Reduce putter total weight, keep swingweight

[SubFour34]

Hi guys, my first real post here so thanks in advance. I'm trying to reduce the total weight of my putter. I just hate the feel of picking up what I consider a heavier putter, even if the swing weight is where I like it. Right now, in order to get the swingweight where I like it I have some counterbalance going on. My current specs are 350g carbon head, 86g grip with 35g of counterbalance for 121g total. The problems begin with where I want to go with the putter all seem to impact the swingweight in the wrong way that I want to go.

1. I want to go away from the Superstroke flatso 1.0 and back to a PP58 or something similar, I just like a much slimmer profile in my grip.

2. I want to reduce the counterbalance for obvious reasons. (total weight)

3. I'd like to add .5" to go from 34 to 34.5"

 

So i'm trying to figure out where to go with it. It seems like my only real option to get to the swingweight I like is to remove weight from the head? I'm really not against most any sort of DIY mods and I don't really care how things look as long as they serve the purpose and as long as I maintain the same feel/sound in the head. It should also be mentioned that I love this putter, that's the reason i'm going down these roads as opposed to just getting a 330g putter or something.  

 

I'm not sure if this is the right forum section but I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to reduce total weight but maintain a lighter swingweight. I'm assuming getting a lighter shaft will just add to a heavier swingweight similar to reducing butt end weight? And if i were to reduce headweight would anyone have any advice on how to go about that? drilling, where to drill etc. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by SubFour34

[balbowski]

So that little back portion of the head that says tungsten and 350 is a weight that odyssey changed out depending on length of putter. They would have had 330g and 340g options as well. It’s tough because the putter is so old, but you may be able to find one with the 330g option. Or at

least the 340g. 
 

If you are able to, your best bet to lighten up the head weight is to take off the weight and drill/machine out on the inside of the weight. Taking tungsten out will do more to lighten the head than drilling on the steel. 

[balbowski]

You could also look at getting a stroke lab shaft. That could

help lighten overall weight while keeping the counterbalance and having the grip change. 

[SubFour34]

23 minutes ago, balbowski said:

So that little back portion of the head that says tungsten and 350 is a weight that odyssey changed out depending on length of putter. They would have had 330g and 340g options as well. It’s tough because the putter is so old, but you may be able to find one with the 330g option. Or at

least the 340g. 
 

If you are able to, your best bet to lighten up the head weight is to take off the weight and drill/machine out on the inside of the weight. Taking tungsten out will do more to lighten the head than drilling on the steel. 

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, I never thought about trying to remove the tungsten weight and drilling out the inside, that's a really good idea to maintain cosmetics. 

[balbowski]

Just now, SubFour34 said:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, I never thought about trying to remove the tungsten weight and drilling out the inside, that's a really good idea to maintain cosmetics. 

With how pretty that head is, I would hate to put some ugly holes in it. 

[Stuart_G]

7 hours ago, SubFour34 said:

 

I just hate the feel of picking up what I consider a heavier putter, even if the swing weight is where I like it.

 

Sorry I know this is going to come out sounding wrong - but I really am just asking for the sake of clarification.  I'm not trying to be a smart a**.

 

You like the feel of the putter when you're over the ball and making the stroke - but you don't like the feel of the putter when you take it out of the bag?   Or is there any part of the setup or swing where the putter doesn't feel right to you?  If so when and how?

 

 

7 hours ago, SubFour34 said:

Right now, in order to get the swingweight where I like it I have some counterbalance going on. My current specs are 350g carbon head, 86g grip with 35g of counterbalance for 121g total. The problems begin with where I want to go with the putter all seem to impact the swingweight in the wrong way that I want to go.

1. I want to go away from the Superstroke flatso 1.0 and back to a PP58 or something similar, I just like a much slimmer profile in my grip.

2. I want to reduce the counterbalance for obvious reasons. (total weight)

3. I'd like to add .5" to go from 34 to 34.5"

 

So i'm trying to figure out where to go with it. It seems like my only real option to get to the swingweight I like is to remove weight from the head?

 

The biggest problem you have is thinking that the swing weight really is important with a putter - it's not.    Also the swing weight scale stops working - or what it reads stops being meaningful when you start messing with grip weight.  Then specific to the putter - the playing length really doesn't have the same effect on the head weight feel as it does with full swing clubs so the swing weight scale should never be used to adjust head weight in a putter for playing length changes.

 

So there are lots of problems in your understanding of swing weight and how the swing weight scale should be used.  Don't worry, you're not alone.  However, those ideas are more then likely getting in the way of you finding what you might really need to do to get a good fit.  They certainly are not helping.

 

With a putter: Total weight is important,  head weight is important, length is important, and even the grip side weight is important -  but the swing weight scale is a horrible tool to help you balance all those things out and tell you what you'll need.  Different individuals will have different sensitivities to all those specs and the ONLY truly effective way is find the best set is trail and error.    Forget the sw scale readings and just get out and test different configurations until you find what feels and performs the best.   I know the idea of a short cut like the swing weight scale is appealing to help save time and effort - but no such short cuts exist.

 

Start with the picking a grip for it's size and comfort - not it's weight and with the putter at the desired playing length that's best with your stroke and posture.   Those two things have to come first in the fitting process.

 

Start at the lightest you can get both the head weight and the butt side weight - then work up in weight from there.   Start with head weight increments in the 2-4 gm range and reduce the increment as you get close.   Grip side weight increments should be larger to start - maybe 10 gm or even 15 gm.  

 

Lead tape is best for playing with the head weight.  The Tour lock pro counterweights are great for experimenting with different grip side weights.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-counter-plugs/p/tlcp8v/

https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-weights/p/tlpplus/

 

I'd start with head weight first and grip weight second.  But it's an iterative process.   If the head weight does start out feeling to heavy then start with the butt weight increments first and only remove weight from the head if that doesn't work.

 

You may have to go through that cycle a couple times to really dial in the feel.  Every time you change one, you may have to go back and tweak the other to properly dial things in.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Billfitz]

What he said. 😏

[SubFour34]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry I know this is going to come out sounding wrong - but I really am just asking for the sake of clarification.  I'm not trying to be a smart a**.

 

You like the feel of the putter when you're over the ball and making the stroke - but you don't like the feel of the putter when you take it out of the bag?   Or is there any part of the setup or swing where the putter doesn't feel right to you?  If so when and how?

 

 

 

The biggest problem you have is thinking that the swing weight really is important with a putter - it's not.    Also the swing weight scale stops working - or what it reads stops being meaningful when you start messing with grip weight.  Then specific to the putter - the playing length really doesn't have the same effect on the head weight feel as it does with full swing clubs so the swing weight scale should never be used to adjust head weight in a putter for playing length changes.

 

So there are lots of problems in your understanding of swing weight and how the swing weight scale should be used.  Don't worry, you're not alone.  However, those ideas are more then likely getting in the way of you finding what you might really need to do to get a good fit.  They certainly are not helping.

 

With a putter: Total weight is important,  head weight is important, length is important, and even the grip side weight is important -  but the swing weight scale is a horrible tool to help you balance all those things out and tell you what you'll need.  Different individuals will have different sensitivities to all those specs and the ONLY truly effective way is find the best set is trail and error.    Forget the sw scale readings and just get out and test different configurations until you find what feels and performs the best.   I know the idea of a short cut like the swing weight scale is appealing to help save time and effort - but no such short cuts exist.

 

Start with the picking a grip for it's size and comfort - not it's weight and with the putter at the desired playing length that's best with your stroke and posture.   Those two things have to come first in the fitting process.

 

Start at the lightest you can get both the head weight and the butt side weight - then work up in weight from there.   Start with head weight increments in the 2-4 gm range and reduce the increment as you get close.   Grip side weight increments should be larger to start - maybe 10 gm or even 15 gm.  

 

Lead tape is best for playing with the head weight.  The Tour lock pro counterweights are great for experimenting with different grip side weights.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-counter-plugs/p/tlcp8v/

https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-weights/p/tlpplus/

 

I'd start with head weight first and grip weight second.  But it's an iterative process.   If the head weight does start out feeling to heavy then start with the butt weight increments first and only remove weight from the head if that doesn't work.

 

You may have to go through that cycle a couple times to really dial in the feel.  Every time you change one, you may have to go back and tweak the other to properly dial things in.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all this, and no you don't sound like a smart a**. And even if you did, some people need to hear it 🙋‍♂️. 

 

I think I agree with you on everything here but I should probably clarify a few things. First I've never actually checked a swingweight in my life, so I might be misusing the word but I'm more talking about how the head feels in my hands when I swing it. So yes I like how that feels but I think, like you said, there's a lot more to a stroke than just that and I don't love how the heavier putter feels overall. For example, I have a lighter total weight and headweight putter that is a little longer and has a smaller grip and the "swingweight" of both putters feels similar but the stoke doesn't feel the same.

 

So the trial and error that I know I want to do right now is two main things and that's lengthen the club and get a smaller grip. These changes are more for my personal preference. And I also know those will lessen the total weight of the club and change that "swingweight" feel. So just trying to figure out how to offset that. 

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, SubFour34 said:

Thanks for all this, and no you don't sound like a smart a**. And even if you did, some people need to hear it 🙋‍♂️. 

 

I think I agree with you on everything here but I should probably clarify a few things. First I've never actually checked a swingweight in my life, so I might be misusing the word but I'm more talking about how the head feels in my hands when I swing it. So yes I like how that feels but I think, like you said, there's a lot more to a stroke than just that and I don't love how the heavier putter feels overall. For example, I have a lighter total weight and headweight putter that is a little longer and has a smaller grip and the "swingweight" of both putters feels similar but the stoke doesn't feel the same.

 

As long as you are going by feel - that's great.  Some people get way too caught up in swing value readings they see when putting the club on a swing weight scale - that's what I wanted to make sure wasn't - or doesn't happen.

 

Swing weight really isn't a good judge of feel by itself - or rather it is but only in very limited context.  So best not to use the term "swing weight" when you're actually talking about feel.   

 

Feel is actually pretty subjective on what actual club characteristic does what to the feel.  Some people talk about head weight feel but in reality it's a lot more complex than that.

 

 

2 hours ago, SubFour34 said:

So the trial and error that I know I want to do right now is two main things and that's lengthen the club and get a smaller grip. These changes are more for my personal preference. And I also know those will lessen the total weight of the club and change that "swingweight" feel. So just trying to figure out how to offset that. 

 

I wouldn't jump the gun too much on what might happen.   Make the changes (grip and length) and see how it feels before trying to decide what else might need to be done.  I understand the desire to anticipate but it really isn't something you can predict reliably unless you've  had a lot of experience with similar types of changes (e.g. you already made the same exact change to a different putter).   You'll likely have much better success (and get there faster) if you just take it one step at a time.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Stuart_G