Would a tour player take 250 down the middle?

[iBanesto]

Nope.

 

Unless they are playing in 1999 Carnoustie-level rough every week.

[2bGood]

@Obee  would be Tour Pro if accurate short drives and hitting hybrids into greens moved you up the leader board. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by 2bGood

[ThinkingPlus]

4 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

250 on the LPGA tour would play all day but no way it would cut it on the PGA tour or any men's tour for that matter.  

It would play well, but there would still be a significant number of players that wouldn't take it for regular events.  They would probably all take it for majors.

[bladehunter]

250 down the middle won’t finish top10 in your state mid am .  Or heck. Even your city or county amateur.  It’s just not competitive. Would leave you 300-330 onto most par 5s.  If you’re not going at them in 2 you're already dead. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by bladehunter

[PJE]

Nope, but 250 down the middle could help 8 handicaps get down to 4. 
At that point, the sky’s the limit on this forum. 
Seriously, college kids must be at least 290 to be competitive.

PGA Tour stats for 2021 showed 44% of players were at 300 + and another 34% were at 280-300. Over 3/4 of the Tour is at least 30 yards longer than 250. 
Only 5% of the Tour players were at 240-260. 
Looking at the list of the 5% ers , there are some noteworthy names, e.g., Chez Reavie, Brian Gay, etc but not exactly world beaters. 

 

 

[Dave230]

I understand the intent of the question, perfect accuracy over the risk of more distance, but 250 is way too low for this. A more interesting question might be 290 down the middle. 250 down the middle maybe if you asked the question 40 years ago or you are talking about a scratch cup at a club championship, not the PGA Tour.

[Christosterone]

13 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Not even WRXers would take 250 down the middle. The average WRXer is like 330 carry...

330 carry…pfft

maybe with a baby cut 3 wood…

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Christosterone

[Ironman_32]

11 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Heck no!  No tour pro would want 200+ yard approach shots into par 4s regularly .  I think you can be competitive averaging around 295 which is how far Morikawa and Spieth hit it but 250 is short even for high school golfers.

Just for context, if a tour pro played Augusta hitting it 250 off the tee, they would have 9 approach shots on par 4s from 190 or longer and wouldn't be able to reach any of the par 5s in two. That's a ton of hybrids for someone who hits it 250. I think you gotta hit it at least 290 to be competitive on tour. The courses are just too dang long.

Good observation, even if only one course it serves the point. Having never been invited to play Augusta (gotta get better friends), would 250 even around some of the doglegs, like 13? And if were going to say roll is a factor, would up hill be a factor? 18 is uphill, a shot would fly less.

 

Basically with this question, you have to ask if there are any players, in theory, who could hit a 250 shot that would find the fairway a high majority of the time. And if that was a good strategy, how come no one is doing it. Just look at Augusta, outside of hole 3, you would have every approach at 190+ yards. At a certain point, the stats regress and these guys don't have an edge. On a 320 yard hole, Rory has a better chance of driving and getting it closer than myself, but we both have the same chance of hitting a golf ball from Florida to California. 

[Ironman_32]

11 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Heck no!  No tour pro would want 200+ yard approach shots into par 4s regularly .  I think you can be competitive averaging around 295 which is how far Morikawa and Spieth hit it but 250 is short even for high school golfers.

Just for context, if a tour pro played Augusta hitting it 250 off the tee, they would have 9 approach shots on par 4s from 190 or longer and wouldn't be able to reach any of the par 5s in two. That's a ton of hybrids for someone who hits it 250. I think you gotta hit it at least 290 to be competitive on tour. The courses are just too dang long.

Good observation, even if only one course it serves the point. Having never been invited to play Augusta (gotta get better friends), would 250 even around some of the doglegs, like 13? And if were going to say roll is a factor, would up hill be a factor? 18 is uphill, a shot would fly less.

 

Basically with this question, you have to ask if there are any players, in theory, who could hit a 250 shot that would find the fairway a high majority of the time. And if that was a good strategy, how come no one is doing it. Just look at Augusta, outside of hole 3, you would have every approach at 190+ yards. At a certain point, the stats regress and these guys don't have an edge. On a 320 yard hole, Rory has a better chance of driving and getting it closer than myself, but we both have the same chance of hitting a golf ball from Florida to California. 

[VNutz]

15 hours ago, Dr.Zevia said:

If a tour player could place their ball anywhere on the fairway, but be limited to 250 yards, would they take it? Or would they take their chances off the tee for more distance?

I think even 25 years ago that would hardly play on tour. Corey Pavin was probably the epitome of this and he was the exception rather than the rule. He had to be absolutely on top of his game to compete.

 

Today even 300 down the middle is losing ground at times.

Edited December 2, 2021 by VNutz

[Titleist99]

30 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

I understand the intent of the question, perfect accuracy over the risk of more distance, but 250 is way too low for this. A more interesting question might be 290 down the middle. 250 down the middle maybe if you asked the question 40 years ago or you are talking about a scratch cup at a club championship, not the PGA Tour.

While I agree, 250 is to low......290 is way to high. IMO.....290-300 yards off the tee in today's PGATOUR is the sweet spot. Drives over that is potentially diminished returns...IMO

[smashdn]

56 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

I understand the intent of the question, perfect accuracy over the risk of more distance, but 250 is way too low for this. A more interesting question might be 290 down the middle. 250 down the middle maybe if you asked the question 40 years ago or you are talking about a scratch cup at a club championship, not the PGA Tour.

 

Not here.  In stroke play if you don't birdie the 3 par fives and the driveable par four you don't have a chance.  There will be some that eagle a five or two as well so I am just talking average 15 strokes on those four holes or you give strokes back to the field.  I can only think of one par four on that course that par would be better than the field average score.  The par threes on the other hand are quite tough save for one really short hole.  In comps they play one par four as an additional par three on the back nine due to the requirement to lay up.  Though there are some guys who can now drive that green from the actual tee box, it is just blind and requires you to drive up to where they play it as a three to ensure the green is clear.

[Ferguson]

310 is the new 250

 

 

 

[Titleist99]

I'll take 2000 Tiger placing the ball in the fairway 250 over any player short of Collin Morikawa.....these two guys understand that control comes from the fairway and there's a proper side of the fairway to be on while entering the green.....a lot of Wrxers seem to get lost in this concept.....IMO

 

Iron game and putter will get you a few majors.....IMO

[smashdn]

Majors maybe.

 

Doak related a conversation he had with BK when they were working on Memorial Park together.  He essentially said, he does not care what side of the fairway he is in from a approach the green standpoint.  It only matters to him where the trouble in the fairway is and to steer away from it.

 

I wish it mattered.  The ODG built them to matter.  The ability (reality?) to hit a sky high approach dead on the number and have little to no roll-out has muted the need for approaching from the "proper side."

 

It matters to us and that is fine by me.

[BombinJim]

16 hours ago, Dr.Zevia said:

If a tour player could place their ball anywhere on the fairway, but be limited to 250 yards, would they take it? Or would they take their chances off the tee for more distance?

If this is limited to the tee shot only and shot #2 from the fairway they could still rip a 3W 280/300 yds then maybe.

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

Corey Pavin didn't have a choice and I'd take his career no questions asked....

 

[Titleist99]

11 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Majors maybe.

 

Doak related a conversation he had with BK when they were working on Memorial Park together.  He essentially said, he does not care what side of the fairway he is in from a approach the green standpoint.  It only matters to him where the trouble in the fairway is and to steer away from it.

 

I wish it mattered.  The ODG built them to matter.  The ability (reality?) to hit a sky high approach dead on the number and have little to no roll-out has muted the need for approaching from the "proper side."

 

It matters to us and that is fine by me.

IMO......PGATOUR, USGA and R&A control the set up of a golf course. If they wished, they could stop target golf any time they choose... they just choose not to......IMO

[Titleist99]

10 minutes ago, 5 O'Clock Charlie said:

Corey Pavin didn't have a choice and I'd take his career no questions asked....

 

what the heck happened in 2004? total jump in distance....Holy cow!

[jj9000]

16 hours ago, Dr.Zevia said:

If a tour player could place their ball anywhere on the fairway, but be limited to 250 yards, would they take it? Or would they take their chances off the tee for more distance?

 

There's something in this that nobody has addressed.

 

The OP never suggested that the PGA player actually hit the tee shot 250.  Rather, he suggests that the player 'places' the ball anywhere in the fairway at the 250 yard mark.  The big bombers might actually take the 250 option.

 

How does the analysis change if Bryson places the ball at 250 (anywhere in the fairway...with the best angles in)...then plays his 2nd shot from 200-225 (probably an open faced flick wedge)?

[oikos1]

No.  And some appear to be over thinking this at this point. 

[Murphy76]

 

If the Pro took the 250 straight, could he get beat by a 4 Hcp player?

 

 

[Dr.Zevia]

OP here, some interesting replies here so far.  What made me think of this was listening to an interview with Rocco Mediate and him saying give me 280 off the tee and I could still compete on the regular tour.  Maybe a better question is what's the distance a tour player would sacrifice to be in the middle of the fairway off the tee?

[Dr.Zevia]

1 minute ago, Murphy76 said:

 

If the Pro took the 250 straight, could he get beat by a 4 Hcp player?

 

 

I doubt it.  I would imagine a 4 handicap player would get blown away on tour greens and rough.

[Murphy76]

7 minutes ago, Dr.Zevia said:

I doubt it.  I would imagine a 4 handicap player would get blown away on tour greens and rough.

 

Swing and a miss.....

 

[Titleist99]

47 minutes ago, jj9000 said:

 

There's something in this that nobody has addressed.

 

The OP never suggested that the PGA player actually hit the tee shot 250.  Rather, he suggests that the player 'places' the ball anywhere in the fairway at the 250 yard mark.  The big bombers might actually take the 250 option.

 

How does the analysis change if Bryson places the ball at 250 (anywhere in the fairway...with the best angles in)...then plays his 2nd shot from 200-225 (probably an open faced flick wedge)?

I did address this......there's a proper angle to enter most greens even if the flag is in the middle.

[jj9000]

5 minutes ago, Murphy76 said:

 

Swing and a miss.....

 

 

I'm with you.  It's been a few years...but...solid thread.

[Dr.Zevia]

Just now, jj9000 said:

 

I'm with you.  It's been a few years...but...solid thread.

I'll take a tour player at 250 vs a 4 handicap any day.  Let's not forget about the mental toughness and shot making that really separates a professional from a low handicap at your local course.

[bscinstnct]

 

 

They can all already place the ball perfectly in the fairway 250 yards out. With a 5w or 3i

 

But they don’t. 
 

So, there’s the answer ; )

[Titleist99]

17 minutes ago, Dr.Zevia said:

OP here, some interesting replies here so far.  What made me think of this was listening to an interview with Rocco Mediate and him saying give me 280 off the tee and I could still compete on the regular tour.  Maybe a better question is what's the distance a tour player would sacrifice to be in the middle of the fairway off the tee?

Rocco is right......driving in the fairway at 280 yards will allow you to compete on any golf course period....IMO The talking heads on TV are just trying to sell distance and drivers......Longest driver on tour has eight wins and one major championship yet people are losing their minds and throwing their game out the window to emulate him.....go figure!