Don’t Be Surprised When No One Cares

[Johnnypenso]

No Laying Up released a long pod interview with Andy Gardiner from the Premier Golf League. It was really eye opening for me and they seem like a legit group that wants to work with the major tours rather than against them. The team concept really appeals to me along with a lot of the other ideas they discussed. Worth a listen if you're a golf fan.

[jobin]

College All Star football game vs NFL pro champs started long before the Super Bowl.  Began in 1934, played at Soldier Field, Chicago and drew a wide audience.   I went to perhaps 3 of those games around 1960.

 

more here:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_College_All-Star_Game

 

[TM4me]

Rory McIlroy: “People can see it for what it is, a money grab, which is fine if what you’re playing golf for is to make as much money as possible. Totally fine, then go and do that if that’s what makes you happy. I’m just speaking about my own beliefs; I’m playing this game to try to cement my place in history and my legacy and to win major championships and to win the biggest tournaments in the world. I honestly don’t think there’s a better structure in place and I don’t think there will be.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/saudi-golf-league-rory-mcilroy-comments

[bscinstnct]

12 hours ago, Johnnypenso said:

No Laying Up released a long pod interview with Andy Gardiner from the Premier Golf League. It was really eye opening for me and they seem like a legit group that wants to work with the major tours rather than against them. The team concept really appeals to me along with a lot of the other ideas they discussed. Worth a listen if you're a golf fan.

 

Why would the PGA Tour even acknowledge, much less work with, what seems to be a non-entity that’s looking to take their best players out of their events?

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t care who you are. You need this right now.  Happy week before turkey day.  
 

 

 

 

Turkey's can fly.  Least they do when they see me with a 12g in hand. LOL

[ThinkingPlus]

Just now, Pepperturbo said:

Turkey's can fly.  Least they do when they see me with a 12g in hand. LOL

You ain't huntin Butterballs unless you're at the grocery store.  "Oh the humanity!"

[Shilgy]

21 hours ago, jmck said:

To me this is why these alternative, only-in-it-for-the-money tours aren’t going to fly. What’s their plan here? Poach 30 or 40 or 50 big names? By offering them a ridiculous amount of money? And in exchange for that you’ll be more or less owned by the Saudis with all sorts of strings attached down the road…and disinvited from at least three if not all four of the majors plus forget about the Ryder Cup?
 

If I’m one of the big names that’s a hard pass. I’ve already got more in the bank than my grandkids could spend, and I’m out there playing for history, trying to win the four yearly events that actually matter.

 

The dudes most needed to make an alternative tour work are those to whom it appeals the least. 

Not only that….a couple years of missing the majors and big events make a Koepka the subject of a “whatever happened to” documentary on ESPN.  Those big names won’t be so big if all they are able to do is play the new league and are persona non grata on the real stages of professional golf.

[phizzy30]

13 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Possibly, but I'm not really sure about that. Wouldn't underestimate the immense power of the PGA and EU Tours, and the USGA and R&A organizations (which have closed ranks), and their willingness to play hardball - that pretty much control global golf right now. And the force of tradition. 

 

Yes, in the short run the Saudis could put up huge purses - but over time, why? Status? The ego of the House of Saud? (I've done business there, status means a lot, and they have sick money ... a single one of their yachts could fund the entire KF tour for a year - but they also aren't stupid.) They'd lose money. A lot of money. Ego and status only go so far. The size of purses being talked about would never be paid for by broadcast rights - golf is just not that popular in the world. It isn't football or soccer. The numbers don't work.

 

And should the PGA/EU/USGA/R&A circle the wagons and say "choose - us or the Saudis, you play our tours, or theirs" ... yep, the top players could make more money with the SGL, but what if that came at the expense of not being permitted to play in the current majors, or the FEC? And even further, because players need to be invited to play the SGL, they can also be (on a whim, by bearded guys in mumus) disinvited if they have a couple bad years. 

 

Sorry, maybe they can make it work, but I'm just not seeing it. The best in the world have already been invited, but the current info is that all of them have listened, but (I might be wrong) none of them have actually committed. 

 

 

Good points.  Call me greedy, but I'd rather play for and win 5 mil on the SGL rather than 2 mil and claim that I won a major.  I need that yacht, 10 million dollar home, 10 exotic cars, and a private jet, lol.  😂

[Loki]

15 hours ago, jmck said:

The governing bodies that control the qualifications you’re describing can and will change those qualifications. The USGA/R&A can and will back the PGA/European Tour here, no question. 

Possibly, but then the US Open and Open Championship will always be won by a Michael Campbell or Todd Hamilton. We can't have that.

[Pepperturbo]

58 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You ain't huntin Butterballs unless you're at the grocery store.  "Oh the humanity!"

No butterballs, the real gobbler... its a kick.  Better yet, wild pigs with a .44 mag and hot loads.  Lots of yum.

[Tom Servo]

If golf wasn’t as popular as some have suggested you wouldn’t be seeing these competing tours/events/etc cropping up. Its certainly popular enough to have the  big money Saudis jump in the game. 
 

I don’t like the way majors line up now. The entire golf season seems to start at Augusta in April and end after The Open in early July. About 3 months of interesting golf and that’s it. The FedEx Cup doesn’t move the needle for my interest. I’m sure others feel the same so there’s likely a market for other events. 

 

I don’t like the Saudis being involved. They’re buying up professional football about as fast as one entity can and it’s not a good look. They’re abysmal human rights record (against women) is enough to turn off many fans and corporate citizens alike. I’m not a fan of Norman either so that doesn’t win my fandom. 
 

The PGL sounds a tad bit more interesting but who knows. Like many aspects of sports, things are are changing. Just one look at the American college athletic situation with kids now being paid is enough to indicate gigantic changes are here. The Euro tour has responded with a new sponsor and prize money structure, can the PGA do the same?   

[ThinkingPlus]

43 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

No butterballs, the real gobbler... its a kick.  Better yet, wild pigs with a .44 mag and hot loads.  Lots of yum.

No, I quite understand.  It was part of what made that episode funny.  Wild turkeys can fly, but Butterballs not so much.

[TM4me]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

Good points.  Call me greedy, but I'd rather play for and win 5 mil on the SGL rather than 2 mil and claim that I won a major.  I need that yacht, 10 million dollar home, 10 exotic cars, and a private jet, lol.  😂

 

They only want you on their tour if you already have those things.

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, TM4me said:

2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Good points.  Call me greedy, but I'd rather play for and win 5 mil on the SGL rather than 2 mil and claim that I won a major.  I need that yacht, 10 million dollar home, 10 exotic cars, and a private jet, lol.  😂

 

They only want you on their tour if you already have those things.

 

Yes, and there's more. I think the top guys probably wouldn't play precisely because they are greedy. The elite make immensely more money from endorsements than from tourney winnings. Win a major, and your marketability skyrockets. Win two or three, and your tourney purses are a fraction of your total income. (In his peak year, 2009, Tiger's total income was slightly above $100MM - tourney winning accounted for $21MM - a fifth of the total.)

 

And a lot of the best (from Tiger to Koepka) are almost fixated on majors. They plan their entire seasons (each in a different way) around peaking for the majors. (Some don't play tourneys for a week or two prior, others will play the prior week, but on a similar course, etc.) There is simply no way any tournament on the SGL could even remotely approach the stature of Augusta, or The Open. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by bobfoster

[gvogel]

2 hours ago, Loki said:

Possibly, but then the US Open and Open Championship will always be won by a Michael Campbell or Todd Hamilton. We can't have that.

If that's the case, we'll stop paying attention to the US Open and the Open Championship.

 

That would be a shame.  But golf would survive.

[ChillyDipper]

People need to understand the difference between PGL and SGL.  Second the recommendation above to listen to the most recent NLU podcast with Andy Gardiner.

[thesloth]

The structure proposed by the PGL, as outlined by Andy Gardiner on the recent NLU podcast, sounds like a great change. I'm a more avid golf fan than almost anyone I know, and even I only care about the majors and a probably half a dozen top-tier additional events that occur throughout the year. The rest of the PGA schedule is fluff, and outside of a tiny, tiny, portion of fans, no one cares about the seemingly identical individuals that make up the bottom 2/3 of the tour. I maintain you could cut the field to the top 70 every week and that would only make things more interesting, not less. Also, outside of the majors and maybe a handful of top events, the idea of 3 rounds instead of 4 is an excellent idea!

 

The idea of having fewer events, comprised of the top players, in a team format, playing 3 rounds instead of 4 is exciting. It's time for pro golf to evolve.

Edited November 18, 2021 by thesloth

[forrester_fire]

On 11/17/2021 at 3:22 PM, Titleist99 said:

Agreed, plus Networks don't give out big TV contracts if nobody is watching.......

 

People need to speak for themselves and stop trying to speak for the masses....

 

It's not like the networks are laying out billions per season to carry PGA Tour events.  The most recent deal is reportedly worth up to $700 million annually. 

 

Meanwhile, the NBA is looking at $8 billion per year, the NFL got $1.2 billion from Amazon just for the Thursday games (plus the $2b each from NBC and Fox, and the $2.7b from ESPN)

[jmck]

Guys, the PGL isn’t going to fly either, despite the smoke recently blown on a podcast by, uh [checks notes], the CEO of the PGL.

 

Here’s an interview with the same guy from Feb 2020 where he says:

 

1. He hasn’t actually spoken to any actual representatives of any actual current tours, despite his six years of hard and careful work or whatever.

 

2. The PGL is in fact backed by Saudi money. Gotta read all the way to the bottom for that one though, and, funnily enough, that’s the exact opposite of what it currently says in their FAQs.

 

3. The PGL will have a tour up and running by Jan 2022, which is, uh [checks notes], six weeks from tomorrow.

 

The most that’ll come of the PGL is someone like Keith Pelley will steal the bits and pieces he likes and try to make it fly as an occasional add-in to what the current tours currently do, exactly the same as happened with a ‘six hole team league’ in a ‘new and exciting format’ dreamed up by someone not named Keith Pelley.

 

Seriously, read their FAQs. That’s them putting their best possible spin on the state of things, same as on the NLU podcast. Besides from the blatant lie about no Saudi backing, read their FAQs and tell me what their plan is. To get enough big names to commit in advance to a tour which currently doesn’t exist and then take the actual current tours to court to allow it to happen? While the big names leave their fates to endless injunctions and decisions, unsure of their status on any tour while their primes slowly tick away? Good luck with that.

 

 

 

 

[thesloth]

2 hours ago, jmck said:

Guys, the PGL isn’t going to fly either, despite the smoke recently blown on a podcast by, uh [checks notes], the CEO of the PGL.

 

Here’s an interview with the same guy from Feb 2020 where he says:

 

1. He hasn’t actually spoken to any actual representatives of any actual current tours, despite his six years of hard and careful work or whatever.

 

2. The PGL is in fact backed by Saudi money. Gotta read all the way to the bottom for that one though, and, funnily enough, that’s the exact opposite of what it currently says in their FAQs.

 

3. The PGL will have a tour up and running by Jan 2022, which is, uh [checks notes], six weeks from tomorrow.

 

The most that’ll come of the PGL is someone like Keith Pelley will steal the bits and pieces he likes and try to make it fly as an occasional add-in to what the current tours currently do, exactly the same as happened with a ‘six hole team league’ in a ‘new and exciting format’ dreamed up by someone not named Keith Pelley.

 

Seriously, read their FAQs. That’s them putting their best possible spin on the state of things, same as on the NLU podcast. Besides from the blatant lie about no Saudi backing, read their FAQs and tell me what their plan is. To get enough big names to commit in advance to a tour which currently doesn’t exist and then take the actual current tours to court to allow it to happen? While the big names leave their fates to endless injunctions and decisions, unsure of their status on any tour while their primes slowly tick away? Good luck with that.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you. I think it's extremely unlikely that anything like what's being proposed actually gets off the ground. I lack optimism it will actually happen, but what I was meaning is that it would be phenomenal if it actually did come to fruition. The PGA Tour is stagnant, unimaginative, and regularly puts out the most boring and commercial-heavy broadcast of any major (although many would not consider it to be a major sport) sport. I would love to see an alternative, but think you are probably correct that I won't get that opportunity.

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, thesloth said:

 

I don't disagree with you. I think it's extremely unlikely that anything like what's being proposed actually gets off the ground. I lack optimism it will actually happen, but what I was meaning is that it would be phenomenal if it actually did come to fruition. The PGA Tour is stagnant, unimaginative, and regularly puts out the most boring and commercial-heavy broadcast of any major (although many would not consider it to be a major sport) sport. I would love to see an alternative, but think you are probably correct that I won't get that opportunity.

 

I understand that concept sounds appealing to fans 

 

But keep in mind that

 

1. Golf, in its essence, is a game a leisure. 
 

2. It’s a solo sport. 
 

The best in the world are true lone wolves. They don’t like to be told what to do, play for some rich dudes pleasure , be told where and when to play. They fly solo and don’t like to share the stage. The team thing is lost on them. 
 

And there  is a rhythm to the game and to the season that fits with the “chill” aspect of the game. There are the big events but then there are the more low key events. I think the players enjoy both. They’re is such a high level of intensity at the big events and we see, time and time again, guys (besides TW and Jack) can only put the hammer down max for stretches at a time. A season of all hyped up stuff? I don’t even think the top guys would like it. 

[nsxguy]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:16 AM, bscinstnct said:

 

Why would the PGA Tour even acknowledge, much less work with, what seems to be a non-entity that’s looking to take their best players out of their events?

 

Whaaaaaat ?

 

You ignore potential competitors at your peril.

 

That light at the end of the tunnel may not be daylight. It may be another train heading straight for you.

Edited November 19, 2021 by nsxguy

[bscinstnct]

28 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Whaaaaaat ?

 

You ignore potential competitors at your peril.

 

That light at the end of the tunnel may not be daylight. It may be another train heading straight for you.

 

My comment was focused on the post I replied to below. The PGL has no leverage to induce the PGA tour to “work with them”

 

And, from what I see, they are cutting their legs off at every turn to prevent them from being actually categorized as any sort of “competitor”
 

On 11/17/2021 at 10:21 PM,  Johnnypensosaid: 

No Laying Up released a long pod interview with Andy Gardiner from the Premier Golf League. It was really eye opening for me and they seem like a legit group that wants to work with the major tours rather than against them. The team concept really appeals to me along with a lot of the other ideas they discussed. Worth a listen if you're a golf fan.

[nsxguy]

13 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

My comment was focused on the post I replied to below. The PGL has no leverage to induce the PGA tour to “work with them”

 

[nsxguy]

16 hours ago, thesloth said:

 

I don't disagree with you. I think it's extremely unlikely that anything like what's being proposed actually gets off the ground. I lack optimism it will actually happen, but what I was meaning is that it would be phenomenal if it actually did come to fruition. The PGA Tour is stagnant, unimaginative, and regularly puts out the most boring and commercial-heavy broadcast of any major (although many would not consider it to be a major sport) sport. I would love to see an alternative, but think you are probably correct that I won't get that opportunity.

 

So do you think that an "alternative" would show fewer commercials ? i.e. they would foot more of the bill ? I mean SOMEBODY has to pay out this prize money.

 

Or would this alternate you'd like to see do it out of the goodness of their heart(s) ?

 

What should the PGA Tour do to "liven up" their broadcasts ? Jugglers ? Dancing elephants ? What ?

 

As for commercial minutes, I was curious so I looked for and found these 2 links about the subject. Now keep in mind (if you look at them) that one needs to dig down the get the full picture.

 

One is "Ball in play" and the other is for a golf tournament, where A ball is ALWAYS in play (LOL) run once every 2 years and therefore at least a bit more popular than your regular tour event.

 

https://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=475

 

https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/golf-channel-producer-meghan-kuebler-tries-to-defend-commercial-heavy-presidents-cup-broadcast-predictably-gets-ratioed.html

 

 

[cutchemist42]

Honestly, I loved what I heard about the SGL from the NLU interview.

 

Sounds like a very  good setup and better than most events you'd see on the PGA which I barely watch now.

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

 

 

Unlike football the two you posted did become part of the establishment.  Which I do not see happening in golf.

[shoot4par]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:16 PM, Qqq123xx said:

Just here to help.....

 

Care Package? You mean like this?!?!

 

 

 

To be honest it will attract some for appearance fees and money but golf is only relevant 4-6 times a year. Presidents Cup is iffy. (4 Majors, R.C., Players) Even the playoffs can be kinda iffy from an interest perspective. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by shoot4par