Store line vs. Pro line

[Woodridge]

I've been thinking about this topic for a while. I believe that most senior members/serious collectors focus exclusively on Pro line vintage clubs. I find though that some people who are new to collecting often end up picking up Store line clubs and being excited about their find. Often, a senior or more knowledgeable member here will gently mention that a particular model is a store line model ( often less expensive and less desired). On Facebook, some of the folks use much less finesse in addressing store line models. That said, some of those posting are looking for their value and wanting to sell them. So, of course their inquiries should be addressed honestly.

 

I believe that one of the most important aspects of the 'Classic' forums is the education that one can get simply by reading the posts. My goodness, we have Tad Moore and Charley Penna posting here. Plus, so many educated collectors...too many for me to name and not forget someone.

 

Back to the topic...Perhaps there are store line clubs that are collectable or of a quality that makes them as valuable as some Pro Line models. If so, please educate me. I can see where some folks might want to collect as many Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino models.....as possible and that would lead them down the store line path eventually. Or they have a favorite player from the 1950s, 60s or 70s whose autograph model was only a store line club. I myself started with Ram Dave Hill's as pre-teen and graduated to MacGregor MT's as I got older. But, I dare say that there was a lot of golf, probably a lot of good golf played with store line clubs back in the day. Most of us of a certain vintage started with Store Line models.

 

Finally, my definition of each...which I would love to be corrected on, if I am wrong.

 

Pro Line= Ordered or purchased through a golf pro, at your local golf course or country club. Also, ordered via companies such as Edwin Watts.

 

Store Line= Purchased via Sears Roebuck, JC Penney, local sporting goods stores.

 

 

Looking forward to what everyone thinks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen8802]

I think this is a fascinating topic. I agree with you definitions, and would add a third category, second tier pro line. They are listed in the back of Kaplan as either mid grade or low grade shafts, and come with names like Souchak, Demaret, and Nelson instead of Armour, MT, and Penna. I also agree with your assessment of Facebook answers...those folks can be rude. To make it worse, many of the people with rude responses really don't know what they are talking about. That seems to be the FaceBook way across the board, opinion is worth as much as knowledge or fact.

 

My take is mostly traditional; I have so much pro line persimmon, and so little room for more, that I leave store line behind when I see it at thrifts. They can be decent heads, but I just think there is too much top-level stuff available to buy the store line clubs.

 

Where I differ is that I like second tier pro line stuff much more than most of my fellow collectors. I have found some great looking heads with names other than the big ones. My Souchak and Demaret fairway woods are model 40 heads and look great. The drivers on those sets have great shapes that I'm happy to have. If I could only have one or two sets, I'd pick the classics, but I can have as much as I can fit in my office and basement, and it turns out I really enjoy my second-tier clubs. I'm not crazy about the shafts, but those I can replace.

 

The other category that is interesting to me, beyond classic Macs, are 80s/90s brands, especially the ones I couldn't afford when I was a kid; for me, that includes clubs like Honma, Cleveland, and Palmer Peerless. Pro level clubs, but not 693 level clubs. Except I like them just as much, hit them just as well (if not better), and can find them for pennies on the dollar, refinish them in half the time, and have beautiful clubs that stroke the ball long and straight.

 

But, to answer your question, buy and play what makes you happy. Collecting and playing persimmon is an irrational hobby. If we had more sense than romance, we would be buying and collecting the most technologically advanced clubs we can find. I go nuts when I find a Byron Nelson and I'm as happy as when I find a 693. I love my Coors ceramic putters, or my IronMasters, even if they aren't Geo. Lowes or DBAPs. And the day I found my set of Souchaks I was as happy as the day I found my first Velocitized. If you want to make money, stick with the big names; if you want to have fun and enjoy your clubs, buy what ever makes you smile.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Stephen8802

[Jiggered]

Here in the UK and things were slightly different in that as far as I know there wasn't a "Pro-Line" as such, there were better clubs and budget clubs.

 

But I agree with you when it comes to "named" clubs, here in the UK these generally start out as top of the line when the star golfer signs with the club maker but then slip down the pecking order with subsequent models as the golfer's fame declines.  Dunlop Peter Thomson irons would be a good example of this, top quality for the "Mark 1" but gradually dipping to a budget club as the design progressed over the years.

 

I have a soft spot for the "Store-Line" clubs, and I'm a bad enough golfer for it to make little or no difference to my score whether I'm playing Pro-Line or Store-Line.

The very fact that they're disregarded by most makes them more interesting to me.

 

As great as they are, I get bored seeing pictures of the same old Pro-Line clubs. When a Store-Line set appears my attention is caught and they can be much rarer due to the fact that nobody saved them.

 

 

On that note, here's a couple of "Store-Line" equivalent sets from the UK:

 

Harold Bird "Thunderbird" circa 1960.

 

 

 

McGhie "Tiger Tee" 1970s

From period magazines, I think that these were the cheapest clubs in the UK at the time.

 

[Woodridge]

Great responses. Exactly the kind of conversation I had hope for. Another one of the reasons that I started thinking about this was that the major companies today don't seem to offer a 'Store Line' model, unless we're talking about Dick's Sporting goods Top Flight brand. Golfsmith used to fill that role, but since being bought out by Golf Galaxy, MacGregor and their other house brands have gone by the wayside. What's a new golfer to do other than buy used?

 

I did see these two companies and they seem like they fit a need in the modern era for entry level clubs.

 

https://stix.golf/

 

https://robingolf.com/products/men

 

Looking forward to hear more thoughts.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

4 hours ago, Woodridge said:

Great responses. Exactly the kind of conversation I had hope for. Another one of the reasons that I started thinking about this was that the major companies today don't seem to offer a 'Store Line' model, unless we're talking about Dick's Sporting goods Top Flight brand. Golfsmith used to fill that role, but since being bought out by Golf Galaxy, MacGregor and their other house brands have gone by the wayside. What's a new golfer to do other than buy used?

 

I did see these two companies and they seem like they fit a need in the modern era for entry level clubs.

 

https://stix.golf/

 

https://robingolf.com/products/men

 

Looking forward to hear more thoughts.

 

Interesting thread topic and, as usual here, great replies.

 

On the subject of major companies today and store-line models, my local Costco has some Callaway sets that I think are equivalent to the old Store-line. I'm sure Callaway isn't the only one that offers sets like these.

 

Perhaps a modern equivalent of store models in terms of pricing is the Direct To Consumer model? 

[Jiggered]

Talking of Stix, there used to be a brand in the UK who used that name, owned by the Kilbryde Golf Manufacturing Co. They had a few ranges but most were like the early Ping Karsten irons.

Below are the CF 17.4, the SM 77 and the SM 80.

 

 

And below is their offering from the low profile boom, they also did a blade but I've not been able to find a picture of that one.

 

 

[Joe S]

Unless you find something really rare, in near mint condition, none of these classic clubs that we collect are selling for a lot of money.  Nobody's getting rich because they found a set of CF4000's at Goodwill instead of some XP70's.  I would say that there are a lot of good store line clubs that are worth having, especially if they are in great condition.  Sam Snead Blue Ridges come to mind.  I sold a nice set for a couple hundred dollars a few years ago.  Now I wish I had kept them.  

[cold_war_era_golfer]

37 minutes ago, Joe S said:

Unless you find something really rare, in near mint condition, none of these classic clubs that we collect are selling for a lot of money.  Nobody's getting rich because they found a set of CF4000's at Goodwill instead of some XP70's.  I would say that there are a lot of good store line clubs that are worth having, especially if they are in great condition.  Sam Snead Blue Ridges come to mind.  I sold a nice set for a couple hundred dollars a few years ago.  Now I wish I had kept them.  

I still consider myself new to golf, July 2020 is when I started at the age of 38.  Sure I golfed a few times as a kid with clubs my dad bought got me at Sportmart but it wasn't until the pandemic messed my life up and I took up golf.  Many of you know from my posts I try to keep 100 percent vintage.  Gear, instruction, etc.  

 

Some of the storeline stuff looks REALLY cool.  But I have to say being able to pickup FC4000s for nothing, because as Joe S said nobody really wants those is pretty cool to me still.  The idea that I can basically have the same clubs everyone on the old clips of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf was playing for a small amount of $$ is really cool.

 

I also don't have room to add storeline to my collection.  Unless I build a wing on the house!

 

[elwhippy]

Save your money. Harold Bird and Stix were bargain basement new. 

[Brewski_golfs]

When I first started collecting I picked up a couple vintage sets of store line clubs just because I thought they looked cool.   Over time as the collection grew and I got more educated on the history of different brands and was able to acquire some really great pro line sets most of the store line clubs were sold off cheaply on eBay.  But I still wouldn’t hesitate to pickup any vintage store line set if I found it appealing.   I recently acquired Spalding Legacy blades, which may have been considered a store line set, and I really enjoy them.  Also just acquired those Mac Hogan 1512 persimmons, which are not mentioned at all in the published books.  Does that mean they are store line clubs?  Don’t know and don’t care because they look like great late 40’s or early 50’s Mac persimmons and I cant wait to get them refinished and on the course.  Vintage golf is a hobby of passion, as was said above nobody is getting rich selling or collecting these clubs (unless you have a secret stash of LFF’s), so collect what you enjoy.  
 

I think there is still a strong  market today for “store line”.  Pretty sure you can still pickup a new set of Wilson Ultra’s at Walmart, and Callaway and Cobra, and maybe others, both offer complete sets with bag and putter included in the $400-$700 range.  
 

One last thought to echo what was said above, these forums are really welcoming and educative, excellent community to discuss golf without all the snarky comments.  

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Between 1973 and 78 Macgregor made and sold DX Tourmasters. They featured in Wishon as frontline clubs but most seem to regard them as in that halfway house. They were classic shaped plain back forged blades with an attractive thin top line, cool ferrules and look great. They were half the price of the Tourneys of that time which were cavity backs and cast. I know, I was young and seduced into buying a set of the Tourneys and I didn't get on with them at all.

Retrospectively I would have looked at the two MacGregor offerings and said it was the Tourneys that were the storeline model.

[BIG STU]

Really all good answers which I say is Par For the course on here with this crowd. As far as playability some store line clubs back in the day were also forged. Also some of the persimmon clubs were good as well. Back in the day I have seen all kinds of players shoot all kinds of scores with all kinds of clubs--- I have seen weekend warriors shoot par or better consistantly with like Sam Snead Blue Ridge or Ram Fastback clubs.

I remember one big time gambler that could putt lights out with an old department store Northwestern blade putter with electricl tape holding the grip on. And this guy did not play $20 Nassaus either he played for thousands--- Doyle Brunson remarked one time that the guy had won enough money with that putter that he could have paid cash for the Northwestern Golf Company from the Ronasco brothers.

 

One of the best sand wedges I ever owned was not a Cleveland or Vokey but a old thick flanged heavy Northwestern "Chico Martinez" Wal Mart Special. I was in Wal Mart one night and picked it up and liked the way it sat and felt. Yep for $10 I took a chance. That thing was great out of those coase clay based traps we had on the courses. But with it being low quality cast it wore out in about a year or 2. Of course those courses and bunkers were rough rough. But it saved my bacon quite a few times and paid for itself many times over.

 

As far as collecting there are 2 types of collectors--- Those that are serious and then guys like me who will try anything that fits their eye--- It is basically what ever floats one's boat.  One of the best 4 woods I ever had was a Spalding Robert T Jones Kro Flite that was store line

[raggal62]

MacGregor had a line of clubs named "Dorado" that ran from the '50s thru the '70s. Possibly the '80s. The latter iron versions being low end cast storeline. But the earlier iron offerings were pretty impressive. They had a "colokrom" set that were beautiful. Forged, fancy ferrules and 2-tone leather wrapped grips. I always wondered if those early Dorado's were pro-line. Anybody know?

[Bigarch]

This is a really good topic.  I'm like most everyone else in that I stick to the pro line stuff.  And I hate when people get rude about it and knock people who pick up store line stuff on the cheap.  If you like the way it looks...buy it and play it.  Who are we/they to burst somebody's bubble?

 

A couple years ago, I picked up a set of store line Wilson Laura Baugh irons that has never been hit.  I just couldn't walk away from all that sparkling chrome for $1 a club.  I'm 6'5 and need to lengthen all of my irons.  But most of the time, that makes them extremely heavy...especially with the old stuff.   I'm REALLY tempted to shaft those Wilson's up and play with them because I know the heads on those women's clubs have to be really light and the swing weights would turn out to be playable.  I just think it would be fun to show up with those in the bag and beat my buddies brains out with them.  Screw it....I'm gonna do it!  Thanks for the inspiration.

[@_the_crook]

For you Stu

[OnTheBag]

Not to jump into a thread where I have no credibility, other than playing during the "classic club" era.  Although they weren't classic then.

 

I played many money rounds with clubs purchased at a sporting goods store.  When I finally bought tour quality clubs, I didn't see the improvement that I thought I would.  By the end of that season, I had a mixed up bag between three sets of varying "quality."

 

I guess the question that a person must ask themselves is why they buying the club.  If buying to play it, then who cares.  If purchasing for a collection or resale value, then I understand your argument.

[mocokid]

On 11/18/2021 at 4:59 AM, BIG STU said:

Really all good answers which I say is Par For the course on here with this crowd. As far as playability some store line clubs back in the day were also forged. Also some of the persimmon clubs were good as well. Back in the day I have seen all kinds of players shoot all kinds of scores with all kinds of clubs--- I have seen weekend warriors shoot par or better consistantly with like Sam Snead Blue Ridge or Ram Fastback clubs.

I remember one big time gambler that could putt lights out with an old department store Northwestern blade putter with electricl tape holding the grip on. And this guy did not play $20 Nassaus either he played for thousands--- Doyle Brunson remarked one time that the guy had won enough money with that putter that he could have paid cash for the Northwestern Golf Company from the Ronasco brothers.

 

One of the best sand wedges I ever owned was not a Cleveland or Vokey but a old thick flanged heavy Northwestern "Chico Martinez" Wal Mart Special. I was in Wal Mart one night and picked it up and liked the way it sat and felt. Yep for $10 I took a chance. That thing was great out of those coase clay based traps we had on the courses. But with it being low quality cast it wore out in about a year or 2. Of course those courses and bunkers were rough rough. But it saved my bacon quite a few times and paid for itself many times over.

 

As far as collecting there are 2 types of collectors--- Those that are serious and then guys like me who will try anything that fits their eye--- It is basically what ever floats one's boat.  One of the best 4 woods I ever had was a Spalding Robert T Jones Kro Flite that was store line

Do you have a Chico's tomahawk putter Stu, somewhere in the club storage bins?

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, mocokid said:

Do you have a Chico's tomahawk putter Stu, somewhere in the club storage bins?

NO in fact that wedge I had was the only club I ever have see with that name on it

[BIG STU]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:52 PM, Bigarch said:

This is a really good topic.  I'm like most everyone else in that I stick to the pro line stuff.  And I hate when people get rude about it and knock people who pick up store line stuff on the cheap.  If you like the way it looks...buy it and play it.  Who are we/they to burst somebody's bubble?

 

A couple years ago, I picked up a set of store line Wilson Laura Baugh irons that has never been hit.  I just couldn't walk away from all that sparkling chrome for $1 a club.  I'm 6'5 and need to lengthen all of my irons.  But most of the time, that makes them extremely heavy...especially with the old stuff.   I'm REALLY tempted to shaft those Wilson's up and play with them because I know the heads on those women's clubs have to be really light and the swing weights would turn out to be playable.  I just think it would be fun to show up with those in the bag and beat my buddies brains out with them.  Screw it....I'm gonna do it!  Thanks for the inspiration.

When you do that bring your big self down here and we will hustle some people--- I got my line down on that already-- Aw come on guys my partner is big and old like me and plays old womens clubs for heavens sake.

On the other hand if you came down do not bring the EYE 2s because all of the guys around here know about a certain contingent of old guys here that play EYE2s and R-7 Quads and they avoid them like the plague--- We would never get a game with those in your bag LOL.

Edited November 20, 2021 by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

7 hours ago, @_the_crook said:

For you Stu

OMG that is it!!!!!

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, JCN said:

Not to jump into a thread where I have no credibility, other than playing during the "classic club" era.  Although they weren't classic then.

 

I played many money rounds with clubs purchased at a sporting goods store.  When I finally bought tour quality clubs, I didn't see the improvement that I thought I would.  By the end of that season, I had a mixed up bag between three sets of varying "quality."

 

I guess the question that a person must ask themselves is why they buying the club.  If buying to play it, then who cares.  If purchasing for a collection or resale value, then I understand your argument.

Tee hee hee--- Had you pulled up with that set up I would have been wary on making a game--- Not because I was intimidated or scared but because I know you know your game and equipment--- Oh trust me we would have done something but I would have been careful--- You know it takes a hustler to know a hustler

 

On the last paragraph I am with you all the way on that--- I can respect those who collect and flip stuff. The fun for me is first off saving a club from destruction and the challenge of seeing if I can hit it. Part of it for me is giving them to someone that would play and love them-- I have done that a lot and then had others do the same for me. 

[OnTheBag]

3 hours ago, BIG STU said:

--- Not because I was intimidated or scared but because I know you know your game and equipment--- Oh trust me we would have done something but I would have been careful--- You know it takes a hustler to know a hustler

 

 

Stu, I'm right there with you.  Hustlers have no brand loyalty.  We play what works.  I used to love to watch those country club kids walk up with their high dollar matched sets and want to put money down.  Made me as happy as a fat kid in a candy store.

[mocokid]

4 hours ago, BIG STU said:

OMG that is it!!!!!

here's the putter, have seen with and without Northwestern brand label. Saw a few in person in my day.  

[@_the_crook]

9 hours ago, BIG STU said:

OMG that is it!!!!!

for the sentimental reason that NW was a local company - I keep a set of Thunderbird irons and that wedge. with PGA woods. all Northern IL based.

how much they contributed to the game. . . before the plated zinc stuff.

 

[Swingingk]

This is a fun and interesting thread.  Like many others here I tend to steer more toward the higher quality pro line product when it comes to vintage just because all the old stuff is inexpensive so I might as well get the best.  That being said I've acquired plenty of store line stuff too as it tends to be more easily found, in better condition, and above all more, um, well...  fancy.  The older store line equipment often has much more "bling" to it than the pro line, to attract market share I would suspect.  More fancy stampings and paintfill, more exciting and colorful ferrules, and more cool looking made-for grips.  Just generally more colorful and exciting to look at.  Sure the grinding is a bit sloppy and the weights are likely off, and the groove stampings are often inconsistent as are the shafts but they sure look good! 

[BIG STU]

17 hours ago, @_the_crook said:

for the sentimental reason that NW was a local company - I keep a set of Thunderbird irons and that wedge. with PGA woods. all Northern IL based.

how much they contributed to the game. . . before the plated zinc stuff.

 

My old man had a Northwestern Deal at the shop too--- Most of the stuff we sold there was Beginner sets which in those days he sold a lot--- I know for a while and this is going to sound whacky but through my old man they had a deal with a local hustler who was not a pushover. He had qualified for the US Open and several PGA events--- He had a beautiful set of Thunderbird forged irons in fact the only set I have seen to this day in person. I also know the Ronasco Brothers were some of his big backers in the annual Vegas Shootout. I did meet Nick one time when I was a young kid and he seemed to be a plesant person and was funny. I do not know who was with him but Nick told the guy that my old man sold more beginner sets than K-Mart

[BIG STU]

22 hours ago, JCN said:

Stu, I'm right there with you.  Hustlers have no brand loyalty.  We play what works.  I used to love to watch those country club kids walk up with their high dollar matched sets and want to put money down.  Made me as happy as a fat kid in a candy store.

Since you are new I will relate to you this. Back in the day when I hustled and played Minis I had an unusal set up on the top of the bag. Some courses I carried that little Kro Flite 4 wood but most of the time it was a little Northwestern 6 wood which in those days itself was an oddity and a Ping Eye2 1 iron. On courses like here at the beach and Florida with lush fairways if needed I could hit my little 10.5 blonde PB driver off the deck. A hustler friend of my old mans carried a 6 wood like that and taught me quite a few tricks with it. I ordered one since my old man handled Northwestern Equipment too. Now days my version of it is the V-Steel 7 wood. I have had and carried that thing for 20 years I know. I was hitting it back when 7 woods were not mainstream and cool.

 

All the regulars and long time members on here know I am probably the most brand agnostic guy on here-- LOL lately though looking at my signature it seems I am a TM fanboy. But that aint the case this stuff seemeed to fall into place and fit in with my needs for now. I know the irons are somewhat an oddity I have been told. A kid played in the shootout yeasterday used to be a asst Pro and TM staffer was playing a set. We sorta know each other and he remarked those irons were unusual and not many people could hit them ( Shrug). One of my long time scramble partners told him you ought to see what I did hit as in Macgregor blades. Which I may be  still hitting if not for steel shafts and vibration. But yes I have always a big proponent of playing what works no matter the brand or company politics involved

[OnTheBag]

17 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Since you are new I will relate to you this. Back in the day when I hustled and played Minis I had an unusal set up on the top of the bag. Some courses I carried that little Kro Flite 4 wood but most of the time it was a little Northwestern 6 wood which in those days itself was an oddity and a Ping Eye2 1 iron. On courses like here at the beach and Florida with lush fairways if needed I could hit my little 10.5 blonde PB driver off the deck. A hustler friend of my old mans carried a 6 wood like that and taught me quite a few tricks with it. I ordered one since my old man handled Northwestern Equipment too. Now days my version of it is the V-Steel 7 wood. I have had and carried that thing for 20 years I know. I was hitting it back when 7 woods were not mainstream and cool.

 

All the regulars and long time members on here know I am probably the most brand agnostic guy on here-- LOL lately though looking at my signature it seems I am a TM fanboy. But that aint the case this stuff seemeed to fall into place and fit in with my needs for now. I know the irons are somewhat an oddity I have been told. A kid played in the shootout yeasterday used to be a asst Pro and TM staffer was playing a set. We sorta know each other and he remarked those irons were unusual and not many people could hit them ( Shrug). One of my long time scramble partners told him you ought to see what I did hit as in Macgregor blades. Which I may be  still hitting if not for steel shafts and vibration. But yes I have always a big proponent of playing what works no matter the brand or company politics involved

Great stuff.  Sounds like we would have had some great rounds together back then. 

 

I remember getting on a good run during the late 80's playing a Mini stretch in the Carolinas.  I had the most jumbled looking bag in history.  MacGregor, Northwestern, Ping, Spaulding.......Anything I could do to put money in my pocket and keep chasing the dream.  I was never good enough to have someone give me money to put their clubs in my bag.  But I had more fun than anyone else.  Slept in my car.  Ate more than a few meals at a soup kitchen.  Even hired on as temporary help for the grounds crew setting up a course for the tournaments.

 

Probably telling that I made more money caddying, than I ever did as a player.    

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, JCN said:

Great stuff.  Sounds like we would have had some great rounds together back then. 

 

I remember getting on a good run during the late 80's playing a Mini stretch in the Carolinas.  I had the most jumbled looking bag in history.  MacGregor, Northwestern, Ping, Spaulding.......Anything I could do to put money in my pocket and keep chasing the dream.  I was never good enough to have someone give me money to put their clubs in my bag.  But I had more fun than anyone else.  Slept in my car.  Ate more than a few meals at a soup kitchen.  Even hired on as temporary help for the grounds crew setting up a course for the tournaments.

 

Probably telling that I made more money caddying, than I ever did as a player.    

I went through basically the same thing in Florida---- Play some go broke take a job at a car dealership turning wrenches--- Later on had my own tractor trailer and leased it out--- Play golf go broke again go back to trucking. LOL some weeks I ate a lot of potted meat and pork and beans. But though when I had money I ate Tin Cup style at the Waffle House. It was fun to me and If I had it to do over I would do it again

[cold_war_era_golfer]

The one with the spades outlining the face was the pro line for 1963-64.  I believe the other to be storeline. Aside from the club icons outlining the face and a different shaft.  I can’t tell much difference.