Can 15 Year Old Clubs Still Compete?

[GGalunga]

Once upon a time, I was a club fitter/builder, then left the game, and recently had back surgery. So now with getting back into the game, recovering from back surgery, and selling off most of my equipment, I'm left with 3 sets of clubs, down from 10 , so I'm making progress haha. I built so many to try out and experiment with different heads, shafts, etc but I was always very picky about which clubs would stay in my primary set. So now that I have a different profession, I want to get down to 1 set of clubs.

 

I'm going through a similar approach to how I would choose clubs to be in my primary set.. Here's a snapshot of yesterdays session. 

 

 

The Srixon and KZG sets I build back in 2006ish The HMB's I traded for recently. Lofts were checked prior to hitting, All the other specs were recorded as well and will need to be dialed in a little more once the final set is chosen. I just finished PT and started fitness training again so I'm not as consistent as I used to be but it's a start and a process. 

[PEI_Golfer]

Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

[GGalunga]

9 minutes ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

I agree, I'm not too surprised by these irons numbers and I expect I'll see a wider gap when I go through my hybrid and wood evaluations. 

[nitram]

I recently took my old R510TP for a spin and it's about 8-10 yards shorter than my SLDR 430. But so is everything else...

 

If you can find the middle of the club face on your older stuff they will still compete as long as you don't mind hitting a 7-iron as opposed to a PW, both with the same loft.

[GGalunga]

1 hour ago, nitram said:

I recently took my old R510TP for a spin and it's about 8-10 yards shorter than my SLDR 430. But so is everything else...

 

If you can find the middle of the club face on your older stuff they will still compete as long as you don't mind hitting a 7-iron as opposed to a PW, both with the same loft.

I wasn't too surprised with the irons but yeah like your R510, I figure I'll seem more improvement with newer woods vs my Srixon Z-RW and Sonartec 3-wood

Yeah the loft jacking of clubs is also why I recorded all the specs on the irons first. Sure my Mizuno 6 iron is a little longer but it's also 36° vs 38° with the Srixon or KZG

[Jeff58]

If you’ve had back surgery, consider graphite. While iron “tech” has advanced to some degree, mostly in terms of distance, the capability of modern graphite iron shafts is radically improved.

[JahSteve]

Irons wise I saw no real difference between my '18 Hogan Edge irons or my Ping eye 2 BeCu irons. I dont have any monitors or what not but just course or range hits. I actually use the PW of the eye 2 plus set instead of my hogan PW. 

 

Drivers i would expect to see some advancements making newer drivers "better". Fairway woods as well. Not sure on hybrids as i do have an old nike hybrid that competes with my newer cleveland hybrid. 

my opinion only and i stink too. 

[BIG STU]

2 minutes ago, JahSteve said:

Irons wise I saw no real difference between my '18 Hogan Edge irons or my Ping eye 2 BeCu irons. I dont have any monitors or what not but just course or range hits. I actually use the PW of the eye 2 plus set instead of my hogan PW. 

 

Drivers i would expect to see some advancements making newer drivers "better". Fairway woods as well. Not sure on hybrids as i do have an old nike hybrid that competes with my newer cleveland hybrid. 

my opinion only and i stink too. 

I used to argue the point on drivers being about the same--- But I had a change of heart after getting my M-6 last summer-- But then again for some folks they get the perfect shaft combo for them and it continues to work

[JahSteve]

7 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I used to argue the point on drivers being about the same--- But I had a change of heart after getting my M-6 last summer-- But then again for some folks they get the perfect shaft combo for them and it continues to work

good point. if your losing 10 yards but are confident with the older driver/wood will hit the fairway no sense in getting a new driver for 10 yards more distance but 2nd shots out of the rough or worse.  

[GGalunga]

58 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

If you’ve had back surgery, consider graphite. While iron “tech” has advanced to some degree, mostly in terms of distance, the capability of modern graphite iron shafts is radically improved.

Definitely going to be more open minded about equipment as well and consider this. 

[Red4282]

Yes. The only exception is woods have mildly improved. Everything else is just as good or even better.

[14max]

I'm hitting my 1982 Eye2s just as far as I hit my i200s and G400s in the same loft.  I definitely like the feel of the Eye2s over the newer ones...

[boggyman]

Unless you’re chasing distance, absolutely they’d be fine. I play a set regularly that are way older than 15 years old, they’re from the early 80s! As long as the shaft fits you and you like them, by all means play older irons. 

[BURKMI19]

22 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

To your point about forgiveness with woods, for sure the newest model drivers 460cc the way they are constructed the misses are so much better than 15 years ago.  

[lefthack]

My KZG blades are from around '01 I am told and were NOS I bought last year. The groves don't meet the '10 standard, but they are by far the best iron I have hit so far.

 

Are they still competitive, not legally. But yes, yes they are. It's a forged blade, how much has smashed steel "technology" advanced since then?

[dbleag]

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

[Superbrit]

3 minutes ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

OEM's are not going to do that for many reasons, but the main one being that 90% of recreational golfers wouldn't know what they mean 

 

"but which is my 7 iron?"

[BIG STU]

14 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

OEM's are not going to do that for many reasons, but the main one being that 90% of recreational golfers wouldn't know what they mean 

 

"but which is my 7 iron?"

LOL---- True---- funny but true

Edited November 25, 2021 by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, lefthack said:

My KZG blades are from around '01 I am told and were NOS I bought last year. The groves don't meet the '10 standard, but they are by far the best iron I have hit so far.

 

Are they still competitive, not legally. But yes, yes they are. It's a forged blade, how much has smashed steel "technology" advanced since then?

This is IMHO---- A lot of the so called adavnces could be the properity metal blends and the processes. But then again Mizuno does their own thing as does Miura and other JDM brands. BTW your KZGs are Kyoei forged which are great and combined with a good shaft gives great feel. And most of the JDM forging houses go off of traditional processes handed down through the generations. I have learned a great deal about steel blends from studying golf clubs and working in the scrap steel industry. Yep I will agree that those KZGs you have perform as well as anything made today. As far as "conforming" if you do not play stipulated events then play and enjoy them

[rwc356]

To follow up on the comments about woods. I've found my persimmon driver is about 10 yards shorter and the smaller (less than 350 cc) metal drivers are the same as my 460 cc - provided I hit it on the sweet spot. Reality is as a 10 hcp, I miss the sweet spot more often than I nail it. So, my 460 cc has a better average length (about 5-7 yards) than 350 cc and 10+ yards than my persimmon. Great shot on persimmon will match the 350 cc and great 350 cc will match the 460 cc. Now if I could only learn to hit great shots !

[SoCalTitleist]

Itons don’t change , manufactures claim improvement every year but we’re talking .1% increase that’s tenths of an inch  nothing you can notice .

[Freeze]

Drivers are better; everything else is a course/personal preference choice.

[jt2gt]

Great thread and numbers.  I went to Srixon Z745 two seasons ago...late to the party I know.  Can't get off of them no matter how hard I try with the new stuff.  

[lefthack]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

This is IMHO---- A lot of the so called adavnces could be the properity metal blends and the processes. But then again Mizuno does their own thing as does Miura and other JDM brands. BTW your KZGs are Kyoei forged which are great and combined with a good shaft gives great feel. And most of the JDM forging houses go off of traditional processes handed down through the generations. I have learned a great deal about steel blends from studying golf clubs and working in the scrap steel industry. Yep I will agree that those KZGs you have perform as well as anything made today. As far as "conforming" if you do not play stipulated events then play and enjoy them

 

I would if I could find a 6 iron. 🤣

 

The lack of 6 gave me the opportunity to play a Mizuno MP32 and an MP68. Both were also amazing clubs, but it also reenforced the notion the KZG's were as good as I thought. I still have the heads and continue to search for a 6. But a 20 year old lefty blade 6 iron from a boutique joint isn't as simple to find as you would think.

[A.Princey]

1 hour ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, lefthack said:

 

I would if I could find a 6 iron. 🤣

 

The lack of 6 gave me the opportunity to play a Mizuno MP32 and an MP68. Both were also amazing clubs, but it also reenforced the notion the KZG's were as good as I thought. I still have the heads and continue to search for a 6. But a 20 year old lefty blade 6 iron from a boutique joint isn't as simple to find as you would think.

Yep KZGs are a rare bird anyhow. A friend of mine who had a custom shop ( now retired) was a KZG , Wishon , Alpha and Infiniti dealer---- He turned me on to KZG a while back--- Not being mainstream so to speak they can be found cheap in Pawn Shops and used club stores. I know the lefty versions have to be hard to find because I have never seen any KZGs in lefty.

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, A.Princey said:

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

Most people are only looking at the loft numbers--- The examples you mentioned the basic heads themselves are a totally different design and function. Plus shaft technology has changed so much between the design and manufacture dates on those clubs. I know exactly where you are coming frome here. Depending on the players needs I have put like newer shafts in older irons with good results. Now someone with good SS I can take like a softer tip graphite shaft and get some amazing results from that old Hogan Apex. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by BIG STU

[cgasucks]

3 hours ago, rwc356 said:

Great shot on persimmon will match the 350 cc and great 350 cc will match the 460 cc. 

 

As much as I love hitting with persimmon and even practice with one I hate to rain on your parade.  A solid shot with a persimmon driver will NEVER beat let alone match the distance of modern titanium driver based on the physical properties of the materials alone.  The COR for persimmon is .78 while titanium can go much higher than that, but is capped at .83.  Therefore, ballspeeds on well struck persimmon heads will always be lower than that of well struck titanium heads (and even steel) for a given clubhead speed.

Edited November 25, 2021 by cgasucks

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, A.Princey said:

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

 

Might make sense if club numbers actually had meaning.  But they don't.  They're an arbitrary reference.  That said....

 

"Higher and softer" has existed for 60+ years.  I was able to find it even within the relatively narrow field of classic blades.

 

Aside from that, I thought we needed to hit the ball higher because the modern ball spins less.  Doesn't reducing the loft further defeat the purpose?

 

[GGalunga]

4 hours ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

I wish...