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Rory Sabbatini DQ'd for non-conforming club


cristphoto
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On 11/19/2021 at 8:59 AM, cristphoto said:

I just saw Rory Sabbatini was disqualified yesterday because he had one of those little dots you put on a clubface when using a Trackman device.  By rules the Tour said that made the club non-conforming since it didn't leave the factory in that condition. Seems a bit strict but the rules have always been crazy in certain spots.  Does this rule apply to clubfaces only?  I've seen guys playing clubs a couple years old that still have the shaft sticker near the head saying where all the components were made.  How about name ID labels?  I have them on all my clubs and play in tournaments.  

 

How different is that from adding lead tape?  The club doesn't come from the factory with lead tape.  Can't he claim he's using the paper dots to 'micro adjust' weighting? I don't see the difference?

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3 minutes ago, bulls9999 said:

 

How different is that from adding lead tape?  The club doesn't come from the factory with lead tape.  Can't he claim he's using the paper dots to 'micro adjust' weighting? I don't see the difference?

 

There's no difference. Lead tape on the face of the club is also illegal. And they're both legal anywhere else on the club head* as long as the sticker is semi permanent (removing it would break it).

 

*With certain requirements that need to be met.

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This is one of those situations where a little common sense would go a long way. Accidentally playing a club that has been insignificantly changed cosmetically for a valid reason yet offers no advantage whatsoever and without intent should not DQ you. Yeah, rules are rules blah blah blah but come on, we should be smarter than that. You want to yank his club and give him a couple strokes fine, but there should be a distinction between intentionally cheating to gain advantage and simply forgetting you left some irrelevant Trackman dot on your club. I mentioned this in the unpopular opinion thread but golf has a lot of rules that frankly are just dumb and IMO there’s a real need to review them all to make them simple, easy to understand, and sensible. This is a good example.

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The President of the American Rose society just did away with a lot of similar rules for rose exhibiting.

Entries would get DQed for exhibitors making honest mistakes, like leaving ID tags on rose stems or forgetting to remove Q tips from the bloom.  The Q tips are used to move the petals around.

 

I helped an 80 year exhibitor avoid these DQs at his last show, before he retired.  Sure, I want to win, but not that way.

 

 

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1 hour ago, PuffyC said:

This is one of those situations where a little common sense would go a long way. Accidentally playing a club that has been insignificantly changed cosmetically for a valid reason yet offers no advantage whatsoever and without intent should not DQ you. Yeah, rules are rules blah blah blah but come on, we should be smarter than that. You want to yank his club and give him a couple strokes fine, but there should be a distinction between intentionally cheating to gain advantage and simply forgetting you left some irrelevant Trackman dot on your club. I mentioned this in the unpopular opinion thread but golf has a lot of rules that frankly are just dumb and IMO there’s a real need to review them all to make them simple, easy to understand, and sensible. This is a good example.

 

The Rules were re-vamped and made considerably easier to learn and understand on Jan 1, 2019.

 

And while I kinda sorta agree with you about this particular instance being unusually penal, how exactly would you word your "Use common sense" when applying that to the current rules ?

 

Which rules should we extend to use common sense ? Would you put that into EVERY rule ? Some of them ? Just THIS one ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, bulls9999 said:

 

How different is that from adding lead tape?  The club doesn't come from the factory with lead tape.  Can't he claim he's using the paper dots to 'micro adjust' weighting? I don't see the difference?

 

From a previous post of mine (quoting the Rules)

 

"The two long-standing permissible “external attachments” are (a) the permission to use lead tape on the shaft or the head for weighting, and (b) the use of a suction cup at the end of the grip of a putter to assist with retrieving the ball from the hole. While lead tape can affect the performance of the club and a rubber suction cup would exceed the diameter of the butt end of the grip, the use of both of these items continue to be permitted on a traditional basis"

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2 hours ago, PuffyC said:

This is one of those situations where a little common sense would go a long way. Accidentally playing a club that has been insignificantly changed cosmetically for a valid reason yet offers no advantage whatsoever and without intent should not DQ you. Yeah, rules are rules blah blah blah but come on, we should be smarter than that. You want to yank his club and give him a couple strokes fine, but there should be a distinction between intentionally cheating to gain advantage and simply forgetting you left some irrelevant Trackman dot on your club. I mentioned this in the unpopular opinion thread but golf has a lot of rules that frankly are just dumb and IMO there’s a real need to review them all to make them simple, easy to understand, and sensible. This is a good example.

 

Do you want to be the one deciding what qualifies as a significant advantage and how much of of the foreign material you can have on the face and where can it be placed? Or whether or not it was left there purposefully?

 

The rule is very simple and easy to abide by at the moment. You'd be opening a huge can of worms if the line was drawn anywhere else.

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1 minute ago, Halebopp said:

 

Do you want to be the one deciding what qualifies as a significant advantage and how much of of the foreign material you can have on the face and where can it be placed? Or whether or not it was left there purposefully?

 

The rule is very simple and easy to abide by at the moment. You'd be opening a huge can of worms if the line was drawn anywhere else.

Particularly if it wasn't a straight line! 

There's a saying about "common sense", it's not all that common, nor consistent.

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1 hour ago, rogolf said:

This puzzles me.

 

Performance  Characteristics  Deliberately  Changed

The  purpose  of  this  Rule  is  to  penalize  a  player  that  purposely  modifies  his or  her  club  during  a  round 

 

If the condition in red applies how can the statement at the end of the rule also apply if the deed was done before the round started?

Any type of tape or similar material added to the face is not permitted for any  purpose.

 

Which rule deals with this when the round starts?

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Newby said:

This puzzles me.

 

Performance  Characteristics  Deliberately  Changed

The  purpose  of  this  Rule  is  to  penalize  a  player  that  purposely  modifies  his or  her  club  during  a  round 

 

If the condition in red applies how can the statement at the end of the rule also apply if the deed was done before the round started?

Any type of tape or similar material added to the face is not permitted for any  purpose.

 

Which rule deals with this when the round starts?

 

 

The presence of tape or similar material on the face of the club makes the club non-conforming, ie, that paragraph is not about changing performance characteristics during the round.

 

Edited by rogolf
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3 hours ago, PuffyC said:

common sense

 

Common sense, a heuristic problem solving technique,  yields approximate results. If the outcome doesn't really matter, then have at it. In the Rules of Golf there's no room for guessing about things for which guessing is not necessary.

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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3 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Common sense, a heuristic problem solving technique,  yields approximate results. If the outcome doesn't really matter, then have at it. In the Rules of Golf there's no room for guessing about things for which guessing is not necessary.

Yes, we are very fortunate there is no ambiguity in the RoG.

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1 hour ago, Newby said:

This puzzles me.

 

Performance  Characteristics  Deliberately  Changed

The  purpose  of  this  Rule  is  to  penalize  a  player  that  purposely  modifies  his or  her  club  during  a  round 

 

If the condition in red applies how can the statement at the end of the rule also apply if the deed was done before the round started?

Any type of tape or similar material added to the face is not permitted for any  purpose.

 

Which rule deals with this when the round starts?

 

 

It amazes me that the portion in italics above is hard for someone to understand.

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So why can so many players have lead tape on their clubs....but not a 'silver dot'?  I don't see why lead tape wouldn't be considered non-conforming in the same manner as the dot?

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9 minutes ago, bulls9999 said:

So why can so many players have lead tape on their clubs....but not a 'silver dot'?  I don't see why lead tape wouldn't be considered non-conforming in the same manner as the dot?

 

The answer has been provided for you several times in previous posts. But, you can look it up for yourself here:

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Equipment/Equipment Rules 2020 v2.pdf

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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2 hours ago, rogolf said:

The presence of tape or similar material on the face of the club makes the club non-conforming, ie, that paragraph is not about changing performance characteristics during the round.

 

So why is it included in the Rule named

Performance  Characteristics  Deliberately  Changed  which includes the words The  purpose  of  this Rule ......  and  ..... during  a  round ?

 

The words do not say what the drafter seemingly intended

 

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2 hours ago, Newby said:

So why is it included in the Rule named

Performance  Characteristics  Deliberately  Changed  which includes the words The  purpose  of  this Rule ......  and  ..... during  a  round ?

 

The words do not say what the drafter seemingly intended

 

I don't know.  You'd have to ask them (and I know you're capable of doing that! 🙂)

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On 11/19/2021 at 6:13 PM, rogolf said:

For info, below is another excerpt from The Equipment Rules, my emphasis added to the last line(s), which certainly clarify the tape or similar material issue.….


The most important question to ask when ruling on a club which has had
something temporarily applied to the face by a player is “why has it been
put there?” If a material or substance has been applied to the face in order
to protect it or clean it, then it would probably be permitted provided all
other Rules are satisfied. However, if the purpose of the application is to
influence the movement of the ball or assist the player in making a stroke,
it would be prohibited.
Any type of tape or similar material added to the face is not permitted for
any purpose.


What’s bolded is where they went wrong. They should have just stopped with intent and effect, or more specifically, “why has it been put there”. These are rulings so asking questions matters, like “Was it deliberate?” “Was it meant to affect the ball?” “Would this assist the player in making a stroke?” If it’s a bunch of no’s across the board then just remove it and move on. Or give them two strokes and a stern talking to then move on. If your rules call for DQ’ing someone and potentially causing them the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars for accidentally leaving a tiny trackman dot on their club that effects nothing at all in any way, your rules have problems.

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The "rools am stupid" crowd has predictably showed up for this one. (It's been awhile since they could weigh in on divot holes or some other nonsense.) 🙄

 

Lost on them is that, apparently, the miscreant not only knew the Rule but it's reported that he fessed up.

 

 

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Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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8 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

Do you want to be the one deciding what qualifies as a significant advantage and how much of of the foreign material you can have on the face and where can it be placed? Or whether or not it was left there purposefully?

 

The rule is very simple and easy to abide by at the moment. You'd be opening a huge can of worms if the line was drawn anywhere else.

 

Yes and to what end. This is a rule that is broken extremely rarely to be extreme clarity - nothing added to the face. period. full stop. Why change a rule that preforms extraordinary well.

 

 

 

 

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Maybe I should have asked in my original post.... did Sabbatini have the paper dots on the driver face or on the side?  I was thinking on the side of the driver head, facing the Trackman thing.  I can see where there would be issue with having them on the face (which is what impacts the ball).

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20 hours ago, rogolf said:

I don’t know why but I chuckled at reading “grass juice” in their paragraph. 

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