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S flex vs X Flex


PhillipG78
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3 hours ago, PhillipG78 said:

Does anyone in here actually see or feel a difference between S and X flex? I've seen a lot of videos where it showed little to no difference for 99% of golfers. How much different in flex does it gotta be before you notice a difference?

Isn’t one companies S different than an other?  As to there is no standardization? 
 

It’s hard to find X shafts in vintage.   But I have trouble telling the difference between my Dynapowers with R or S shafts.   And those are from the same maker!

 

 

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On 11/11/2021 at 7:12 PM, PhillipG78 said:

Does anyone in here actually see or feel a difference between S and X flex? I've seen a lot of videos where it showed little to no difference for 99% of golfers. How much different in flex does it gotta be before you notice a difference?

Lots of videos where it does.

 

In general, big difference for me and there are significant differences among many S's.

 

Get out there and hit some!

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Countdown to The Masters has begun!

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On 11/11/2021 at 7:12 PM, PhillipG78 said:

Does anyone in here actually see or feel a difference between S and X flex? I've seen a lot of videos where it showed little to no difference for 99% of golfers. How much different in flex does it gotta be before you notice a difference?

 

Its always made a big difference to me.  In fact, first driver I could hit worth a damm had a 2X shaft.  In my case, its about shaft load, not so much the speed; my transition used to be on the hard side.

 

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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On 11/11/2021 at 11:25 PM, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Isn’t one companies S different than an other?  As to there is no standardization? 
 

It’s hard to find X shafts in vintage.   But I have trouble telling the difference between my Dynapowers with R or S shafts.   And those are from the same maker!

 

 

Remember one thing on vintage shafts especially Pro Pel and Brunswick--- They are heavier and have thicker walls at the tip and all through the shaft. Even older DGs have thicker walls. They load differently than modern steel shafts. With the advances in metals and such the more modern shafts are capable of different shaft profiles. And remember in the vintage days not as much was known about shaft loading and tip flex etc and shaft QC was not nearly the same for the same reason knowledge. Now this is just me and may not be true but I always found Wilson Dynapower shafts to be stiffer and harsh. IMHO again I think Ben Hogan and his engineers knew something about shafts in those days no one else knew. The Machogan conversion is nothing new quite a few players had Apex shafts switched into Macgregor Wilson and Spalding clubs. Honestly I had thought prior to my involvement on WRX that the Apex conversion thing was a Carolinas thing but have found out different. 

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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On 11/11/2021 at 9:25 PM, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Isn’t one companies S different than an other?  As to there is no standardization? 
 

It’s hard to find X shafts in vintage.   But I have trouble telling the difference between my Dynapowers with R or S shafts.   And those are from the same maker!

 

 

I don't remember X shafts growing up in the 70's. I've never hit apex5's, never even seen them. Only semi vintage X shafts I have are in a set of Maxfli made in Australia irons that are too nice for me to hit just to decide if they are too stiff for me or not. I'm sure they are.

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Do not know if my eyes are playing tricks on me but on your Maxflis seems to me they have a longer hosel--- Longer hosel clubs seem to have stiffer tips too or it seems that way to me

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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Everything I thought I knew about flex and how it affected the way I hit my driver went out the window when I tried out an Autoflex shaft.  It's whippy as a fishing pole but has given me a solid 4-6mph swing speed increase which has boosted my distance beyond anything I've had in quite some time.  It has me wondering if another shaft brand that would play just as soft would have the same effect or is there just something unique about this shaft?  Has flex been in my head this whole time or could I really use any flex in any club?  It's a strange consideration I haven't really tried or made before.

 

I crush the driver with this very soft shaft but also still hit my 3 wood really well which is shafted with a Mitsubishi Ahina 70 S which is pretty stout for a stiff flex.  The 3 wood now feels like I'm swinging a XXX flex compared to the Autoflex.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

Do not know if my eyes are playing tricks on me but on your Maxflis seems to me they have a longer hosel--- Longer hosel clubs seem to have stiffer tips too or it seems that way to me

 

Hadn't really thought about it, but now that you mention it, they do look a little longer. Just measured, 2 3/4 inches. I'll be!

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7 hours ago, 03trdblack said:

Everything I thought I knew about flex and how it affected the way I hit my driver went out the window when I tried out an Autoflex shaft.  It's whippy as a fishing pole but has given me a solid 4-6mph swing speed increase which has boosted my distance beyond anything I've had in quite some time.  It has me wondering if another shaft brand that would play just as soft would have the same effect or is there just something unique about this shaft?  Has flex been in my head this whole time or could I really use any flex in any club?  It's a strange consideration I haven't really tried or made before.

 

I crush the driver with this very soft shaft but also still hit my 3 wood really well which is shafted with a Mitsubishi Ahina 70 S which is pretty stout for a stiff flex.  The 3 wood now feels like I'm swinging a XXX flex compared to the Autoflex.  

 

 

Sounds like you have found the perfect shaft for you--- I am not saying brand or flex but the ONE shaft that does good for you--- When You go to messing with shafts on a frecquency machine it can be interesting with the numbers and this can be with any brand the numbers and flex points can vary a lot. Also paticular heads and weights can affect how a shaft loads and kicks. Good example--- A few years back I had a Hogan CSS driver nothing special with the Stock Aldila NVS green shaft. It was one of several we got at the shop brand new when Callaway bought Hogan and dumped a lot of Hogan branded stuff on the market. Man I could hit that thing. My bud and I got to messing with a Wishon Driver setting it up for me ( he was a Wishon dealer) We actually went through like 15 new AVS shafts trying to get the same numbers as I had with the Hogan. Never could match up. He wanted to go further and pull the Hogan apart and check. I would not let him do that because the Hogan hit so good, We did guestimate the weight of the Hogan head verus the Wishon and other such things. Finally we put a UST 65 Gold in the Wishon and it was a rocket--- In all fairness the 65 Gold was my go to shaft anyhow--- Fast forward I still have my 65 Gold regular in my 7 wood. What is funny I found a V-Steel 3 wood on the scrap pile a few years ago and it has a NVS green in it 65 R--- I did not build this club and for some reason it is perfect for me. And someone at some stage built it because it is 1 degree strong and I can see the bend marks on the short hosel and it checks out as 14*. I can hit that thing and a man of 64 fat with a bad back is not supposed to hit a 3 wood like that. I have tried other 3 woods at around 15* 16* with senior shafts and can not hit it like I can the old V-Steel. With all the knowledge and engineering these days some things can not be explained---- Sounds like you have found a perfect driver combo for you---- What can be funny and perplexing is you may find a FW that works like that for you ( I hope so) that may be a different brand head and shaft all together. I have basically gotten away from the high tech stuff and went back old school feel.

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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I think there is so much variability in swing sequence, load factor etc that its impossible to discern what is right or right without fitting / trial and error. Personally, I can 100% feel the difference between flexes but more specifically a S300 vs X100 (my stock shaft is X100). As example I tested a Nippon 120x and that was softer than S300 as its a different CPM and profile. That said, many players have the opposite effect ie slow swing speed doing better stiffer and vice versa. 

 

Personally, I play my shafts +0.5 inch so they feel a touch softer but I like a heavy, stiff shaft feel (not light and stout like a C Taper for example - cant hit that to save my life). In my woods I also prefer slightly heavier and stiffer... personal preference as it allows me to feel like I can release it hard. I also have a fastish transition in my swing... End of the day if you can hit launch, spin and dispersion numbers then take the decal off the shaft! Nobody needs to know, just take their money!

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Cobra SZ Driver, Fujikura Pro Blue 73, X

Cobra Fly Z Fairway, UST Elements Fire, 7F5 

Cobra Fly Z Hybrid, Aldila Tour Blue ATX85H 2.3-X

Mizuno MP5 4-PW, True Temper X100

Cleveland RTX 3 50, 54, 60

Odyssey DFX Double Wide / Ping G2 Anser

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17 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

I think there is so much variability in swing sequence, load factor etc that its impossible to discern what is right or right without fitting / trial and error. Personally, I can 100% feel the difference between flexes but more specifically a S300 vs X100 (my stock shaft is X100). As example I tested a Nippon 120x and that was softer than S300 as its a different CPM and profile. That said, many players have the opposite effect ie slow swing speed doing better stiffer and vice versa. 

 

Personally, I play my shafts +0.5 inch so they feel a touch softer but I like a heavy, stiff shaft feel (not light and stout like a C Taper for example - cant hit that to save my life). In my woods I also prefer slightly heavier and stiffer... personal preference as it allows me to feel like I can release it hard. I also have a fastish transition in my swing... End of the day if you can hit launch, spin and dispersion numbers then take the decal off the shaft! Nobody needs to know, just take their money!

Agree on what a shaft label says or does not say--- LOL I have enough shaft bands I can fix you up with any "shaft" you want as long as it is 10 years old or more. LOL for a while around here no joke we had some guys that were making and selling DG Tour Issue bootleg stickers; In fact I reported them to TT and they knew about it. Since then I have ran into some bootleg clubs with those stickers and the shafts were not even TT shafts. And I take it you are like me have a sense of feel and fit accordingly for yourself---- I have proved it many times on a CPM machine never trust a shaft band. Also especially on 370 steel shafts it depends on how it was tipped. Had one of my customers that was out of town and broke his 7 iron ( threw it temper tantrum). He had a big box store install a new shaft. He came in the shop and told me it did not hit the same more like a marshmellow. I could look at it and tell by the section length. It had never been tipped period. It was simply installed and butt cut to length. Of course I pulled it and shivered, The tip had not been roughed at all. He did say he only hit it a couple of times and I told him good thing because it could have came off and killed someone. Do not know if the person that installed it was not properly trained or just did not give a crap.

 

LOL You guys will get a kick out of this--- Back in the day I used to switch shaft bands on my clubs to mess with people. I was actually hitting a set of S-400s and had Ladies Flex Spalding Shaft bands on them and LOL again they were Macgregor FC-4000s--- The cat got let out of the bag when one of the guys went to a local shop ( the guy I got the bands from) and wanted a set of ladies Spalding shafts installed in a set of Wilson Staffs. The shop owner called and apologized to me for doing that but interjected that in good concience he could not see a guy mess up a perfectly good set of Wilson Staffs like that. Which it worked in my favor when I started messing with the Apex shafts in my Macs. Everyone just assumed I was messing with them again. I call it Psyc Ops

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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  • 1 month later...

i only notice with driver. Irons i cannot tell a difference 

Callaway Epic Max LS Mitsubishi MMT 70 X

Titleist Tsi2 3 Wood Tensei Raw White 75 S

Mizuno HMB 2 Iron Tour AD DI-95 Hybrid S

Mizuno 921 Forged 4-P DG S300

SM6 50, Project X Rifle 6.0

SM8 54, DG S200 Wedge Flex

SM7 58, DG S200 Wedge Flex

Odyssey White Hot #5

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