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Can 15 Year Old Clubs Still Compete?


GGalunga
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Once upon a time, I was a club fitter/builder, then left the game, and recently had back surgery. So now with getting back into the game, recovering from back surgery, and selling off most of my equipment, I'm left with 3 sets of clubs, down from 10 , so I'm making progress haha. I built so many to try out and experiment with different heads, shafts, etc but I was always very picky about which clubs would stay in my primary set. So now that I have a different profession, I want to get down to 1 set of clubs.

 

I'm going through a similar approach to how I would choose clubs to be in my primary set.. Here's a snapshot of yesterdays session. 

 

iron compare 211123.png

 

The Srixon and KZG sets I build back in 2006ish The HMB's I traded for recently. Lofts were checked prior to hitting, All the other specs were recorded as well and will need to be dialed in a little more once the final set is chosen. I just finished PT and started fitness training again so I'm not as consistent as I used to be but it's a start and a process. 

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Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

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Titleist TSi2 9* AV Raw Blue 65TX

Titleist TS2 16.5* AV Raw Blue 75TX

Titleist TS3 19* AV Raw Blue 75X

Ping I210 4-UW Nippon SPB X SSx1

Vokey TVD 56M & 60K DG TI S400

SC PP Mid-Slant

 

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9 minutes ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

I agree, I'm not too surprised by these irons numbers and I expect I'll see a wider gap when I go through my hybrid and wood evaluations. 

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I recently took my old R510TP for a spin and it's about 8-10 yards shorter than my SLDR 430. But so is everything else...

 

If you can find the middle of the club face on your older stuff they will still compete as long as you don't mind hitting a 7-iron as opposed to a PW, both with the same loft.

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TaylorMade JDM SLDR TP 430 10*           MCA Diamana X17 60X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 15*                           MCA Diamana X17 70X

Bridgestone J33 AirMuscle 19*                 Velyx Rome Wildeye 988X
MIURA TC-201   4-6                                  MCA MMT-105TX

MIURA MB-101  7-P                                   MCA MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Prototype  52, 57, 60                MCA MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Cameron 009 1.5 34/350 Beached Prototype (A010656)

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1 hour ago, nitram said:

I recently took my old R510TP for a spin and it's about 8-10 yards shorter than my SLDR 430. But so is everything else...

 

If you can find the middle of the club face on your older stuff they will still compete as long as you don't mind hitting a 7-iron as opposed to a PW, both with the same loft.

I wasn't too surprised with the irons but yeah like your R510, I figure I'll seem more improvement with newer woods vs my Srixon Z-RW and Sonartec 3-wood

Yeah the loft jacking of clubs is also why I recorded all the specs on the irons first. Sure my Mizuno 6 iron is a little longer but it's also 36° vs 38° with the Srixon or KZG

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Irons wise I saw no real difference between my '18 Hogan Edge irons or my Ping eye 2 BeCu irons. I dont have any monitors or what not but just course or range hits. I actually use the PW of the eye 2 plus set instead of my hogan PW. 

 

Drivers i would expect to see some advancements making newer drivers "better". Fairway woods as well. Not sure on hybrids as i do have an old nike hybrid that competes with my newer cleveland hybrid. 

my opinion only and i stink too. 

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Hogan Edge 4-PW

Mizuno JPX 919 F GW

Ping Eye 2+ BeCu SW

Cleveland Launcher 19*

Adams Idea Black Super Hybrid 17*

Callaway steelhead XR 3W

YES! Callie c-groove putter

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2 minutes ago, JahSteve said:

Irons wise I saw no real difference between my '18 Hogan Edge irons or my Ping eye 2 BeCu irons. I dont have any monitors or what not but just course or range hits. I actually use the PW of the eye 2 plus set instead of my hogan PW. 

 

Drivers i would expect to see some advancements making newer drivers "better". Fairway woods as well. Not sure on hybrids as i do have an old nike hybrid that competes with my newer cleveland hybrid. 

my opinion only and i stink too. 

I used to argue the point on drivers being about the same--- But I had a change of heart after getting my M-6 last summer-- But then again for some folks they get the perfect shaft combo for them and it continues to work

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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7 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I used to argue the point on drivers being about the same--- But I had a change of heart after getting my M-6 last summer-- But then again for some folks they get the perfect shaft combo for them and it continues to work

good point. if your losing 10 yards but are confident with the older driver/wood will hit the fairway no sense in getting a new driver for 10 yards more distance but 2nd shots out of the rough or worse.  

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Hogan Edge 4-PW

Mizuno JPX 919 F GW

Ping Eye 2+ BeCu SW

Cleveland Launcher 19*

Adams Idea Black Super Hybrid 17*

Callaway steelhead XR 3W

YES! Callie c-groove putter

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58 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

If you’ve had back surgery, consider graphite. While iron “tech” has advanced to some degree, mostly in terms of distance, the capability of modern graphite iron shafts is radically improved.

Definitely going to be more open minded about equipment as well and consider this. 

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I'm hitting my 1982 Eye2s just as far as I hit my i200s and G400s in the same loft.  I definitely like the feel of the Eye2s over the newer ones...

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Drivers Callaway MAVRIK MAX (10.5*)//X460 (10*)

Woods Callaway MAVRIK MAX//GBB Hawk Eye (3/5/7)

Irons PING ie1 (5-UW)//Eye2 PAT PENDING//ISI-S (4-PW)

Wedges PING Eye2 XG (SW/LW)//Eye2 (LW)

Putters PING Anser X//Darby//Piper (variants)

Bags Bag Boy Chiller Hybrid//Datrek Go Lite Hybrid

Cart Clicgear 3.5+

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22 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Irons and wedges will be fine unless you are chasing distance.  Woods are more forgiving across the face for sure and higher ball speeds in current lines vs. 15 years. 

To your point about forgiveness with woods, for sure the newest model drivers 460cc the way they are constructed the misses are so much better than 15 years ago.  

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My KZG blades are from around '01 I am told and were NOS I bought last year. The groves don't meet the '10 standard, but they are by far the best iron I have hit so far.

 

Are they still competitive, not legally. But yes, yes they are. It's a forged blade, how much has smashed steel "technology" advanced since then?

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Taylormade M6 D Type driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Honma XP-1 3 and 5 wood 

Taylormade GAPR Lo 19* Hybrid 

Byrdie Golf Designs split cavity 4-PW

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Haywood 52/10 and 56/12 wedges

Nike Blue Chip 002 putter

Golf Pride Concept Helix grips

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We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

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3 minutes ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

OEM's are not going to do that for many reasons, but the main one being that 90% of recreational golfers wouldn't know what they mean 

 

"but which is my 7 iron?"

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Callaway Epic Speed 9*

Callaway XR speed 15*

Taylormade M3 Hybrid 19*

Adams DHY 21*

Mizuno 900 Forged 5-PW

Mizuno T20 Raw 50*

Titleist SM8 54 & 58

Odyssey White Hot 2 Ball

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

OEM's are not going to do that for many reasons, but the main one being that 90% of recreational golfers wouldn't know what they mean 

 

"but which is my 7 iron?"

LOL---- True---- funny but true

Edited by BIG STU

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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1 hour ago, lefthack said:

My KZG blades are from around '01 I am told and were NOS I bought last year. The groves don't meet the '10 standard, but they are by far the best iron I have hit so far.

 

Are they still competitive, not legally. But yes, yes they are. It's a forged blade, how much has smashed steel "technology" advanced since then?

This is IMHO---- A lot of the so called adavnces could be the properity metal blends and the processes. But then again Mizuno does their own thing as does Miura and other JDM brands. BTW your KZGs are Kyoei forged which are great and combined with a good shaft gives great feel. And most of the JDM forging houses go off of traditional processes handed down through the generations. I have learned a great deal about steel blends from studying golf clubs and working in the scrap steel industry. Yep I will agree that those KZGs you have perform as well as anything made today. As far as "conforming" if you do not play stipulated events then play and enjoy them

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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To follow up on the comments about woods. I've found my persimmon driver is about 10 yards shorter and the smaller (less than 350 cc) metal drivers are the same as my 460 cc - provided I hit it on the sweet spot. Reality is as a 10 hcp, I miss the sweet spot more often than I nail it. So, my 460 cc has a better average length (about 5-7 yards) than 350 cc and 10+ yards than my persimmon. Great shot on persimmon will match the 350 cc and great 350 cc will match the 460 cc. Now if I could only learn to hit great shots !

Just an older guy with 7 or 8 clubs and a MacKenzie Sunday Walker bag

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1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

This is IMHO---- A lot of the so called adavnces could be the properity metal blends and the processes. But then again Mizuno does their own thing as does Miura and other JDM brands. BTW your KZGs are Kyoei forged which are great and combined with a good shaft gives great feel. And most of the JDM forging houses go off of traditional processes handed down through the generations. I have learned a great deal about steel blends from studying golf clubs and working in the scrap steel industry. Yep I will agree that those KZGs you have perform as well as anything made today. As far as "conforming" if you do not play stipulated events then play and enjoy them

 

I would if I could find a 6 iron. 🤣

 

The lack of 6 gave me the opportunity to play a Mizuno MP32 and an MP68. Both were also amazing clubs, but it also reenforced the notion the KZG's were as good as I thought. I still have the heads and continue to search for a 6. But a 20 year old lefty blade 6 iron from a boutique joint isn't as simple to find as you would think.

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Taylormade M6 D Type driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Honma XP-1 3 and 5 wood 

Taylormade GAPR Lo 19* Hybrid 

Byrdie Golf Designs split cavity 4-PW

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Haywood 52/10 and 56/12 wedges

Nike Blue Chip 002 putter

Golf Pride Concept Helix grips

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1 hour ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

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TM 2016 M2 12*(-2 setting) - OG Grafalloy Blue X, 43.5"

TEE XCG7 16.5* 4w, OG Grafalloy Blue S, 41.75"

Wilson D9 18* 4i, KBS Max-R, 39.5”

Cobra King OS 4-G, TT XP95 R300, -.5"

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1 hour ago, lefthack said:

 

I would if I could find a 6 iron. 🤣

 

The lack of 6 gave me the opportunity to play a Mizuno MP32 and an MP68. Both were also amazing clubs, but it also reenforced the notion the KZG's were as good as I thought. I still have the heads and continue to search for a 6. But a 20 year old lefty blade 6 iron from a boutique joint isn't as simple to find as you would think.

Yep KZGs are a rare bird anyhow. A friend of mine who had a custom shop ( now retired) was a KZG , Wishon , Alpha and Infiniti dealer---- He turned me on to KZG a while back--- Not being mainstream so to speak they can be found cheap in Pawn Shops and used club stores. I know the lefty versions have to be hard to find because I have never seen any KZGs in lefty.

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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1 hour ago, A.Princey said:

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

Most people are only looking at the loft numbers--- The examples you mentioned the basic heads themselves are a totally different design and function. Plus shaft technology has changed so much between the design and manufacture dates on those clubs. I know exactly where you are coming frome here. Depending on the players needs I have put like newer shafts in older irons with good results. Now someone with good SS I can take like a softer tip graphite shaft and get some amazing results from that old Hogan Apex. 

Edited by BIG STU
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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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3 hours ago, rwc356 said:

Great shot on persimmon will match the 350 cc and great 350 cc will match the 460 cc

 

As much as I love hitting with persimmon and even practice with one I hate to rain on your parade.  A solid shot with a persimmon driver will NEVER beat let alone match the distance of modern titanium driver based on the physical properties of the materials alone.  The COR for persimmon is .78 while titanium can go much higher than that, but is capped at .83.  Therefore, ballspeeds on well struck persimmon heads will always be lower than that of well struck titanium heads (and even steel) for a given clubhead speed.

Edited by cgasucks
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10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft (Stiff flex)
Titleist 990 (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold in S300
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts (Regular Flex)
2011 Adams Tom Watson signature wedges in 52 and 56 degrees with stock steel shafts (Player's Grind)
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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2 hours ago, A.Princey said:

Why does this matter to so darn many people??? They launch higher and land softer, much different than any predecessor, so equal lofts flight WAY different anyway. Hit a Hogan Apex 2i vs a Cally Mavrik 4i, both 18*, let me know the results….
 

Equipment marketing is quite cutthroat, and maybe surprising to some, these companies are in it to turn a profit, not cater to the demands of a few disgruntled traditionalists. Even still, there do exist traditional blade/cb options out there to match your expectations, so these might suit you better. 

 

Might make sense if club numbers actually had meaning.  But they don't.  They're an arbitrary reference.  That said....

 

"Higher and softer" has existed for 60+ years.  I was able to find it even within the relatively narrow field of classic blades.

 

Aside from that, I thought we needed to hit the ball higher because the modern ball spins less.  Doesn't reducing the loft further defeat the purpose?

 

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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4 hours ago, dbleag said:

We should encourage OEM's to change from the traditional numbers on the bottom of the club (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,P,G,S,L) to the actual loft numbers.  

 

That way, the marketing claims of increased distance in new products from technological advances could be more substantially proven.

 

It's been mentioned for years on this site.

I wish...

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