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During Lift, Clean, and Place play, a question about rule.


bulls9999
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19 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Well, the way I see it is that GUR is a pre-defined area and one is allowed to get a relief from the entire area by Definition. LC&P gives a relief from a specific spot instead from an area.

 

Maybe we will get an official view on this someday. Until then I wait for the day to encounter such a situation. Around here it will take a while, we just got the first snow 😄


If I were the type to write in and ask, I would probably want to know if GUR covers the vertical space going upwards from the perimeter of the marked/defined area, or is it only the ground it encircles, using the literal definition of ground... i.e. "GROUND under repair".  

 

Edited by Imp

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17 hours ago, rogolf said:

LCP Model Local Rule in effect.  My ball ends up in marked GUR in the closely-mown part of the general area.  When I look at taking GUR relief, my nearest point of complete relief is in the rough.  However, if I do LCP within the GUR area, then my nearest point of complete relief from the GUR would be in the closely-mown area.  I do the LCP, then take relief from the GUR and drop into the closely-mown area.  Now, can I do LCP again?

Yes. You have a new situation.

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1 hour ago, Imp said:


If I were the type to write in and ask, I would probably want to know if GUR covers the vertical space going upwards from the perimeter of the marked/defined area, or is it only the ground it encircles, using the literal definition of ground... i.e. "GROUND under repair".  

 

 

This one is pretty clear by the USGA definition of GUR I think...

 

Ground Under Repair

Any part of the course the Committee defines to be ground under repair (whether by marking it or otherwise). Any defined ground under repair includes both:

  • All ground inside the edge of the defined area, and

  • Any grass, bush, tree or other growing or attached natural object rooted in the defined area, including any part of those objects that extends up above the ground outside the edge of the defined area (but not when such object is attached to or below the ground outside the edge of the defined area, such as a tree root that is part of a tree rooted inside the edge.)

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It feels like the answer to the OP's original question lies in the comments which proceed the Model Rule E-3 in section 8? The sentence I marked in bold below, would seem to indicate that once the area is defined it includes free relief from otherwise unplayable lies in bushes and trees for example.

E-3 Preferred Lies

Purpose. When occasional local abnormal conditions might interfere with fair play, the affected parts of the course can be defined as ground under repair. But adverse conditions such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can sometimes damage the course or prevent use of heavy mowing equipment.

When such conditions are widespread on the course, the Committee can choose to adopt a Local Rule for “preferred lies” (also known as “winter rules”) to allow fair play or help protect the fairway. Such a Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as conditions allow.

 

The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees).

 

It is not authorised to implement this Local Rule once play has begun for a stroke-play round. Doing so would allow players who have more holes to play the advantage of using it for a longer period of time. The Local Rule could be implemented once a match has begun between the play of two holes as opponents have an equal benefit.

For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes (including the size of the relief area and if it may only be used in the fairway), consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Edited by Dpavs
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1 hour ago, Dpavs said:

 

This one is pretty clear by the USGA definition of GUR I think...

 

Ground Under Repair

Any part of the course the Committee defines to be ground under repair (whether by marking it or otherwise). Any defined ground under repair includes both:

  • All ground inside the edge of the defined area, and

  • Any grass, bush, tree or other growing or attached natural object rooted in the defined area, including any part of those objects that extends up above the ground outside the edge of the defined area (but not when such object is attached to or below the ground outside the edge of the defined area, such as a tree root that is part of a tree rooted inside the edge.)


😉 Exactly. So if it's in a tree in the defined area, it's GUR.

Callaway Mavrik 9* Fujikura Pro2.0 6.5 / Callaway Rogue 3W / Srixon ZX5 Irons (4-AW) / Vokey SM8 56*, Callaway, 64*

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8 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

Why would anyone who plays this game with any integrity expect to prefer their lie in a tree or a Bush.

Enough Said !

Some folk have funny ideas when it comes to fair play and protection of fairway.!😠😠

I agree.  In a casual round, if someone asked me in they were entitled to free relief I would tell them to do something not physically possibly.

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36 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

Why would anyone who plays this game with any integrity expect to prefer their lie in a tree or a Bush.

Enough Said !

Some folk have funny ideas when it comes to fair play and protection of fairway.!😠😠

 

I share your view but for some reason the Ruling Bodies have difficulties in deciding which view to state to be the official one. Thus our view may just be too simplified.

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3 hours ago, Colin L said:

 

I'd be keeping way more than a club length clear of you, then 🙂 

Good idea.  I rarely go all Steve Pate any more, but it can still happen.

Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"

Jazz 3 wd Powercoil Stiff
Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
Rogue 3iron Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
X2 Hot 4-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
Vokey SM2 52º cc, Ping ES 56º and ES 60º
Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.75"
MCC Align Midsize

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8 hours ago, limegreengent said:

Why would anyone who plays this game with any integrity expect to prefer their lie in a tree or a Bush.

Enough Said !

Some folk have funny ideas when it comes to fair play and protection of fairway.!😠😠

C'mon LGG, you can do better than this. I can't think of any way to lose respect faster than impugning someone that expresses a different argument to what you think as failing to "play the game with any integrity".

 

And you seem to have missed the point - RBs are not currently capable of answering the question on the published rules. 

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