Would a tour player take 250 down the middle?

[Ferguson]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Zevia said:

I'll take a tour player at 250 vs a 4 handicap any day.  Let's not forget about the mental toughness and shot making that really separates a professional from a low handicap at your local course.

 

What about a 4 handicap with exceptionally large forearms and currently maintaining a stable marriage? 

 

 

 

[Dr.Zevia]

Just now, Ferguson said:

 

What about a 4 handicap with exceptionally large forearms and currently maintaining a stable marriage? 

 

 

 

 

$$$$$$

[amace04]

11 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

250 on the LPGA tour would play all day but no way it would cut it on the PGA tour or any men's tour for that matter.  

250 would put them 120/156 on the average driving distance list.

 

I can't imagine any players other than some of the very worst drivers would take that deal.

[elwhippy]

250 wouldn't make a dent in our club champs qualifier never mind a tour event. They were hitting further than that with persimmon and balata. 

[oikos1]

50 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Rocco is right......driving in the fairway at 280 yards will allow you to compete on any golf course period....IMO The talking heads on TV are just trying to sell distance and drivers......Longest driver on tour has eight wins and one major championship yet people are losing their minds and throwing their game out the window to emulate him.....go figure!

I agree that most of the talking heads have some interest in promoting products.  However, 280 vs 250 is a 2-3 club difference and is the difference between barely being competitive on tour and hustling delusional duffers at your local muni.  2021 PGA Tour avg was 296.2 yards.  280 avg. on the PGA Tour in 2021 would rank you 191st in avg. driving distance, making 19 of 32 cuts and not one top ten finish.

 

As for Rocco, his avg. drive on Champions Tour is 269.1 yards with 73.61% driving accuracy.  Champions Tour average is 275 yards.  There is a reason he wants 11 more yards...but it won't do much for him on the regular tour. 😁

[Mcgeeno]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

what the heck happened in 2004? total jump in distance....Holy cow!

 

Titleist Pro V1 happened. 

 

Literally. 

[Mcgeeno]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

I did address this......there's a proper angle to enter most greens even if the flag is in the middle.

 

Here is one of golfs most renowned analytics guys blowing that to smithereens.

 

"Angles schmangles, literary edition. I open my DECADE seminar saying “stop trying to make birdies”. Technically you are trying to make bird w/ur tee shot on a drivable par 4 or your 2nd shot on a reachable par 5. THE KEY is having discipline once greenside to reassess ur position"

 

The further you hit it the less angles matter. Guys can hit wedges higher and spin them more than others who approach with 6 irons from a perfect angle.

 

That's why the best players in the world hit it really far. Aint nobody choosing to hit it 250 nowadays otherwise you would see guys hit 4 irons all day. They could choose to be 250 in the middle all day...And yet they dont.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Mcgeeno

[Ferguson]

Ask Bruce what he thinks about angles and he'll say, "favorite dinosaur is t-rex." 

 

 

 

 

 

[smashdn]

20 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

IMO......PGATOUR, USGA and R&A control the set up of a golf course. If they wished, they could stop target golf any time they choose... they just choose not to......IMO

 

Sure they can.  But if the winner is -7 and not -17 it appears like something is wrong.  Give me that really difficult Memorial set up.  

 

Great golf shots are great because there is some level of difficulty associated with them when they get pulled off.  I expect those guys to have good results when the conditions and lies are ideal.  A good score in tough conditions or set up is usually indicative of a good golfer on his game. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by smashdn

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Rocco is right......driving in the fairway at 280 yards will allow you to compete on any golf course period....IMO The talking heads on TV are just trying to sell distance and drivers......Longest driver on tour has eight wins and one major championship yet people are losing their minds and throwing their game out the window to emulate him.....go figure!

 

How many do the longest 15 have?  Compare that to the next 25 players (16 through 41) and see what shakes out.  (I haven't done this but I bet there is a marked difference.  

[goobers80]

6 hours ago, amace04 said:

250 would put them 120/156 on the average driving distance list.

 

I can't imagine any players other than some of the very worst drivers would take that deal.

Yardages are misleading and inflated. No way in hell they all hit it 250 every tee shot. I saw leaders at a recent event on tv carrying it 230 tops. And a couple were above average hitters.   Some can but most cant. 
 

Have played a few on Symetra and q school and not even close there either. Some can move it but 250 in middle of fairway on a LPGA course ? With any decent iron / wedge play you would be top 5 in world with putts going in. 
 

Would have to be an idiot not to if you could. 

[oikos1]

Just looked up LPGA.  250 yard off the tee average ranks 115th in 2021.   Top of the board is 290 yards.

 

What pro in 2021/2022 on any professional tour wants 250 off the tee ever?

[goobers80]

18 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Just looked up LPGA.  250 yard off the tee average ranks 115th in 2021.   Top of the board is 290 yards.

 

What pro in 2021/2022 on any professional tour wants 250 off the tee ever?

Par 4 s are under 400 yards so what one would not want a wedge or short iron from the fairway.  And those yardages are inflated. It sells. Short hitters compete just fine. 

PGA is totally different 

 

[oikos1]

1 minute ago, goobers80 said:

Par 4 s are under 400 yards so what one would not want a wedge or short iron from the fairway.  And those yardages are inflated. It sells. Short hitters compete just fine. 

PGA is totally different 

 

Hmm, I've heard yardages are inflated on the PGA Tour as well.  Sure, they are on the LPGA Tour, but how many at 250 yards and under are competitive on a weekly basis?

[Righty to Lefty]

20 hours ago, amace04 said:

250 would put them 120/156 on the average driving distance list.

 

I can't imagine any players other than some of the very worst drivers would take that deal.

@ThinkingPlus

@oikos1

 

Umm Na Yeon Choi begs to differ....250 on the nose gets you 9 victories and 11 million in career earnings. I rest my case!  And if you look at the list further you will see another "middle of the pack short hitter" by the name of Lydia Ko that averages 259 yards that has won her fair share and the #1 ranked player on tour Jin Young Ko averages 258 so you can dominate the LPGA tour while not hitting it the furthest but not so much the PGA tour.  Finally you've got Mo Martin that has a major victory with an average of 236 yards.  Shall I continue?!!  250 plays all day in the current LPGA.  It may not 10-20 years from now but it does right now.  

 

 

 

Source: https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance

              https://www.lpga.com/players/na-yeon-choi/82878/overview

Edited December 3, 2021 by Righty to Lefty

[Rapidcat]

On the LPGA tour, just look at Inbee Park: current world #3 (has been #1) who has won 7 majors/21 LPGA events and averaged 241y this season. An elite putter through her career.

 

250y is fine on the LPGA if you are an elite putter.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Rapidcat

[erikro]

I think that would be the winning drive for the 12 year old division of the drive chip and putt so probably not.

[oikos1]

9 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

@ThinkingPlus

@oikos1

 

Umm Na Yeon Choi begs to differ....250 on the nose gets you 9 victories and 11 million in career earnings. I rest my case!  And if you look at the list further you will see another "middle of the pack short hitter" by the name of Lydia Ko that averages 259 yards that has won her fair share and the #1 ranked player on tour Jin Young Ko averages 258 so you can dominate the LPGA tour while not hitting it the furthest but not so much the PGA tour.  Finally you've got Mo Martin that has a major victory with an average of 236 yards.  Shall I continue?!!  250 plays all day in the current LPGA.  It may not 10-20 years from now but it does right now.  

 

 

 

Source: https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance

              https://www.lpga.com/players/na-yeon-choi/82878/overview

That's fine if you want to rest your case, but lets do some fact checking.  Na Yeon Choi came on the Tour in 2008 when the top Driver of the ball averaged 269.3 yards.  She ranked 20th at 257.4 yards.  13 years later, she averages 250.5 and the top of the list averages 290.8.  A 40 yard difference today, a 12 yard difference 13 years ago.

 

And since you picked her for your poster child, I'm certain you know when she did the majority of her winning.

Edited December 3, 2021 by oikos1

[oikos1]

7 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

On the LPGA tour, just look at Inbee Park: current world #3 (has been #1) who has won 7 majors/21 LPGA events and averaged 241y this season. An elite putter through her career.

 

250y is fine on the LPGA if you are an elite putter.

And as noted above with Na Yeon Choi, Park did the majority of her winning pre 2016.  She was never really long to begin with, but by 2016 there was a thirty yard gap between her and the longest hitter.  Five years after that she's 50 yards behind.

 

Are we talking about 250 yards five, ten, fifteen years ago or 250 yards in 2021?

[Rapidcat]

51 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

And as noted above with Na Yeon Choi, Park did the majority of her winning pre 2016.  She was never really long to begin with, but by 2016 there was a thirty yard gap between her and the longest hitter.  Five years after that she's 50 yards behind.

 

Are we talking about 250 yards five, ten, fifteen years ago or 250 yards in 2021?

It's still relevant - Inbee is world #3 in 2021, not scraping to make cuts. Inbee made a decision to REDUCE her distance in a trade-off for accuracy. She has won 4 times on the LPGA Tour since 2016 including this year.

 

When you putt as well as she does, 250 is plenty on the LPGA Tour.  Not so much if you are an average putter.

 

Edit: Contrast with Lexi Thompson who averaged #4 in driving distance at 278 in 2021, has also won 4 times on the LPGA Tour since 2016 but not over the last 2 seasons.

 

I suspect that the OP's focus re 250 was for the PGA Tour. The LPGA Tour is a different animal and driving distance is less important at this time.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Rapidcat

[bladehunter]

20 hours ago, Ferguson said:

Ask Bruce what he thinks about angles and he'll say, "favorite dinosaur is t-rex." 

 

 

 

 

 

He would.
 

 And I guess that makes sense if you’d never seen an allosaurus Rex.  I mean they ate pieces of t-Rex  for breakfast.  With a few berries and some brontosaurus ribs on the side.  

[Rapidcat]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

He would.
 

 And I guess that makes sense if you’d never seen an allosaurus Rex.  I mean they ate pieces of t-Rex  for breakfast.  With a few berries and some brontosaurus ribs on the side.  

[bladehunter]

15 hours ago, goobers80 said:

Yardages are misleading and inflated. No way in hell they all hit it 250 every tee shot. I saw leaders at a recent event on tv carrying it 230 tops. And a couple were above average hitters.   Some can but most cant. 
 

Have played a few on Symetra and q school and not even close there either. Some can move it but 250 in middle of fairway on a LPGA course ? With any decent iron / wedge play you would be top 5 in world with putts going in. 
 

Would have to be an idiot not to if you could. 

Thank you for saying what I have always felt like is out of bounds for a guy to say.  
 

I love to watch the lpga , I marvel at their accuracy.  True story.    But. If you pay attention you’ll see ladies hitting hybrids into par 3s and 4s from 150-160 yards or less at times.  No way that equates to a 250 yard driver every time.    
 

of course the lexis and Korda sisters are the exceptions.  But they carry a bag of clubs that closer resembles the mens game.  
 

that’s what I see.  But I maybe wrong too ? 
 

 

[bladehunter]

Just now, Rapidcat said:

Lol. I wondered if anyone would catch that !  Good show !!!  

[Rapidcat]

8 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Lol. I wondered if anyone would catch that !  Good show !!!  

One of my favourite no brain strain fun movies...watched it again last night so was front of mind!😄

[Jc0]

Fred Funk and Rocco Mediate essentially did this on tour, so I would take the tour player any day

[Mcgeeno]

1 hour ago, Jc0 said:

Fred Funk and Rocco Mediate essentially did this on tour, so I would take the tour player any day

 

They definitely did but the 250 number was more relevant in the 90's and early 2000's when those guys were competitive. 

 

There is nobody competitive on the PGA tour right now that hits it near 250. The question was if anyone would take it right now and that list would be close to zero. If 250 in the middle of the fairway would win a bunch in 2022 Bryson could hit a 6 iron off every tee and do that. 

 

A guy hitting it 250 would be able to make some cuts on certain courses, never get invited to the Majors where the accuracy plays better and likely loses his tour card in a hurry. Best case Brendan Todd worst case David Hearn as far as 2021 and beyond goes. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Mcgeeno

[CometAce17]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:15 PM, MikeW2 said:

No they wouldn’t but I would so if you know how to make this happen hook me up.

+1

[khalespace]

Many of the PAR 4 are close to 500, you can't win with hitting 3 wood into greens. Also, many PAR 5s are around 600. You need to drive 330 to have a chance to reach the green in 2.

Edited December 3, 2021 by khalespace

[aenemated]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:17 PM, dlow206 said:

Not even WRXers would take 250 down the middle. The average WRXer is like 330 carry...

 

You mean the short hitters?