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Do I need a full swing rebuild or can I fix any issues that I have?


Axon7
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I have a tendency to miss the strike towards the heel with a really bad shot being a sh#nk.

Some days I can go out and stripe it but 2 days later it’s off the heel again or big pull hooks

I think from looking at other videos i have an open club face but for the life of me I can’t seem to keep square on the back swing. Is there any other major issues I need to overall to try and improve?

Edited by Axon7
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pretty sure I know where that is lol..

 

you are too close and cramped over the ball imo. I think you could move the ball 6" further away. You also want to keep a little flex in the right knee. A front on view would help, if you slide you are going to have an inconsistent strike. Other than that swing looks promising.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Axon7 said:

Thanks for the reply, do you mean to keep more flex in the knee during the backswing?

I thought the arms were supposed to hang straight down during set up, if I move the ball out won’t it mean my arms are more out on an angle?

 

yes on the bs.

 

And yes, your arms will angle out a little rather than hang straight down (I suppose you could bend more at the waist but your posture is fine imo). I would have a bigger space between your hands and crotch one way or another. 

 

disclaimer Im not a pro and could be wrong..

 

 

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In short, just need some adjustments.

 

butt a bit back of heels. probably going to need to be further from ball.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

 

two other things.   need more right hip depth - you appear to bring left hip out more than move right hip back and around.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQtVHCrjUUK/

 

face does appear bit open at p6 - need some motorcycle somewhere in backswing/transition ,ie lead wrist flex.    everyone opens the face in the backswing and no one keeps the face square to the path but good player flex the wrist somewhere in the backswing/transition to start closing the face early versus late via a flip/roll.

 

Face on would tell more about transition - your arms aren't moving fast enough in the transition so they trail the pivot leading to the body stall and then the roll release (face open adds to this).

 

Not some rebuild just improvements.   Decent bones just need some good guidance - lessons with a good instructor online, in person.   

 

 

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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At setup , you need to relax your arms - this  means adding some SLIGHT bend to your arms at setup

 

The centerpiece of your problems is an almost straight right leg and a left leg that is too bent  at the top.

This causes two problems 

1. weight moves toward the outside of your rear foot - look closely at your rear foot in the two screen shots below

Instead you should be loading weight into the middle inside of your rear foot  

2. It enables too much pelvic “rotation” , which encourages  your right elbow  to move behind the seam of your shirt 


By 9:00 in your downswing the orientation of your upper arm is too horizontal . Compare your right elbow position at 9:00 to that if Tiger .

From that position it is impossible to get your right elbow on and in front of your right hip at impact,  so you stall your pivot and flip

 

Suggestions

1. maintain some bend of your rear leg going back

2. place a sponge ,small spongy ball or 1/2 tennis ball under the middle outside  of your rear foot . This will act as tactile feedback to help you load properly going back

Between 1 and 2, you will shorten your backswing and prevent your right elbow from getting behind your body 

3. Watch the “elbow quiz” on YouTube . The rear elbow should move both down and towards the TARGET LINE 

 

 

5EA9AB9B-ABA3-4449-A7A8-847081E59B0A.png

00253A17-3EA7-48A5-9DD5-1EA35E07EE4A.png

E78C274C-BAF4-4918-A879-AE9A899C76C1.png

504B8E16-0CAC-45FB-94E1-2381343C4C4A.png

Edited by golfarb1
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8 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

yes on the bs.

 

And yes, your arms will angle out a little rather than hang straight down (I suppose you could bend more at the waist but your posture is fine imo). I would have a bigger space between your hands and crotch one way or another. 

 

disclaimer Im not a pro and could be wrong..

Thank you

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7 hours ago, glk said:

In short, just need some adjustments.

 

butt a bit back of heels. probably going to need to be further from ball.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

 

two other things.   need more right hip depth - you appear to bring left hip out more than move right hip back and around.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQtVHCrjUUK/

 

face does appear bit open at p6 - need some motorcycle somewhere in backswing/transition ,ie lead wrist flex.    everyone opens the face in the backswing and no one keeps the face square to the path but good player flex the wrist somewhere in the backswing/transition to start closing the face early versus late via a flip/roll.

 

Face on would tell more about transition - your arms aren't moving fast enough in the transition so they trail the pivot leading to the body stall and then the roll release (face open adds to this).

 

Not some rebuild just improvements.   Decent bones just need some good guidance - lessons with a good instructor online, in person.   

 

 

Ok so the club face has to start squaring earlier in the transition/downswing and the right hip needs to work back more rather than left hip out. 
which should I start working on first? Ideally both I know but I don’t want to have 5 swing thoughts until I get one engrained 

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7 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

At setup , you need to relax your arms - this  means adding some SLIGHT bend to your arms at setup

 

The centerpiece of your problems is an almost straight right leg and a left leg that is too bent  at the top.

This causes two problems 

1. weight moves toward the outside of your rear foot - look closely at your rear foot in the two screen shots below

Instead you should be loading weight into the middle inside of your rear foot  

2. It enables too much pelvic “rotation” , which encourages  your right elbow  to move behind the seam of your shirt 


By 9:00 in your downswing the orientation of your upper arm is too horizontal . Compare your right elbow position at 9:00 to that if Tiger .

From that position it is impossible to get your right elbow on and in front of your right hip at impact,  so you stall your pivot and flip

 

Suggestions

1. maintain some bend of your rear leg going back

2. place a sponge ,small spongy ball or 1/2 tennis ball under the middle outside  of your rear foot . This will act as tactile feedback to help you load properly going back

Between 1 and 2, you will shorten your backswing and prevent your right elbow from getting behind your body 

3. Watch the “elbow quiz” on YouTube . The rear elbow should move both down and towards the TARGET LINE 

 

 

5EA9AB9B-ABA3-4449-A7A8-847081E59B0A.png

00253A17-3EA7-48A5-9DD5-1EA35E07EE4A.png

E78C274C-BAF4-4918-A879-AE9A899C76C1.png

504B8E16-0CAC-45FB-94E1-2381343C4C4A.png

Thank you for the feedback. 
So weight on the backswing should transition to instep of my right foot and both legs should keep a similar knee bend to them through the swing?

And the right elbow needs to stay more connected/out in front of body rather than getting stuck behind?

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49 minutes ago, Axon7 said:

Thank you for the feedback. 
So weight on the backswing should transition to instep of my right foot and both legs should keep a similar knee bend to them through the swing?

And the right elbow needs to stay more connected/out in front of body rather than getting stuck behind?

 

if you create a bit more room at address that will help the right elbow issue i would think. The lead leg will always bend more on the backswing. 

 

Need to see a front on shot though really 

 

 

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1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

if you create a bit more room at address that will help the right elbow issue i would think. The lead leg will always bend more on the backswing. 

 

Need to see a front on shot though really 

Ok thank you. 
I’ll work on getting a bit more room in the setup and I’ll try and post a front on video

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5 hours ago, Axon7 said:

Ok so the club face has to start squaring earlier in the transition/downswing and the right hip needs to work back more rather than left hip out. 
which should I start working on first? Ideally both I know but I don’t want to have 5 swing thoughts until I get one engrained 

Setup

face

 

why face  2 takes

 

 


 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CF0UVhfp63J/

 

 

and for when you want to work on pivot consider this video

 

 

and last but not least really look into finding a good teaching professional.

Edited by glk
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Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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23 hours ago, milesgiles said:

pretty sure I know where that is lol..

 

you are too close and cramped over the ball imo. I think you could move the ball 6" further away. You also want to keep a little flex in the right knee. A front on view would help, if you slide you are going to have an inconsistent strike. Other than that swing looks promising.

Don't reach for the ball.

I rarely see anyone stand too close to the ball. In fact, I tend to agree with Byron Nelson and Johnny Miller, who've said you can't stand too close to it. To find your correct distance from the ball, get in your swing posture, and let your arms hang freely. Then bring your hands together. My $0.02. 

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49 minutes ago, Moonlightgrm said:
Don't reach for the ball.

I rarely see anyone stand too close to the ball. In fact, I tend to agree with Byron Nelson and Johnny Miller, who've said you can't stand too close to it. To find your correct distance from the ball, get in your swing posture, and let your arms hang freely. Then bring your hands together. My $0.02. 

 

his hands are nearly touching his shorts, Stenson does that but not too many others.. Ive had no issues standing further from the ball and I think it might help the specific issues in the op, but I could be wrong.. 

 

 

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I would be cautious of any instructional help that involves still photos of some world class player compared to yourself.  That’s pretty much just saying “Hey, if your as tall as tiger, built like tiger and have the same fitness level as tiger you just need to get in these positions and boom your a playa!”  
 

If none of that applies it will be “BOOM” your game is gone.  

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6 minutes ago, b_f_c_99 said:

I would be cautious of any instructional help that involves still photos of some world class player compared to yourself.  That’s pretty much just saying “Hey, if your as tall as tiger, built like tiger and have the same fitness level as tiger you just need to get in these positions and boom your a playa!”  
 

If none of that applies it will be “BOOM” your game is gone.  

 

dont think anyone is saying that 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

dont think anyone is saying that 

In your case miles I would agree.  But as I look at this thread I see a lot of photos and links to videos.  And many of those videos are well done and informative and certainly can address certain peoples problems.  The trick  is figuring out if your that person before you go down a rabbit hole of destruction and confusion.

Edited by b_f_c_99
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19 hours ago, Axon7 said:

Thank you for the feedback. 
So weight on the backswing should transition to instep of my right foot and both legs should keep a similar knee bend to them through the swing?

And the right elbow needs to stay more connected/out in front of body rather than getting stuck behind?

The instep of the foot is the bony structure on top of the arch of the foot. I prefer to think of the pressure on the rear foot at the top as towards the bottom inside of rear foot.

 

Unless you possess superior flexibility , the front hip/ knee will bend more than the rear going back. A good checkpoint is that a small amount of space between the knees at the TOP can be seen in a dtl video. A little more than can be seen in the first video, but not as much in the second video.

And yes, This will result in the right elbow and arms being more in front of the body at the top and not stuck or behind the seam of your shirt.

E6E2F763-FE60-4E8A-A0F4-495280029B46.png

FBA515FF-B4E1-4955-90EB-6FA795D8AA02.png

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4 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

The instep of the foot is the bony structure on top of the arch of the foot. I prefer to think of the pressure on the rear foot at the top as towards the bottom inside of rear foot.

 

Unless you possess superior flexibility , the front hip/ knee will bend more than the rear going back. A good checkpoint is that a small amount of space between the knees at the TOP can be seen in a dtl video. A little more than can be seen in the first video, but not as much in the second video.

And yes, This will result in the right elbow and arms being more in front of the body at the top and not stuck or behind the seam of your shirt.

E6E2F763-FE60-4E8A-A0F4-495280029B46.png

FBA515FF-B4E1-4955-90EB-6FA795D8AA02.png

Sorry I meant inside of foot not instep which I think you’re saying is the correct feeling. 
So if I can get the back swing looking closer to the first pic you posted (rather than over turning and getting stuck behind my body) that should help a few issues?

Along with getting club face squared earlier 

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YES, but I do NOT want to give the impression that the rear leg will not straighten as you make your backswing . IT DOES, but not to the point where it is close to straight or locked . 
Patrick Kelley does a very good job of presenting short YouTube videos on specific areas of the swing . Enclosed are 3 videos addressing the right elbow. The first shows a good position of the right elbow going back

The second is a one arm drlll emphasizing the right elbow going down and the third shows how the right elbow should be in front of the right hip in the lower downswing.

Edited by golfarb1
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So I managed to hit some balls today and was focusing mainly on trying to get a squarer face as well as not getting the right leg as straight in the backswing(which I thought I was doing but the video says otherwise. 
Swing felt horrible and didn’t hit one good shot 😐

Any advice from the videos?

The first two are half swings with a wedge and the third video is a shank with a 6 iron

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no surprise.  As shauheen noted in his video when making a change your brain still wants to do the same old, same old with the rest of the body and has to adapt.   And sometimes changes need to be made in pairs.   And a session, to change motion, should never be judged on ball flight but rather on how well the new motion is being incorporated.   Change takes times.   Partial swings and slow swings.     One session is just a start.   
 

If you are going to practice these things then do Goldilocks drills.   In closing the face - close it a lot, then keep it really open then do it just right.  Should hit a big hook, big slice, relatively straight ball.     Can do this at slow speed with shorter swings to start.   

good news is from a quick look, it appears you are getting wrist flexing and face closing more - so that is a big plus.  The key is to stick with it and not abandon it cause you hit it poorly in a first attempt or even numerous.    Changing what we have done for years can be difficult.


 

from face on ball looks too far back.  Should be off shirt logo.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CTPfp2Qr7rN/

Edited by glk

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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the makn thing I do when trying to make changes is swing slowly into a net. Still hitting the ball, but it gives me more time during the swing to get it right. Can't emphasise enough you need to keep filming, every session, otherwise you are in the dark..

 

I still think you are too 'on top' of the ball, but I do see your right knee flexing a little compared to how it was.

 

front on though, setup is off as glk noted. Ball and hands need to be further forward. From there your tailbone is doing the opposite of what it should. It needs to go towards the target on the backswing, and away on the throughswing. As it is you are swaying and that is going to lead to inconsistency 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Axon7 said:

So I managed to hit some balls today and was focusing mainly on trying to get a squarer face as well as not getting the right leg as straight in the backswing(which I thought I was doing but the video says otherwise. 
Swing felt horrible and didn’t hit one good shot 😐

Any advice from the videos?

The first two are half swings with a wedge and the third video is a shank with a 6 iron

FullSizeRender.mov FullSizeRender.mov FullSizeRender.mov

I remember being at one of Monte's clinics and he said very clearly.  "If some tip or change your working on doesn't feel better (not hit the ball better) in a few swings,  it's not for you."

 

I suspect the reason your tendency to hit it in the heel has more to do with:

Athletic Instinct.   Meaning what is your natural perception of how to hit the ball.  I know this sounds like WTF, but examine it mentally.  Is the club motion to you an up and down vertical motion?  Is it more of the ball is out to the side  there I'm going to 'sweep' it forward.  It it a little of both?  

 

The golf club is a tool,  how your mental/athletic instinct believes the tool works is a large part of an effective golf swing.  No amount of drills, slow motion swings, grip or set-up changes will help if your fighting how the tool should be used.  And doing things that are totally opposite of your instinct will send you down a hole that can be difficult to come back from.

 

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4 hours ago, glk said:

no surprise.  As shauheen noted in his video when making a change your brain still wants to do the same old, same old with the rest of the body and has to adapt.   And sometimes changes need to be made in pairs.   And a session, to change motion, should never be judged on ball flight but rather on how well the new motion is being incorporated.   Change takes times.   Partial swings and slow swings.     One session is just a start.   
 

If you are going to practice these things then do Goldilocks drills.   In closing the face - close it a lot, then keep it really open then do it just right.  Should hit a big hook, big slice, relatively straight ball.     Can do this at slow speed with shorter swings to start.   

good news is from a quick look, it appears you are getting wrist flexing and face closing more - so that is a big plus.  The key is to stick with it and not abandon it cause you hit it poorly in a first attempt or even numerous.    Changing what we have done for years can be difficult.


 

from face on ball looks too far back.  Should be off shirt logo.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CTPfp2Qr7rN/

Absolutely correct.
Changing motor skills involve creating new neural pathways in the brain.

At first new neural pathways are not well developed , so many repetitions  are vital

to strengthen this new neural pathway. 
But equally important and possibly more difficult  is to avoid regressing to your old , incorrect , comfortable , well ingrained patterns. These old patterns are based upon well developed neural pathways; stress in  developing a new motor skill ,such as initial poor strikes, make it easy to fall back to your old habits. That is among the reasons why one should ditch regular speed , full length swings when making swing changes

Edited by golfarb1
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@Axon7 - just be cautious.  Adjusting your swing can make you better, but can also make you worse if you make the wrong adjustments.  

 

In this thread alone:

Posture Changes 

Hip Adjustments - changes such as "keep flex in your trail leg" usually cause pelvis / hip changes

Elbow Adjustments

Pressure Placement

 

Not saying the advice from anyone is incorrect.  But it's like going to see 8 doctors in one day and having them all prescribe a different medication.  Not only is some of the medication not going to work for you, but some of the medication could conflict with the other medication and you could have an allergic reaction to one of them (E.G. Shanks) 🙂 

 

In my opinion, it's way too much to take in at once and not an efficient way to improve. 

 

Bite the bullet and see an instructor.  Repetition makes permanent, not perfect.  Before I put in a bunch of reps, I would be 100% sure what I'm doing is correct.    

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Look at the the 3 screen shots below.

At address it is obvious that you are playing the ball too far back in your stance . Among other things this will affect any shoulder tilt that you will normally have from your right hand below your left on the grip. 

Now let’s take a different tac. I want you to diagnose your own swing problems by concentrating on your RIGHT-side pelvic/ hip movement at 9:00  in your backswing and at the top relative to their setup position in the front video.  Specifically is your pelvis moving laterally or is it rotating or both and at what points in your backswing are any such movements occurring . 
Next look at the angle of the left side of your spine at the top.Is it tilted away or toward  the target. 
Next , has anything changed about your head position at the top. Has it moved toward or away from the target - has the tilt of your head changed from setup?

7649CF16-BF66-4C2D-B32B-16F712C01D54.png

9EA21208-8826-4A64-8D85-52B28786D482.png

92FF2203-F048-4EFA-8AF1-1BFF57698F9B.png

Edited by golfarb1
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1 hour ago, golfarb1 said:

Look at the the 3 screen shots below.

At address it is obvious that you are playing the ball too far back in your stance . Among other things this will affect any shoulder tilt that you will normally have from your right hand below your left on the grip. 

Now let’s take a different tac. I want you to diagnose your own swing problems by concentrating on your RIGHT-side pelvic/ hip movement at 9:00  in your backswing and at the top relative to their setup position in the front video.  Specifically is your pelvis moving laterally or is it rotating or both and at what points in your backswing are any such movements occurring . 
Next look at the angle of the left side of your spine at the top.Is it tilted away or toward  the target. 
Next , has anything changed about your head position at the top. Has it moved toward or away from the target - has the tilt of your head changed from setup?

7649CF16-BF66-4C2D-B32B-16F712C01D54.png

9EA21208-8826-4A64-8D85-52B28786D482.png

92FF2203-F048-4EFA-8AF1-1BFF57698F9B.png

I think my hips have slid away from target slightly and it seems like I have a slight reverse pivot?

What problems does playing the ball to far back in the stance create?

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1 hour ago, wagolfer7 said:

@Axon7 - just be cautious.  Adjusting your swing can make you better, but can also make you worse if you make the wrong adjustments.  

 

In this thread alone:

Posture Changes 

Hip Adjustments - changes such as "keep flex in your trail leg" usually cause pelvis / hip changes

Elbow Adjustments

Pressure Placement

 

Not saying the advice from anyone is incorrect.  But it's like going to see 8 doctors in one day and having them all prescribe a different medication.  Not only is some of the medication not going to work for you, but some of the medication could conflict with the other medication and you could have an allergic reaction to one of them (E.G. Shanks) 🙂 

 

In my opinion, it's way too much to take in at once and not an efficient way to improve. 

 

Bite the bullet and see an instructor.  Repetition makes permanent, not perfect.  Before I put in a bunch of reps, I would be 100% sure what I'm doing is correct.    

I understand and ideally I would go and see an instructor but I’ve heard some negative things about the local pro so I’m not sure. I’m looking into online lessons but because I’m in Australian I just have to try and work out times and logistics. 

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Playing the ball  back in your stance moves the path more to the right , increases the attack angle , delofts the clubface increases spin and places your head in front of the ball.It can act as a compensation for flipping because you are hitting the ball at a low point farther back in your swing. 

Top players have  lateral movement of their pelvis/ hips at the beginning of their backswing , but this movement is slight , around an inch  , and is over by the time the hands reach their trail leg. After that the movement is only “rotation “ during the rest of the backswing . 
Now that you diagnosed your own problem, what suggestions would you make to improve it ?

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