I was shocked at how over rated the Kapalua Plantation course turned out to be

[2bGood]

3 minutes ago, Robber6656 said:

It is. So is the par 5 right before it with the blind 2nd shot. Lahinch was my favorite course over there. Great town  and people too.

I guess we are in the camp that find blind shots a feature, not a flaw.

 

Course knowledge it typically needed for them though. 

[Robber6656]

18 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I guess we are in the camp that find blind shots a feature, not a flaw.

 

Course knowledge it typically needed for them though. 

The number 6 course in the world has 5 on the first 11 holes. Can't be much of a flaw. You need a caddie first time around on RCD for sure.

 

I do understand the OP's frustration. Nothing worse than hitting what you think is a good shot and ending up in trouble. Doesn't make the course bad, it just means you need another trip around to figure out how to play it.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Robber6656

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Robber6656 said:

The number 6 course in the world has 5 on the first 11 holes. Can't be much of a flaw. You need a caddie first time around on RCD for sure.

 

I do understand the OP's frustration. Nothing worse than hitting what you think is a good shot and ending up in trouble. Doesn't make the course bad, it just means you need another trip around to figure out how to play it.

As I rule I always try to arrange to play my 'bucket list' courses twice. RCD was more fun the second time for sure, but I really do enjoy 'discovering' the hole the first time out. 

[thezinfan]

I love the Plantation Course. I'm not sure how someone would know about the course and not know about the blind shots or up-and-down nature of the course. They are readily apparent on the TV broadcast. It's actually pretty easy/fun. I will say the starter on the first tee is worthless as far as directing you on where to aim/how much rollout. He wanted me to aim at the right side junk because i was hitting 3 wood, but I knew I could reach that. I always aim dead left on #1. 

 

The only thing that's truly disappointing for me at the course is the range. Looks like a crappy vacant field.

[Robber6656]

1 minute ago, thezinfan said:

I love the Plantation Course. I'm not sure how someone would know about the course and not know about the blind shots or up-and-down nature of the course. They are readily apparent on the TV broadcast. It's actually pretty easy/fun. I will say the starter on the first tee is worthless as far as directing you on where to aim/how much rollout. He wanted me to aim at the right side junk because i was hitting 3 wood, but I knew I could reach that. I always aim dead left on #1. 

 

The only thing that's truly disappointing for me at the course is the range. Looks like a crappy vacant field.

It's been a long time since I played it but I still remember the crappy range. The wind was the killer. Hawaii was the worst wind I ever played in.

[Golferpaul]

On 11/27/2021 at 11:25 PM, 2bGood said:

To the OP, I having trouble coming up with more than 2 two, truly blind shots on the Plantation. There are lots of holes where you need to pick your landing spot though - I have to say I enjoy the creativity on how you can play those holes.

 

18 is so cool that if you land it in the right spot you can get another 150 yards out of your drive. 

Maybe "blind" is the wrong word.  Let's take hole #1 for example.  We hit good drives right down the middle of the fairway and when we got to our balls, one of them was on the canyon downslope.  That's blind, meaning you can't see where to hit from the tee.   I know there are at least eight of those holes.

[Haloha]

I LOVE Playing that course and yes some blind tee shots can be a pain but if you've seen it on tv you know its a rollercoaster the rolls out look at 18 lol.  but I love playin on top of that mountain.  my complaint is that the hotels are old around there so I prefer the big island.

[tte720]

9 hours ago, Haloha said:

I LOVE Playing that course and yes some blind tee shots can be a pain but if you've seen it on tv you know its a rollercoaster the rolls out look at 18 lol.  but I love playin on top of that mountain.  my complaint is that the hotels are old around there so I prefer the big island.

We stayed in wailea and drove over to kapalua to play plantation when we stayed in Maui. Most fun 102 I’ve ever played. I lost a few balls but got destroyed by approaches and around the greens. I also hit the longest drive and 5w of my life.
 

Driver-6i to reach the 18th in 2 only to putt off the green was something special

[Robber6656]

17 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Maybe "blind" is the wrong word.  Let's take hole #1 for example.  We hit good drives right down the middle of the fairway and when we got to our balls, one of them was on the canyon downslope.  That's blind, meaning you can't see where to hit from the tee.   I know there are at least eight of those holes.

You lost me with this. If you played in Ireland or Scotland you’ve plenty of drives down the middle that took a wild bounce and ended up in crap. What’s the difference. Plenty of course require more than one round to know where to hit it. 

[vallygolf]

19 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Maybe "blind" is the wrong word.  Let's take hole #1 for example.  We hit good drives right down the middle of the fairway and when we got to our balls, one of them was on the canyon downslope.  That's blind, meaning you can't see where to hit from the tee.   I know there are at least eight of those holes.

Yeah, I think you are either misusing the word blind, or have a skewed view of what blind is.  Above you post that #11 at Pebble beach isnt a blind tee shot.  It in fact is a very blind tee shot.  The natural eye wants to hit the ball dead center into a wide open space.  This will often leave the player in the right rough.  The fairway is much more to the left side of the horizon in line with the telephone pole.  By any definition this is a blind shot.  You cant visualize the landing spot.  #14 at pebble is the same.  By my count there are 5 holes on pebble beach where I dont see my ball come down in the fairway (3,8,11,14,16).  I guess I dont mind a blind shot or 5

Edited December 1, 2021 by vallygolf

[2bGood]

23 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Maybe "blind" is the wrong word.  Let's take hole #1 for example.  We hit good drives right down the middle of the fairway and when we got to our balls, one of them was on the canyon downslope.  That's blind, meaning you can't see where to hit from the tee.   I know there are at least eight of those holes.

 

It seems that your preferred golf is playing a course that does not require (or requires little) local knowledge. There are plenty of courses where what you see, is what you get. 

 

I have to say I am big fan the opposite type of course, where you need to learn how to play the course in order to play it well and it not aways obvious or there is more than option for how to play a hole. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by 2bGood

[Golferpaul]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:12 PM, 2bGood said:

 

It seems that your preferred golf is playing a course that does not require (or requires little) local knowledge. There are plenty of courses where what you see, is what you get. 

 

 

Not at all.  I've enjoyed dozens of courses that don't resort to a large number blind shots to create excitement.  And almost all of them challenge the golfer with strategic options.   You don't need blind shots to challenge a golfer's ability to strategize.

 

But yes, I'm not a fan of a blind shot with a hazard just over the hill that you are hitting over.

 

I have only played one time on most of the 426 courses I have played, so that creates a problem with blind shots.

[2bGood]

18 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Not at all.  I've enjoyed dozens of courses that don't resort to a large number blind shots to create excitement.  And almost all of them challenge the golfer with strategic options.   You don't need blind shots to challenge a golfer's ability to strategize.

 

But yes, I'm not a fan of a blind shot with a hazard just over the hill that you are hitting over.

 

I have only played one time on most of the 426 courses I have played, so that creates a problem with blind shots.

Your definition of a blind shot and mine seem to differ significantly. For me (and I think most) a blind shot is hitting to a target the can not be seen at all. The plantation does not have a large number of these so this why I am confused by your statements. 

 

Maybe you can clarify what you mean by a  'blind shot' - is it any shot that you can't see everything between you and the target?

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by 2bGood

[Golferpaul]

On 12/3/2021 at 4:40 PM, 2bGood said:

Your definition of a blind shot and mine seem to differ significantly. For me (and I think most) a blind shot is hitting to a target the can not be seen at all. The plantation does not have a large number of these so this why I am confused by your statements. 

 

Maybe you can clarify what you mean by a  'blind shot' - is it any shot that you can't see everything between you and the target?

 

Let's go with this:  A Blind tee shot to me means I cannot determine how to play the hole when standing on the tee.   Not "everything", but at least enough to know where to hit.  

 

I know this is cured with a forecaddie or playing the course again, but I frequently play big name courses only one time so that solution doesn't work.

 

One of the worst I have played is the Faldo course in Portugal called Oceanico.  We spent time on every tee trying to figure out where to play.   The round took over five hours and it appeared that everyone else was having the same problem. 

 

The Plantation course is similar.  At least half of the tee shots are blind and after hitting into the high weeds twice, we started driving up the fairway to see what to do.  Fortunately, the pace of play was so slow that we didn't hold anyone up.  I'm sure it would be much better if I played it again.

[Robber6656]

18 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

Let's go with this:  A Blind tee shot to me means I cannot determine how to play the hole when standing on the tee.   Not "everything", but at least enough to know where to hit.  

 

I know this is cured with a forecaddie or playing the course again, but I frequently play big name courses only one time so that solution doesn't work.

 

One of the worst I have played is the Faldo course in Portugal called Oceanico.  We spent time on every tee trying to figure out where to play.   The round took over five hours and it appeared that everyone else was having the same problem. 

 

The Plantation course is similar.  At least half of the tee shots are blind and after hitting into the high weeds twice, we started driving up the fairway to see what to do.  Fortunately, the pace of play was so slow that we didn't hold anyone up.  I'm sure it would be much better if I played it again.

. I think you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. It’s a great course by great designers. Doesn’t suit your eye. I thought the Ocean course was way overrated. It’s all personal preference. 

[deadsolid...shank]

I struggle with vision, so I play a lot of “blind” shots!😀

 

But I agree, I think there is some discrepancy in how the term is being applied. Blind to me is not being  to see where to even start the ball. This situation seems much about how the hole plays (course knowledge, as several people have said). I didn’t find #8 at PB truly blind because at least there is an “aiming” rock that gives a line off the tee. 
 

I think there are probably a lot more holes where you can see the hole, but don’t know the “correct” line to play than there are truly blind shots. Dunes course at Prairie Club is a good example. You stand on the tee and many times have darn near a 360* view, but still have no idea what the correct line to take is.  
 

Just no substitute for course knowledge. In lieu of that, if it’s a bucket list course, a caddie, or even a fore caddie is invaluable. 
 

 

[cogsracing]

Golfer Paul,

 

We just missed each other.  I played on NOV 30 and then 2X on the BAY course later during my 10 day stay.  Like you---I watch the tournament every year--BUCKET LIST course for me.  66 yrs old 15 index.  Shot 86--par on #1 and #18--go figure.  Sprinkled in a few pars the rest of the day and 1 Birdie.  Played with some younger guys that played from the tips (#18) on a few holes.  Mostly played from the  REGULAR/RESORT tees .  CART PATH ONLY made it tough.  As far as the BLIND SHOTS go---there are quite a FEW out there.  The wind doesn't help either.  The other guys in my group were very helpful--1 MEMBER--local knowledge definitely helps.  I would play again without a doubt.  The BAY course is NICE also.

[golfortennis]

On 12/1/2021 at 5:12 PM, 2bGood said:

 

It seems that your preferred golf is playing a course that does not require (or requires little) local knowledge. There are plenty of courses where what you see, is what you get. 

 

I have to say I am big fan the opposite type of course, where you need to learn how to play the course in order to play it well and it not aways obvious or there is more than option for how to play a hole. 

 

That requires either money, as a number of these courses cost quite the pretty penny to play them, or time, as in you may be giving up the opportunity to play another course in order to play it again.  

 

I believe Lahinch(using it as it was mentioned earlier) is about $300 USD to play.  So you're in for $600 for two rounds.  Or you can put some of that money towards Royal County Down, or Portrush(or whatever is somewhat nearby, don't have a map in front of me).  

 

I don't disagree with your view in general, but it is easier said than done to play a course multiple times, especially when on a vacation.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

That requires either money, as a number of these courses cost quite the pretty penny to play them, or time, as in you may be giving up the opportunity to play another course in order to play it again.  

 

I believe Lahinch(using it as it was mentioned earlier) is about $300 USD to play.  So you're in for $600 for two rounds.  Or you can put some of that money towards Royal County Down, or Portrush(or whatever is somewhat nearby, don't have a map in front of me).  

 

I don't disagree with your view in general, but it is easier said than done to play a course multiple times, especially when on a vacation.

Yes great points, and I make the kind of choice you are talking about the time on a golf trip. You end up wanting to sample as many course as you can.

 

There is a few options to learn a course without playing it.(none to me are as good as playing it):

 

In no particular order:

1. If it tour stop watch the tournament 

2. Play the course in a video game (I am not a video game guy but I have done this and it was helpful)

3. YouTube videos of the course

4. Study the Yardage books

5. Caddies

6. Study the online tour

 

Of course I have to say I also don't mind playing a course with little pre-knowledge and accept I am not going to shoot my best score. Unlike the OP I don't find this frustrating and excites me to play he course again hopefully in the future. 

 

 

[HugoBear]

Plantation course is great.

The day I played the bay course, I quit around hole 13 or 14 as it was packed and super slow.

[ND2005]

On 1/8/2022 at 2:53 PM, golfortennis said:

 

That requires either money, as a number of these courses cost quite the pretty penny to play them, or time, as in you may be giving up the opportunity to play another course in order to play it again.  

 

I believe Lahinch(using it as it was mentioned earlier) is about $300 USD to play.  So you're in for $600 for two rounds.  Or you can put some of that money towards Royal County Down, or Portrush(or whatever is somewhat nearby, don't have a map in front of me).  

 

I don't disagree with your view in general, but it is easier said than done to play a course multiple times, especially when on a vacation.

 

Or you just manage your expectations and don't get upset if your score is a bit higher than usual the first time you play a destination course. 

 

First time out I just get a lot of enjoyment out of the discovery process as you experience the course. Even if it means I end up bogeying a hole because I fell into some non-obvious trouble off the tee. 

[dethman]

played plantation on christmas day, second time out there.  75 degree day, sunny, no wind in the morning.  absolutely gorgeous.  challenging shots, great conditions, no idea why anyone would have any problem playing out here. 

 

yes there were a few tee shots where you couldn't see all of the fairway (4, 6, 7, 10), but it was fairly obvious what line to take.

Edited January 12, 2022 by dethman

[dethman]

On 11/30/2021 at 2:57 PM, Golferpaul said:

Maybe "blind" is the wrong word.  Let's take hole #1 for example.  We hit good drives right down the middle of the fairway and when we got to our balls, one of them was on the canyon downslope.  That's blind, meaning you can't see where to hit from the tee.   I know there are at least eight of those holes.

 

just read this post with your definition of 'blind.' guess it means something different to me.

[me05501]

For a while there was a trend of putting a 150 yard pole in the center of fairways, especially at courses where the typical player might be seeing the course for the first and only time. 

 

I'm not sure why that faded away but I rarely see the 150 pole on courses these days. 

The last course I played that featured them was the Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain, which is quite hilly and gets a lot of play from visitors/tourists. Being able to stand on the tee and get an idea where the middle of the landing area is helps a lot with pace of play.  

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

For a while there was a trend of putting a 150 yard pole in the center of fairways, especially at courses where the typical player might be seeing the course for the first and only time. 

 

I'm not sure why that faded away but I rarely see the 150 pole on courses these days. 

The last course I played that featured them was the Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain, which is quite hilly and gets a lot of play from visitors/tourists. Being able to stand on the tee and get an idea where the middle of the landing area is helps a lot with pace of play.  

I'm sure maintenance was eager to get rid of them.   One thing I found was that they always weren't 150 markers.  Some were out there as aiming points.  Which were only good if you were a shortish hitter.

[ND2005]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

For a while there was a trend of putting a 150 yard pole in the center of fairways, especially at courses where the typical player might be seeing the course for the first and only time. 

 

I'm not sure why that faded away but I rarely see the 150 pole on courses these days. 

The last course I played that featured them was the Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain, which is quite hilly and gets a lot of play from visitors/tourists. Being able to stand on the tee and get an idea where the middle of the landing area is helps a lot with pace of play.  

 

Doesn't fit with the "natural" vibe that is en vogue with most architects and greenskeepers. 

 

Tobacco Road has decorative stovepipes that give you the line on many of the blind/tricky tee shots

[cogsracing]

A picture of several holes from Tobacco road can be used in a dictionary for the definition of "blind shot".

[vandyfan]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:39 PM, 2bGood said:

Yes great points, and I make the kind of choice you are talking about the time on a golf trip. You end up wanting to sample as many course as you can.

 

There is a few options to learn a course without playing it.(none to me are as good as playing it):

 

In no particular order:

1. If it tour stop watch the tournament 

2. Play the course in a video game (I am not a video game guy but I have done this and it was helpful)

3. YouTube videos of the course

4. Study the Yardage books

5. Caddies

6. Study the online tour

 

Of course I have to say I also don't mind playing a course with little pre-knowledge and accept I am not going to shoot my best score. Unlike the OP I don't find this frustrating and excites me to play he course again hopefully in the future. 

 

I would put at the top of this list "Google Earth Pro." Maybe it is because I am younger (38) or hyper analytical but it BLOWS ME AWAY that people play bucket list courses (like Kapalua for example) without studying every hole prior. If you are going to shell out hundreds of dollars and then complain "I didn't know that was there" that is on you. Google Earth Pro has elevation changes, distance mapping, in some cases 3D renderings (based on the time capsule history) and for god's sake Kapalua has street view on the cart paths. It is literally like 20 minutes of prep time to find yardages to run outs, build dispersion cones for landing areas in the fairways, etc. It is actually a hobby of mine @Golferpaulso for the next course you play tell me in advance and I will make you a yardage book in excel.

 

When I played Tobacco Road I watched like 3 different youtube vlogs, mapped it on google earth and I was good to go. The blind shot on 16, not a problem because I had an exact carry number, slope adjusted, to land in the center of the blind fairway along with landing zone + width. If I don't execute the shot, that's on me. Not knowing where the trouble is for a golf course that literally has exceptionally detailed satellite imagery that is updated every 3 years. ALSO ON ME. 

[vandyfan]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:48 PM, Golferpaul said:

In addition to the blind tee shots, almost every hole is a roller coaster, both the fairways and greens.    There is no doubt I would never play it again.

 

Also, are you sure you watch it every year if you are surprised by the lies out there? Like 90% of the shots hit out there are off some crazy a** hanging lie. It is basically mountain golf. You don't like mountain golf. Doesn't mean the course is overrated, it is just not your style and that's okay. I hated Caledonia Golf & Fish Club because it is not my style. I love hearing about why people don't like golf courses but I'm not following the logic on this one. 

[Showtime9]

I do not think its an overrated course and I cannot think of more than 1 blind tee shot. Yes, it is an expensive green fee but totally worth it because its not just a golf round but a experience.

 

To the OP, I suggest visiting the website or look up some videos on Youtube about the course if they are so concerned about scoring.