the shaft droop is a LOT more complicated than that.   Enough that one shouldn't really be making assumptions based on hand height - at least not w/o a lot of corroborating data to support the claim.

 

 

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Interesting discussion since I have been gone!

 

Personally I dont buy that lie angle is not important with driver.   Face plane tilt will still occur surely and on a loft of 8 or 9 degrees I think thats plenty to throw it off somewhat.

 

For example I played with a SIM driver there last year.  It had a flatter lie angle and more weight on the toe than I am used to and I couldn't stop it going right until I made it more upright.

 

I understand trackman fairly well but only used it for swing analysis.  Been getting into trying to understand dynamic lie for fine tuning my equipment.

 

I saw a video on AMG about the big guy who had a pull hook and his shaft was deflecting at impact as measured on Gears and he reckoned that was the main cause of his problem.  I have no access to Gears nor would have any idea how much droop and deflection is acceptable.

 

P.S. my current driver is a 910 D3

 

 

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6 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Exactly, yet you keep making statements and calculations that imply that it is:

 

 

 

 

 

That's much more inline with what I've seen in the data I've looked through.  Not the 4* or 6* or 7* numbers I've seen so far in this thread.

 

 

 

It's not just swing speed, but swing speed relative to the shaft stiffness profile.   And how the mechanics influence the shaft droop is a LOT more complicated than that.   Enough that one shouldn't really be making assumptions based on hand height - at least not w/o a lot of corroborating data to support the claim.

 

 


Wow, way to go for taking snippets of my posts out of context to be able to support your position…

 

It seems that you have this fixation that swing plane and shaft droop don’t equal dynamic lie… if that is the case what does?

 

Higher levels of shaft droop are entirely possible with softer shaft profiles, higher hand position and higher swing speed aka more load on the shaft.

Some players need a softer profile even at higher swing speeds so that their transition/timing isn’t thrown out.

 

Strangely though, even though you can’t seem to actually add any corroborating data yourself, the theory presented seems to have made sense to @Trap Junior and the information he has come across from the guys at AMG seems to support this…

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On 11/10/2021 at 1:10 PM, Trap Junior said:

On Trackman my dynamic lie with driver is 50 degrees.  Is this unusual?  I looked up Titleist.  Their stock lie angle is 58 degrees.  My bad shot is a pull draw/hook.

 

Could the lie angle be causing it? 

It's possible but 58' is NOT exactly upright.  Before adjustable sleeves, most driver lie angles were stock at 56/57'.  The length of your driver, its loft and how high you tee the ball can mess with left.

 

My TS2 lie is 58.5 stock, sleeve adjustment can affect that up or flat.  Mine is set to A4 which maintains standard lie angle.  I tee the ball rather high too, so my swing tends to flatten, resulting in straight bullets and medium trajectory.  

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12 hours ago, HISPL said:


Wow, way to go for taking snippets of my posts out of context to be able to support your position…

 

It seems that you have this fixation that swing plane and shaft droop don’t equal dynamic lie… if that is the case what does?

 

That was the whole context I saw - and only one of a couple different examples.   Exactly how was it out of context?   If there was something missing, feel free to fill in the missing blanks.

 

Why do you feel the need to define it through any calculation?   If you want to know what the dynamic lie angle is, measure it directly.  It's easy and simple to do with just a dry erase marker.   And it doesn't rely on anyone's arbitrary definition of "swing plane" - much less their ability to measure it accurately.

 

Actually, it's really all about the accuracy or reliability of the OP's reported TM numbers.   It's not the first time I've seen such extreme reports from posters that could not be validated by other means (including ball flight results).  

 

And on a side note,  I haven't even been able to find any accuracy data from TM on their devices ability to measure lie angle or much info on how exactly they measure or calculate it.   They seem to have a lot out there on the accuracy of the other numbers, but nothing on that particular reading - at least that I've found so far.  It could be out there.

 

 

12 hours ago, HISPL said:

Higher levels of shaft droop are entirely possible with softer shaft profiles, higher hand position and higher swing speed aka more load on the shaft.

 

The subject of the discussion was not about what's "possible".   If you look hard enough of course you can find extreme cases or force someone into it with poor fitting choices.   The discussion was about what is typical or "not unusual"  or "reasonable to expect."

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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