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Turn, tilt, or both?


FormerBigDaddy
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Title kind of explains it all and refers to the start of the swing in takeaway. Lots of conflicting information on this. I get the whole 90* to the spine thing but adding some tilt seems to help to get the club going up. Yet some say tilt or left side bend early is bad and I can understand that too. If you take a club and get into golf posture with a club and then stand upright you’re first instinct is to turn, not tilt… yet when you put the club down on the ground if you just turn without tilt the club stays low and goes way inside. 
 

So what is it? Tilt, turn, or a combination of both?

Edited by FormerBigDaddy
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combination of both

TaylorMade JDM SLDR TP 430 10*           MCA Diamana X17 60X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 15*                           MCA Diamana X17 70X

Bridgestone J33 AirMuscle 19*                 Velyx Rome Wildeye 988X
MIURA TC-201   4-6                                  MCA MMT-105TX

MIURA MB-101  7-P                                   MCA MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Prototype  52, 57, 60                MCA MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Cameron 009 1.5 34/350 Beached Prototype (A010656)

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You have to tilt a little because of the way your hands are on the grip.

TaylorMade JDM SLDR TP 430 10*           MCA Diamana X17 60X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 15*                           MCA Diamana X17 70X

Bridgestone J33 AirMuscle 19*                 Velyx Rome Wildeye 988X
MIURA TC-201   4-6                                  MCA MMT-105TX

MIURA MB-101  7-P                                   MCA MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Prototype  52, 57, 60                MCA MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Cameron 009 1.5 34/350 Beached Prototype (A010656)

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23 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

Both are necessary.

 

 

This really is a great video. This is something I have been  working on a lot as I got older.  I started doing what he calls "horizontal" shoulder turn, I always called it a flat shoulder turn.  I seemed to forget how to turn, or was just getting stiff in my older age.   I had to get the sense that my left shoulder moved down towards the ball, not "around".  When I first started working on this, I felt like I would hit the ground about 2 feet behind the ball as I came down.  But what is key is what he illustrates here, "the lawnmower pull" with the left side coming down. I  used to get really steep in my swing also, this has corrected that also, as being steep was a result of my arms swinging down so much since my shoulder turn was so bad. 

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WITB
TaylorMade Sim 2 9 degrees, HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX 60 6.0
Ping G410 LST 3W Tensei CK Orange 70 S
Ping G410 5W and 7W Stock Alta S
Srixon Z585 5-PW Modus 3 105 S
Cleveland CBX 2  52(bent strong), 54, CBX full-Face 58, all DG 115 W
Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Special Select 34.5 in

Srixon Z Star XV

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35 minutes ago, Walker678 said:

All at the same time or one after the other?  Or does it matter?

Appropriate rates in a manner which allows the golfer to maintain their inclination to the ground...

 

You are replacing however many degrees of forward flex you have at P1 ideally with the same amount of lateral flexion as you swing to P4...

 

 

FeedYourGame

www.mikedeitersgolf.com

 

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Here is an explanation of shoulder turn vs. arm swing that might be informative:

 

The flat shoulder turn and steep arm swing is a lot easier on my old body then what Padraig demonstrates in the video posted earlier in this thread.  

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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A simple but effective way to do it is to turn the shoulders, hips and knees while folding the right elbow and cocking the hands while the arms work with the body.

 

You'll open up a can of compensational worms if you swing the arms independently from the body by trying to swing the club wide down the static plane line. 

 

847028845_SamSneadSwingCollection.mp4_snapshot_04.04_2017_06.05_10_49_34.jpg.af39c3235bbacc6692828929fd83da28.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Walker678 said:

That's way too much for me to think about when swinging.  Do you have a simpler swing thought or drill that will accomplish all of the above?

 

Are you serious? It isn't that complicated. 

 

About 60-70% of our learning is done visually. Here's a video that might clear things up for you. He stepped on his right foot then he turns from the top down. He didn't swing his arms wide in the backswing which gets the arms out of sync with the turning body creating a timing nightmare. 

 

1306784369_SneadFO.gif.8de46c5b07af384cf5846a99bcf482a4.gif

 

The shaft is parallel to his shoulders because his arms were swinging around him not away from him. Hope that helps. If not good luck with your hunting and pecking.

 

847028845_SamSneadSwingCollection.mp4_snapshot_04.04_2017_06.05_10_49_34.jpg.af39c3235bbacc6692828929fd83da28.jpg

 

 

 

 

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I think this video is also relevant.   Breaking down chest turn and shoulder turn.   Turning your chest/trunk and lifting up your arms is not a shoulder turn.  I think I have at times tried to over rotate my torso but not moved my shoulders as shown in this video, which can really be a power killer.   Also, but moving your right shoulder back as you near the top, you help create tilt as what is said in the first post as "tilt seems to help to get the club going up. "

 

 

 

Edited by Mike_C

WITB
TaylorMade Sim 2 9 degrees, HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX 60 6.0
Ping G410 LST 3W Tensei CK Orange 70 S
Ping G410 5W and 7W Stock Alta S
Srixon Z585 5-PW Modus 3 105 S
Cleveland CBX 2  52(bent strong), 54, CBX full-Face 58, all DG 115 W
Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Special Select 34.5 in

Srixon Z Star XV

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