Did Golfers Of Yesteryear Have It Tougher?

[bladehunter]

57 minutes ago, PJE said:

Yes, it was harder. The Big Bertha driver was considered revolutionary for a reason. 
I played in the  persimmon, blades, and balata era. I am not nostalgic for it.
Metal woods, graphite shafts for woods, cavity back irons, options in iron shafts, and solid core urethane balls are progressive and not bad things.
Different than the previous era but so was hickory over steel and balata over gutta percha or whatever. 

I respect that opinion.  I do.  Experience you have beats my limited experience for sure. But I wonder.  Do you think that “ progressive “ paths have peaks where returns as a whole diminish ? 
 

what I mean is …… isn’t there a point where progress in the name of progress without thought for the larger picture is unhealthy ?   Example.  I personally believe that modern clubs hurt the game itself.  While masking as help because it puts money into the pockets of those who use the game for money.  The old adage of “ necessity being the mother of invention “ is still true with a golf swing.  I believe that swings get better if they are required to.  Albeit with some washouts for sure.  But let’s be real. Folks who loves golf back then.  Played , they didn’t quit because it was too hard.  I’d say swings are overall worse because they’re allowed to be. Handicaps haven’t dropped.  But clubs are so good folks get very very angry is someone mentions rolling them back. 
 

my point.  I agree on progress. But I believe the peak was reached as far as good for the game around 1995ish. Maybe before. 
 

just think of the environmental implications on drivers and fairways alone.  Wooden heads are 100 % degradable.  But they also are a renewable resource , and - they can be used for years and years without fear of obsoletion . ( assuming no crack type failure ).   On The other  hand. The things made now are planned to be in garbage piles inside of 8-10 years tops.  Most in 2-3.  Plus they are incredibly dirty to produce.  
 

now I can feel the eye rolls.  I’m not a particularly tree hugging guy.  I live on a farm for Pete’s sake.  But.  That point is a captain obvious thing that I see nobody ever mention.  

[Nard_S]

Performance of wound ball is different. There's more side spin, wind effects the ball more. Longest drives I ever hit was using NOS HT 100's and hitting them down wind with modern Ti. Upwind they knock down faster. They also grab the terrain of green more on putts. You have to play more break with them. Had them in play for over 25 rounds several years ago. I played Pro V & Bridgestone's S before that and do so now. Yeah they were 17 years old but they worked fine. They were also last generation wound, so they were really tweener's between old balata and pro v type ball. A classic Tour 100 ball was not any better. There's a reason no one uses them anymore.

 

In a way, the old school were playing a game that was a bit different.  It was more tee to green with higher use of shot shaping to keep them in play.  Today's guys shape shots but it's not as dramatic and is more about how the ball releases on landing.

 

Several years ago Spieth had a 25% make on 25 foot putts. The modern ball and agronomy helped with that but those also raised the stakes for modern player. They have to possess a short game that works at a higher level. The baseline has been raised.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Financially the PGA caliber golfers have it way easier than yesteryear.  Jack Nicklaus won $60,000 for the 1980 PGA Championship.  Phil Mickelson won $2,160,000 in the 2021 PGA Championship.  36X more than Jack.  Even adjusted for inflation Phil won >10x Jack.  

[smashdn]

With persimmon and blades it is much more about playing the game and less about just hitting the shot.  I have said before the game, especially the driver game, has went up over the trees so-to-speak and as such has become all about carry, maximizing carry and stopping it near where it hits.  You have pulled a few dimensions out of the shot you had to previously take into account - chiefly roll and spin*.

 

When I pull out the persimmon bag I have to throttle back.  I have to or I won't hit the sweet spot.  I get better, more consistent results swinging at 80% and that resulting yardage than swinging 100% and suffering the heel and toe shots, the thins and skies, that go significantly shorter and more wayward.  

 

The upside is if you really want to bend one either way you can.  You can also keep it lower more easily than with a modern driver. 

 

*What made Jack great was his distance, especially with the driver.  He was able to hit the much more controllable and predictable high fade while not giving up significant distance.  Back in the day, the way to getting the most distance was to hit a low, running draw.  the problem with that is you could, A) overcook it and hit a duck hook and/or B) it could run itself right into trouble.  You hit a big power fade then, just like today, you give up a touch of distance but you can more readily land it where you want and it doesn't run out into trouble by virtue of a steeper landing angle.

Edited November 29, 2021 by smashdn

[ChrisL52188]

Sam Snead is a good example of how he was able to compete through the years. He nearly won the 1974 PGA Championship at age 62 and had no trouble adapting to the changes, the clubs were not that much different when he was in his prime of 1950s. Golf equipment revolution came in the 1990s. So Yes I would argue that golfers had it harder in the past.  Another example... Seve Ballesteros. The guy was the greatest shotmaker the world has ever seen and I don't think be would have been as creative as he was if it were playing today. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by ChrisL52188

[PJE]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I respect that opinion.  I do.  Experience you have beats my limited experience for sure. But I wonder.  Do you think that “ progressive “ paths have peaks where returns as a whole diminish ? 
 

what I mean is …… isn’t there a point where progress in the name of progress without thought for the larger picture is unhealthy ?   Example.  I personally believe that modern clubs hurt the game itself.  While masking as help because it puts money into the pockets of those who use the game for money.  The old adage of “ necessity being the mother of invention “ is still true with a golf swing.  I believe that swings get better if they are required to.  Albeit with some washouts for sure.  But let’s be real. Folks who loves golf back then.  Played , they didn’t quit because it was too hard.  I’d say swings are overall worse because they’re allowed to be. Handicaps haven’t dropped.  But clubs are so good folks get very very angry is someone mentions rolling them back. 
 

my point.  I agree on progress. But I believe the peak was reached as far as good for the game around 1995ish. Maybe before. 
 

just think of the environmental implications on drivers and fairways alone.  Wooden heads are 100 % degradable.  But they also are a renewable resource , and - they can be used for years and years without fear of obsoletion . ( assuming no crack type failure ).   On The other  hand. The things made now are planned to be in garbage piles inside of 8-10 years tops.  Most in 2-3.  Plus they are incredibly dirty to produce.  
 

now I can feel the eye rolls.  I’m not a particularly tree hugging guy.  I live on a farm for Pete’s sake.  But.  That point is a captain obvious thing that I see nobody ever mention.  

I appreciate your thoughtful take on this issue.

I disagree that swings get better out of necessity or a player's desire for improvement. I think for most people their swing improves to a certain point and then it permanently plateaus. This is where the innovations in equipment have helped make the game more enjoyable for a greater number of people. It's still a hard game but if people can at least get the ball regularly airborne in a desired direction then a greater number of people will play and continue to play. 

As far as a diminishing return on innovation and club performance, I'd put it at 2010 instead of 1995 but this depends on the type of club. For example, I have blades from 1982 that perform exactly the same as contemporary blades. I played Ping ISI irons, circa 1996, for several years but I think the game improvement irons of today are easier to launch, go higher, and stop quicker than older GI irons. I have 10 year old drivers that perform essentially the same as today's drivers but they go further on off center strikes than the Big Bertha I used in the 1990s.  Again, getting back to the Bertha, it was night and day between that thing and a persimmon driver. Blade putters have been the same since Karsten Solheim threw down the Anser. 

Regarding wood sustainability and durability, I agree. Woods were either persimmon or laminated and if you could afford it, you'd get persimmon but every wood had a little different feel.  They were an implement but they were also organic. If you found one you liked, you kept it.

[Hickory4ever]

I started playing golf in 1973 when woods were actually made of wood.  I have since played early Taylormade (1980) through to the present tech toys. In the last five years, I have been playing everything from Hickory era clubs, Classic Steel to modern equipment as I was getting cynical about the way modern golf club marketing was progressing.

 

My home course was built in 1964 with the back tees at approximately 6400 yards, typical of the period. The strange thing is that despite all the technological changes, the average golfer has not improved much if any. There is no question that drivers have become easier to hit, but fairway woods seem to have gone the other way for the average guy. Don’t get me started on the jacked iron lofts. 
 

The older clubs are harder to hit but not as difficult as we are lead to believe. I would encourage any skeptics to give the old clubs a try, it will add to your appreciation for the game and you might add a greater creativity to your golf game. Personally, my game has improved and nothing gives me more satisfaction than giving a few skeptics a licking with my classic steel clubs. 
 

 

[smashdn]

51 minutes ago, PJE said:

If you found one you liked, you kept it.

 

That I think is a big deal that goes largely un-talked about.  

 

To my knowledge there were no tour trucks back then.  You had to have a fair deal of success and a club deal before you had guys making (wood) clubs for you at the MacGregors of the day.  

 

I have went through a hand full of old persimmons just messing around and collecting and playing.  I have a few that really behave well for me (to my standards) and still others that just don't perform as well despite being very similar.

 

There were no adjustable hosels to afford you the ability to just swap shafts and alter loft and lie and how the club sits at address. Certainly no computers doing advanced simulations to show engineers where to move what to get the COG right where they want it.  Everything was much more trial and error.  Which takes time.  And time you spend monkeying around looking for the perfect needle in your haystack of needles is time you aren't chipping, putting or hitting irons.

 

I have watched this several times.  The one thing that I really took away from it was where he says something to the effect that the would have to spend a fair bit more time working at driving in order to get the results he would want with the persimmon driver.  Basically, you cannot hit a persimmon driver indifferently and get decent results.

 

 

Look at a modern driver.  If I am keeping the ball impact in a spot the size of a shot glass bottom I am really grooving it.  I get some really good shots with impact dispersion like that.  Shot glass sized impact dispersion with persimmon is going to get you all sorts of results.  A good deal of which you ain't gonna like.

 

Now how does that manifest itself?  I'd say if you have 2-3 hours to practice a day as a pro (assuming you played a round that day too) you would only need to spend, what, maybe 15-20 minutes hitting driver?  The rest of the time you can dial wedges or putt or sand recovery or any number of other things that you need to be good at.

 

If Bryson spent half the time he does on driving on extra short iron practice or putting practice what would that look like for him?

 

 

[farmer]

I learned to play with wood, little irons, and the occasional balata ball.  I don't miss any part of the experience, apart from my age.  Golf was harder, but no one I knew ever thought of golf as hard, it was just "golf".  You accepted the game, all it implied and either liked it or not.  Hitting a golf ball is easier now, but I don't know that playing golf is much easier.

If you're interested in professional golf back in the day, read "Pro" by Frank Beard.  They drove to tournaments, stayed in motels, ate in cafeterias and DID THEIR OWN LAUNDRY!  Frank Beard was leading money winner in '69, IIRC, was regarded as one of the best ball strikers of his time, and had a swing that was a thing of beauty.

One thing that has remained constant:  there are a lot more guys who talk a good game than can actually play a good game.

[puttingmatt]

Simple answer,

YES, 

 

 

[Naptime]

They had to walk uphill both nines, in the snow.

 

 

[Shilgy]

8 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

That I think is a big deal that goes largely un-talked about.  

 

To my knowledge there were no tour trucks back then.  You had to have a fair deal of success and a club deal before you had guys making (wood) clubs for you at the MacGregors of the day.  

 

I have went through a hand full of old persimmons just messing around and collecting and playing.  I have a few that really behave well for me (to my standards) and still others that just don't perform as well despite being very similar.

 

There were no adjustable hosels to afford you the ability to just swap shafts and alter loft and lie and how the club sits at address. Certainly no computers doing advanced simulations to show engineers where to move what to get the COG right where they want it.  Everything was much more trial and error.  Which takes time.  And time you spend monkeying around looking for the perfect needle in your haystack of needles is time you aren't chipping, putting or hitting irons.

 

I have watched this several times.  The one thing that I really took away from it was where he says something to the effect that the would have to spend a fair bit more time working at driving in order to get the results he would want with the persimmon driver.  Basically, you cannot hit a persimmon driver indifferently and get decent results.

 

 

Look at a modern driver.  If I am keeping the ball impact in a spot the size of a shot glass bottom I am really grooving it.  I get some really good shots with impact dispersion like that.  Shot glass sized impact dispersion with persimmon is going to get you all sorts of results.  A good deal of which you ain't gonna like.

 

Now how does that manifest itself?  I'd say if you have 2-3 hours to practice a day as a pro (assuming you played a round that day too) you would only need to spend, what, maybe 15-20 minutes hitting driver?  The rest of the time you can dial wedges or putt or sand recovery or any number of other things that you need to be good at.

 

If Bryson spent half the time he does on driving on extra short iron practice or putting practice what would that look like for him?

 

 

Bryson is one of the better putters on tour…..must be practicing enough.

 

 

Was the persimmon and blades era more difficult than today? Yes and no.  Hitting a persimmon driver was no more difficult  than hitting todays three wood.  Bigger head and a similar length steel shaft.  The ball was a bit more difficult to control but it was mostly in the wind the new ball is much better.  Yeah, the new ball is longer but so have the courses gotten longer so net same.

 

Someone a bit ago mentioned Snead playing so long with essentially the same equipment.  That makes it easier, not more difficult, I would think than someone like Tiger, Phil, Love and company that started the game with persimmon and have needed to retool their games to accommodate the new gear.

[dosman]

Pic is circa 1975 PowerBilt Citation persimmons. Driver at back. Sweetest feeling clubs, retrofitted to Aldila Velocitor boron-graphite stiff in 1982. Driver is 43.5", 3w at 42.5".

 

These two (still in perfect condition) were at the front of my best round ever. Had to do some saving to afford those.

 

[Ferguson]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:13 PM, cardoustie said:

I used to play a blonde persimmon Mac driver with an aluminum insert and Maxfli HT100’s

 

pure drives were a unique fantastical feeling … miss those days and the clicking of spikes on paths 

 

I played Wilson Blue Ridge woods and irons - first set.  My first bag was a Voit, brown leather.  The small wood heads were the size of the modern hybrid.  They left very little margin for error as a kid in terms of ball striking.  "Right in the screws." 

 

Clicking spikes meant one thing - you were either starting a round or finishing one.  I vividly remember the day the club changed to soft spikes.  There were 5 guys sitting at a table swapping spikes - it was like the world was changing.  It was like the foundry plant shut down and we were turning in our heat suits. 

[lefthack]

Of course they did, the beverage cart didn't come along until the 60's!

[BIG STU]

On 11/28/2021 at 11:14 PM, RobotDoctor said:

I prefer vulcanized paper fiber of the classic woods into the early 60s, especially the MacGregor pro line woods  of the early/mid 50s (1950-1955).  There's something about a M43, 945W, M85W or 693 that is just so classic.  Then add a LFF into the mix.  All with paper fiber inserts.  Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ❤️

Yep the paper fiber inserts were SOP for me--- Back in the 70s I was visiting a course and their Pro Shop had a beautiful Blonde Power Bilt driver. It was love at first sight and I bought it on the spot. Never hit it first thing I did was take it over to a local shop and have the 3 pin insert replaced with a 6 screw paper fiber insert. My old man said why did I pay full price for it? He could have gotten one at cost which was at the time about $50 or more cheaper. I told him but you could not have gotten that one. He said well you could have called me. I told him no that I was a guest there at that CC and would not do that to my host and besides the Pro there had to eat too. Best investment I have ever made and my most beloved club ever. Carried it darn near 15 years and cracked it 3 times the last one fatal. I have 3 paper insert drivers now 2 Izettes and another blonde Power Bilt. I only hit Balata balls or old school Precept Ladies balls with them

[nitram]

16 hours ago, farmer said:

 Golf was harder, but no one I knew ever thought of golf as hard, it was just "golf".  You accepted the game, all it implied and either liked it or not.  Hitting a golf ball is easier now, but I don't know that playing golf is much easier.

 

If you're interested in professional golf back in the day, read "Pro" by Frank Beard.  They drove to tournaments, stayed in motels, ate in cafeterias and DID THEIR OWN LAUNDRY! 

I agree with what Farmer wrote in bold. Golf took more resolve to hang with it and learn how to play before the late '90's.

 

The man who taught the game to me was (to this day) the best golfer I've ever seen. He caddied in the 50's and 60's on both the men and women's "big tours" and beat Snead, Hogan, and Nelson in money games, but could never play on the Tour because he was 100% Native American. We had this discussion about the differences in playing golf in 2016 vs yesteryear shortly before he passed away. He thought about it for a long minute and finally said, "Golf was much simpler back then. You learned to play with what you had and didn't think twice about it. There was always someone who'd have something new, but that was never a guaranteed improvement." He also said the introduction of the Pro V1 in 2000 changed the game overnight and was the best improvement in golf during his lifetime.

 

One more thing he said that day under a willow tree was there was more camaraderie among the players then than now. They used to travel together and share motel rooms. If one guy won some money he'd help one or two others who might need a little help. Oh, and there were definitely more women and whiskey involved then as compared to now. It seems as if V.O. was the liquor of choice back in the mid-50's thru the late 60's.

 

 

 

 

[dlygrisse]

Tougher?  at the pro level?  Sure.  But not because of equipment or the course conditions, they all played with the same stuff, so it's relative.  The equipment back then was not that hard to use, especially when you consider most courses on the tour are where the member tees are today.  250 yards would get it done.  The, real difference is money.  Like most all sports they money, travel, training, medical care, technology is much better.  Arnie flying from tournament to tournament was a revolution, most guys car pooled across the country, trying to scrape up enough money to eat.  Hogan almost quit the tour when someone stole the tires on his car.  

 

I started playing in the '80's when the switch was happening from persimmon to steel, forged to Ping, balata to urethane.  Everything is better now, the bags are lighter, the shoes more comfy, the clothes wick moisture, the clubs, the balls, the instruction.  

 

At the end of the day, as in the past, the guy who is the most mentally tough, who wants it the most, who works the hardest will still usually win.  Tiger had so much money so early he didn't care about paying his bills, he just played for glory. Some guys are just happy to be cashing checks, a great example would be CHIII.  He is a money making machine, but hardly wins, doesn't make any of the team events, never contends in majors, he just rolls along making cuts and cashing checks.  50 years ago he would be selling insurance now, or be struggling to stay on tour and he would have a club pro job during the winter.  Byron Nelson had arguably the greatest season in the history of golf, and all he wanted was to save enough money to buy a ranch, so he could earn a steady living and lead a normal life.  

 

Hard times make hard men, Hard men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men make hard times....

[gvogel]

11 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Bryson is one of the better putters on tour…..must be practicing enough.

 

 

Was the persimmon and blades era more difficult than today? Yes and no.  Hitting a persimmon driver was no more difficult  than hitting todays three wood.  Bigger head and a similar length steel shaft.  The ball was a bit more difficult to control but it was mostly in the wind the new ball is much better.  Yeah, the new ball is longer but so have the courses gotten longer so net same.

 

Someone a bit ago mentioned Snead playing so long with essentially the same equipment.  That makes it easier, not more difficult, I would think than someone like Tiger, Phil, Love and company that started the game with persimmon and have needed to retool their games to accommodate the new gear.

I beg to disagree about your statement that hitting yesterday's driver was no more difficult than today's three wood.  The shaft was a little longer, and there was much less loft.  Anytime you reduce loft, you make hitting the club harder.

 

In fact, a lot of drivers for good, but not great, players measured 12* loft.  That is more comparable to a 2-wood.  They surely didn't go as far as modern drivers.  But modern drivers also benefit from the larger club area, precise weighting, longer shafts, and increased COR.

 

I don't believe that I have skied a modern driver in the past 15 years.  But I sure did hit a pop up occasionally; not often, but once in awhile.  And duck hooks?

[Shilgy]

22 minutes ago, gvogel said:

I beg to disagree about your statement that hitting yesterday's driver was no more difficult than today's three wood.  The shaft was a little longer, and there was much less loft.  Anytime you reduce loft, you make hitting the club harder.

 

In fact, a lot of drivers for good, but not great, players measured 12* loft.  That is more comparable to a 2-wood.  They surely didn't go as far as modern drivers.  But modern drivers also benefit from the larger club area, precise weighting, longer shafts, and increased COR.

 

I don't believe that I have skied a modern driver in the past 15 years.  But I sure did hit a pop up occasionally; not often, but once in awhile.  And duck hooks?

Like you I played in that era…born in ‘57. My point is it was no more difficult to center hit persimmon than a modern three wood. Is the modern more forgiving? Of course. For those rare times you miss it.     
Mind you we are discussing this from tour standards…not the 25 handicap player.  He has benefited greatly from the new tech and if that was the discussion I would agree.  But we are talking tour guys and I am speaking from a relatively low handicap perspective.

 

 

Taylormade strong 3 wood

170cc

43.25” 

13.5* loft

 

 

Classic 50's Series | Persimmon Driver

• Handcrafted in U.S.A.
• Material: Solid USA Persimmon.
• Shape: Classic Pear.
• Driver Head Size: 190cc.
• Loft: 11 degrees.
• Lie: 55 degrees.
• Standard Length: 43.5″ (Steel), 44″ (Graphite)
• Insert: Black cycolac.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Shilgy

[Naptime]

I am old enough to have used a maple driver and a hand-me-down persimmon 4 wood and blades.  I doubt that I score any better with my 2 year old clubs, but I have more fun and my hands don't hurt on mishits.  I don't really think the old pros suffered, more important to score lower than the other guys regardless of the actual total score.  

[smashdn]

12 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Bryson is one of the better putters on tour…..must be practicing enough.

 

He is about .4 strokes per round from being the best.  "Enough" is the enemy of greatness.

[smashdn]

Thinning one of the Adams or TM 3 woods with that channel of silly putty in the sole produces a low, rifle like shot.  Thinning a persimmon driver for me produces a gouge in the tee box appropriate for planting tater sets.

[dlygrisse]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Like you I played in that era…born in ‘57. My point is it was no more difficult to center hit persimmon than a modern three wood. Is the modern more forgiving? Of course. For those rare times you miss it.     
Mind you we are discussing this from tour standards…not the 25 handicap player.  He has benefited greatly from the new tech and if that was the discussion I would agree.  But we are talking tour guys and I am speaking from a relatively low handicap perspective.

 

 

Taylormade strong 3 wood

170cc

43.25” 

13.5* loft

 

 

Classic 50's Series | Persimmon Driver

• Handcrafted in U.S.A.
• Material: Solid USA Persimmon.
• Shape: Classic Pear.
• Driver Head Size: 190cc.
• Loft: 11 degrees.
• Lie: 55 degrees.
• Standard Length: 43.5″ (Steel), 44″ (Graphite)
• Insert: Black cycolac.

I saw an interview somewhere with Tiger he said that he took his old Cobra driver that he won the '97 Masters with to the range.   He said he "couldn't hit it" he hit his current 3 wood farther.  Not that he couldn't really hit it, just that he couldn't make it perform with is aging body, modern balls, on modern tour distance courses.  Augusta National back then was around 6800 yards I believe.  But yes, those old clubs were not that hard to hit, you just had to hit them close to the sweetspot, if not it got ugly real quick.  Pros don't have the sweetspot issue like a 25 handicap.  I had an old Wilson laminated 3 wood with my first set that I could crush, I only wish I could hit my modern 3 wood like I could hit that club with my 18 year old body.  🙂

[gvogel]

On 11/30/2021 at 11:53 AM, dlygrisse said:

I saw an interview somewhere with Tiger he said that he took his old Cobra driver that he won the '97 Masters with to the range.   He said he "couldn't hit it" he hit his current 3 wood farther.  Not that he couldn't really hit it, just that he couldn't make it perform with is aging body, modern balls, on modern tour distance courses.  Augusta National back then was around 6800 yards I believe.  But yes, those old clubs were not that hard to hit, you just had to hit them close to the sweetspot, if not it got ugly real quick.  Pros don't have the sweetspot issue like a 25 handicap.  I had an old Wilson laminated 3 wood with my first set that I could crush, I only wish I could hit my modern 3 wood like I could hit that club with my 18 year old body.  🙂

Jay Haas was a pretty good pro, and played on the Ryder Cup team in 1995 at Oak Hill in Rochester.  On the 18th hole in his singles competition, he skied his driver about 150 yards dead left into the trees.

 

That doesn't happen with a modern driver.

Edited December 1, 2021 by gvogel

[bscinstnct]

Sure, the older equipment was much less forgiving. And some have said that, especially the modern driver, has leveled the field a bit. But they all played the same stuff.

 

I think the main reason the game was harder back in the day. 
 

Was that all the guys were hungover!

 

“Roger Maltbie walked into the locker room the other day with a bottle of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other. The graying, plump veteran was the picture of a throwback, a symbol of a bygone era on the professional golf tour when lifestyles were fast and loose and fitness was an afterthought.”

 

"You used to buy drinks after shooting 65," said Bruce Lietzke, a PGA Tour member since 1975. "Now you go ride a stationary bicycle to celebrate a 64."

Guys used to play with hangovers and finish in the top 25," Lietzke said. "You can't do that anymore."

 

 

"We didn't have a fitness trailer; we had the Holiday Inn bar," Pearce said. "We kept doing 12-ounce curls. That's all we did."

You knew where to find them at 2 a.m. It was last call.

"We had about 15 strong closers back then," Pearce said. "I don't know of anybody strong enough to close now. It takes a lot of strength to close a bar and then perform."

 

https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19930613&slug=1706213

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hickory4ever]

To compare the lofts from the persimmon/real wood era to the current equipment needs some adjustments. Real wood clubs have a higher centre of gravity because they are solid. Current clubs are hollow with weights placed lower.

 

An 11 degree Driver from yesteryears will compare more to 9-9.5 degrees now. The same applies to fairways. When that adjustment is taken into account, the older clubs are not as difficult to hit in my experience. 
 

 

[oikos1]

24 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Jay Haas was a pretty good pro, and played on the Ryder Cup team in 1995 at Oak Hill in Rochester.  On the 18th hole in his singles competition, he skied his driver about 150 yards dead right into the trees.

 

That doesn't happen with a modern driver.

What?  Mishits don't happen?

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

He is about .4 strokes per round from being the best.  "Enough" is the enemy of greatness.

How many strokes per round does he gain on that guy off the tee? #Workhardestforthelargestgains

[RobotDoctor]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Like you I played in that era…born in ‘57. My point is it was no more difficult to center hit persimmon than a modern three wood. Is the modern more forgiving? Of course. For those rare times you miss it.     
Mind you we are discussing this from tour standards…not the 25 handicap player.  He has benefited greatly from the new tech and if that was the discussion I would agree.  But we are talking tour guys and I am speaking from a relatively low handicap perspective.

 

 

Taylormade strong 3 wood

170cc

43.25” 

13.5* loft

 

 

Classic 50's Series | Persimmon Driver

• Handcrafted in U.S.A.
• Material: Solid USA Persimmon.
• Shape: Classic Pear.
• Driver Head Size: 190cc.
• Loft: 11 degrees.
• Lie: 55 degrees.
• Standard Length: 43.5″ (Steel), 44″ (Graphite)
• Insert: Black cycolac.

You might want to practice a little more. The impact pattern is the size of a quarter.  😉

 

Great impact area!!!