Hole-in-One Ball Retrieving Etiquette

[bobfoster]

The odds of a hole in one are approximately 12,500 to 1. The odds of two people in a foursome getting back to back holes in one are approximately 17 million to 1 (According to the National Hole-In-One Registry).

 

Of course, we do have to take into account Colin L's thesis concerning the zinc variances in different balls. 🤣

 

This certainly has to be a troll thread. Probably never in, like, the entire history of global golf, has a person hit a hole in one, and then walked up to get the ball out of the hole so as not to prevent the rest of his foursome from also getting one. The idea extends well past ludicrous into the downright laughable. Still, troll threads can be a lot of fun to play with.

 

Personally, my worries are the exact opposite of Colin's. What if two people got a hole in one? Wouldn't the third guy wind up with an unfair advantage (if the zinc content was favorable, and the quantum spin characteristics in the electrons were aligned) due to the Happy Gilmore principle? (If two of the kids have already gone home, wouldn't that greatly increase the chances of a third one going home?)

Edited December 6, 2021 by bobfoster

[tw_focus]

1 hour ago, Augster said:

I believe it’s a. Etiquette issue to leave your ball in the cup after holing a putt. I generally won’t putt if someone holes out and doesn’t retrieve it. Though it has ZERO to do with less room in the cup. We joke about “two balls can’t fit in there.” It’s a joke. 
 

If a guy holes out a putt and doesn’t retrieve the ball, etiquette-wise, I’ll look at that guy as part of the great unwashed. I’ll either educate them, or just not play with them anymore. 
 

 

Agree 100%. You don't hole out on the green and leave your ball in there. Apparently there's no rule against it (thanks to the peanut gallery for informing me) but it's standard golf etiquette to remove your ball after holing out, before anyone else putts.

 

Also I think it's reasonable to leave your ball in if you happen to hit an unlikely hole-in-one. But I don't think it's unreasonable for a player to ask another to remove their ball IF they have a reasonable chance of holing out. For example, if I'm hitting a chip from a few feet off the green, I'm going to ask that any balls be removed. 50+ yard shot? I'm okay with it, because it's unlikely that I'll hole out.

[nsxguy]

52 minutes ago, tw_focus said:

Agree 100%. You don't hole out on the green and leave your ball in there. Apparently there's no rule against it (thanks to the peanut gallery for informing me) but it's standard golf etiquette to remove your ball after holing out, before anyone else putts.

 

Also I think it's reasonable to leave your ball in if you happen to hit an unlikely hole-in-one. But I don't think it's unreasonable for a player to ask another to remove their ball IF they have a reasonable chance of holing out. For example, if I'm hitting a chip from a few feet off the green, I'm going to ask that any balls be removed. 50+ yard shot? I'm okay with it, because it's unlikely that I'll hole out.

 

Maybe you should (try to) change the title of the thread ?

[Colin L]

6 hours ago, Augster said:

.........If a guy holes out a putt and doesn’t retrieve the ball, etiquette-wise, I’ll look at that guy as part of the great unwashed. I’ll either educate them, or just not play with them anymore. 
 

 

 

 

I'm desperately looking for the irony clue in there.  

 

 

[Colin L]

4 hours ago, tw_focus said:

Agree 100%. You don't hole out on the green and leave your ball in there. Apparently there's no rule against it (thanks to the peanut gallery for informing me) but it's standard golf etiquette to remove your ball after holing out, before anyone else putts.

 

Also I think it's reasonable to leave your ball in if you happen to hit an unlikely hole-in-one. But I don't think it's unreasonable for a player to ask another to remove their ball IF they have a reasonable chance of holing out. For example, if I'm hitting a chip from a few feet off the green, I'm going to ask that any balls be removed. 50+ yard shot? I'm okay with it, because it's unlikely that I'll hole out.

I wish I had your capacity to be oblivious to ridicule. 

 

Etiquette has to do with values, like safety, like consideration for others, like making the game more enjoyable.  Taking your ball out of the hole before someone else putts is common practice, that's all.   It has no particular value; it's just a habit. 

 

Best wishes

 

A member of the peanut gallery.

(I don't know what it means, but guess it's insulting.)

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Colin L

[antip]

21 minutes ago, Colin L said:

I wish I had your capacity to be oblivious to ridicule. 

 

Etiquette has to do with values, like safety, like consideration for others, like making the game more enjoyable.  Taking your ball out of the hole before someone else putts is common practice, that's all.   It has no particular value; it's just a habit. 

 

Best wishes

 

A member of the peanut gallery.

(I don't know what it means, but guess it's insulting.)

 

 

Apparently, if someone asks a rule question, and you answer it, you are a member of the peanut gallery.

[Colin L]

22 minutes ago, antip said:

Apparently, if someone asks a rule question, and you answer it, you are a member of the peanut gallery.

Yes, I understood the entry qualifications, but the peanut allusion escapes me.

[Halebopp]

4 hours ago, Colin L said:

Yes, I understood the entry qualifications, but the peanut allusion escapes me.

 

I found this: "A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest and ostensibly rowdiest seats in the theater, the occupants of which were often known to heckle the performers. ... Phrases such as "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name."

[Colin L]

2 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

I found this: "A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest and ostensibly rowdiest seats in the theater, the occupants of which were often known to heckle the performers. ... Phrases such as "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name."

Thanks for that.  I was right to assume it was insulting, then.  🙂

 

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

I found this: "A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest and ostensibly rowdiest seats in the theater, the occupants of which were often known to heckle the performers. ... Phrases such as "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name."

 

So that is where Schulz got his title for The Peanuts from !

[bekgolf]

3 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

I found this: "A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest and ostensibly rowdiest seats in the theater, the occupants of which were often known to heckle the performers. ... Phrases such as "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name."

 

Thanks for that.  I had always thought it came from "The Howdy Doody Show". 

[Shilgy]

16 hours ago, bobfoster said:

The odds of a hole in one are approximately 12,500 to 1. The odds of two people in a foursome getting back to back holes in one are approximately 17 million to 1 (According to the National Hole-In-One Registry).

 

Of course, we do have to take into account Colin L's thesis concerning the zinc variances in different balls. 🤣

 

This certainly has to be a troll thread. Probably never in, like, the entire history of global golf, has a person hit a hole in one, and then walked up to get the ball out of the hole so as not to prevent the rest of his foursome from also getting one. The idea extends well past ludicrous into the downright laughable. Still, troll threads can be a lot of fun to play with.

 

Personally, my worries are the exact opposite of Colin's. What if two people got a hole in one? Wouldn't the third guy wind up with an unfair advantage (if the zinc content was favorable, and the quantum spin characteristics in the electrons were aligned) due to the Happy Gilmore principle? (If two of the kids have already gone home, wouldn't that greatly increase the chances of a third one going home?)

Have you read the whole thread?  It jumps from 12,500-1 to 17 million -1 simply BECAUSE of the first ball in the hole causing others to bounce out. Nothing to do with zinc coating.

 

Geez, try to keep up. 😉

[sui generis]

22 hours ago, Colin L said:

But without the OP's question, we wouldn't have had a gem like this.

 

On 12/4/2021 at 6:15 PM, sui generis said:

 

Well, the zinc in ball number 1 could magically repel ball numbers 2, 3 and 4 if their zinc contents are unequal. 🙄

 

Look what I found, apparently Mr Bean isn't crazy (well, about this topic, anyway).

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/11/04/littering.golf.balls/

[TwistedSister]

19 hours ago, bobfoster said:

The odds of a hole in one are approximately 12,500 to 1. The odds of two people in a foursome getting back to back holes in one are approximately 17 million to 1 (According to the National Hole-In-One Registry)

Actually if the odds of the first HIO is 12500 to 1 then the odds of the second is also 12500 to one.  The odds of two HIOs in succession is 156,250,000 to one.  But once the first one is made the odds of the second one is still just 12500 to 1.  The odds of the first one have no bearing on the second once the first one is made. 

[Hawkeye77]

On 12/4/2021 at 8:32 PM, tw_focus said:

 It's a major breach of etiquette (and rules?) to leave your ball in while another player putts. 

Citation to "major" breach of etiquette?

 

Citation to rules violation?

 

As for the original post which I am doubtful was serious, the two times I've led off and had holes in one (and the only times) I wasn't running up to the green before the others hit and they didn't express any concern about my ball being in there - more concerned about whether there was going to be a beverage limit, lol.

[Colin L]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Citation to "major" breach of etiquette?

 

Citation to rules violation?

 

As for the original post which I am doubtful was serious, the two times I've led off and had holes in one (and the only times) I wasn't running up to the green before the others hit and they didn't express any concern about my ball being in there - more concerned about whether there was going to be a beverage limit, lol.

I've always dreamt of having the honour in a match, holing my teeshot and turning to my opponent to say, "This for the half."    Well over 60 years of golf and it's still just a dream.  😞

Edited December 6, 2021 by Colin L

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

Look what I found, apparently Mr Bean isn't crazy (well, about this topic, anyway).

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/11/04/littering.golf.balls/

 

I tried very hard but failed to connect that article with this HIO topic. Unless, of course, if the hole is filled with water and the other players wait a couple of centuries for the HIO guy to pick his ball up...

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, dhacker56 said:

Actually if the odds of the first HIO is 12500 to 1 then the odds of the second is also 12500 to one.  The odds of two HIOs in succession is 156,250,000 to one.  But once the first one is made the odds of the second one is still just 12500 to 1.  The odds of the first one have no bearing on the second once the first one is made. 

 

I guess the source referred to actual occurrence of HIO's instead of sheer probabilities.

 

But if there are two consecutive HIO's, how the probability can be xxxxx vs. ONE  as there are TWO balls holed..? 🧐

 

Beats me...

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, Colin L said:

I've always dreamt of having the honour in a match, holing my teeshot and turning to my opponent to say, "This for the half."    Well over 60 years of golf and it's still just a dream.  😞

Colin, I've actually had that happen in a Club Championship final.  My opponent had the honour and holed his tee shot on the third hole, so I had the opportunity for a half - did not succeed in that (but I did win the match!).

[TwistedSister]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I guess the source referred to actual occurrence of HIO's instead of sheer probabilities.

 

But if there are two consecutive HIO's, how the probability can be xxxxx vs. ONE  as there are TWO balls holed..? 🧐

 

Beats me...

Prior to the first shot if the odds are 12500 to 1 for the first it is also 12500 to 1 for the second.  the odds of both is 12500 x12500. After the first one is made its odds go to 1 in 1.  So the odds of two in a row then go to 12500 to one.  the fact the first one is in has no bearing on the odds of the second one going in.

Edited December 6, 2021 by dhacker56

[Newby]

8 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

the fact the first one is in has no bearing on the odds of the second one going in.

It's not going in that's the issue. It's a matter of the ball saying and not bouncing out off the ball or balls already in.

 

If there are enough balls in to fill the hole to the gunwales, there is a good chance the next will bounce out (IMO).

[TwistedSister]

14 minutes ago, Newby said:

It's not going in that's the issue. It's a matter of the ball saying and not bouncing out off the ball or balls already in.

 

If there are enough balls in to fill the hole to the gunwales, there is a good chance the next will bounce out (IMO).

Was not my point...  Guess its over some peoples heads!

[tw_focus]

Your stats aren't correct because you're looking at hole-in-one odds across all par 3s. The fact is that certain holes are much more likely, others much less likely, same with pin positions. So the pin position at the front, below a upslope backstop, in PW distance is much more likely to hole out. Not so much for the 190 yard tucked pin that most aren't even going for.

 

The point is that the odds of consecutive hole-in-ones is much lower than stated because you failed to take the above into account.

Edited December 6, 2021 by tw_focus

[mokedaddy]

The probability of two consecutive hio is probably 17 million to one, not the odds of it happening.  Semantics maybe but it is the internet. 
 

https://towardsdatascience.com/probability-vs-odds-f47fbc6789f4

Edited December 6, 2021 by mokedaddy

[antip]

58 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Colin, I've actually had that happen in a Club Championship final.  My opponent had the honour and holed his tee shot on the third hole, so I had the opportunity for a half - did not succeed in that (but I did win the match!).

I also have had the joyous experience of seeing an opponent's ball go in for a hole in one. In this case, the ball was sprayed right, rattled among bushes and then rolled down a slope onto the green and in. We both had a good laugh, but his was louder than mine.

[rogolf]

46 minutes ago, antip said:

I also have had the joyous experience of seeing an opponent's ball go in for a hole in one. In this case, the ball was sprayed right, rattled among bushes and then rolled down a slope onto the green and in. We both had a good laugh, but his was louder than mine.

My opponent's shot did none of that, it was just a great shot on a 200 yard par three.  We were being allowed to play through the group in front of us, so there was a bit of an audience and excitement.  My opponent and I still talk about it periodically, it was one of the very few times that I managed to beat him in a competition.

Edited December 6, 2021 by rogolf

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

Prior to the first shot if the odds are 12500 to 1 for the first it is also 12500 to 1 for the second.  the odds of both is 12500 x12500. After the first one is made its odds go to 1 in 1.  So the odds of two in a row then go to 12500 to one.  the fact the first one is in has no bearing on the odds of the second one going in.

 

I was making a joke there... 🤣

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Mr. Bean]

9 hours ago, mokedaddy said:

The probability of two consecutive hio is probably 17 million to one, not the odds of it happening.  Semantics maybe but it is the internet. 
 

https://towardsdatascience.com/probability-vs-odds-f47fbc6789f4

 

Taken into account that not all consecutive HIO's are ever recorded by that particular institute the number they are offering is not a correct one either. But you are correct with the concept, as I tried to explain to dhacker56 earlier.

[mokedaddy]

7 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Taken into account that not all consecutive HIO's are ever recorded by that particular institute the number they are offering is not a correct one either. But you are correct with the concept, as I tried to explain to dhacker56 earlier.

Yeah I have no idea what the actual number would be.

[TwistedSister]

Whatever the number is the odds of two back to back hole in ones before the first one is that number times itself.  if the first one goes in then the odds on the second one is the odds of the first one.