8i X-flex in wedges to lower wedge flight and add spin...

[Gerr]

I recently watched this YouTube video...

 

 

I like the idea of what he is saying, but trying to adapt it to my wedges.  Most of my wedges are DG 115 S200 while my iron shafts are Elevate Tour VSS Stiff.  It was suggested I just get an 8i X-flex in my same iron shaft and put it into my wedges.  Only thing is the iron shaft I use is 117g in S, 122g in X.  Would that cause an issue with odd weighting in my wedges?  I am fine with doing it, just want to make sure other options might not be better.  Another option would be to use the newer Elevate ETS 115 8i in X, which not only has a stiffer tip section, but also weights the same 117g in X as my shafts do in stiff.  I could also do an 8i in the Dynamic Gold 120 in X which is a low launching shaft and might be even better?  Not sure, thoughts?

[968cab]

LOVE the @Howard_Jones shout out!  Well deserved!!

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Just discussed this today:

 

Read this topic

 

Not sure about the weight difference question, but the general concept is fascinating. I’m looking for DG X7 8i shafts to try this with my wedges. 

[968cab]

I fully buy in to this concept…the video proves it out, Howard, and others, have explained it at length and with logic.

 

Just finished building two sets with MMT 95S taper tip shafts,  and this is where I hit the roadblock.   Can’t get the tapers for individual irons, only full sets (hope I never need to replace one!!).

 

I can find MMT 105TX “Scoring Wedge”, and MMT 105TX “P” in taper.  The only parallel I can find stop at 90S, even tho they come individually. 
 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

PS. All three wedges are currently shafted with the Kinetixx TS-W shaft, but they are 125g, so my carefully built static weight and swing weight progression goes out the window.  These are “low/mid” supposedly.
 

 

[Billfitz]

So, assuming you want to be able to hit a high wedge as well do you carry two, with different shafts? IMO you're better off learning how to hit a knock down wedge.

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, Gerr said:

I recently watched this YouTube video...

 

 

I like the idea of what he is saying, but trying to adapt it to my wedges.  Most of my wedges are DG 115 S200 while my iron shafts are Elevate Tour VSS Stiff.  It was suggested I just get an 8i X-flex in my same iron shaft and put it into my wedges.  Only thing is the iron shaft I use is 117g in S, 122g in X.  Would that cause an issue with odd weighting in my wedges?  I am fine with doing it, just want to make sure other options might not be better.  Another option would be to use the newer Elevate ETS 115 8i in X, which not only has a stiffer tip section, but also weights the same 117g in X as my shafts do in stiff.  I could also do an 8i in the Dynamic Gold 120 in X which is a low launching shaft and might be even better?  Not sure, thoughts?

Those 5 grams UP is PERFECT, and i will explain that.

If we use the same shaft "all the way", we go DESCENDING weight, into wedges, since we cut the same shaft shorter and shorter, so for a shaft like Dynamic Gold where #9 is the shortest, we have a weight drop in NET cut weight of about 5 grams from #9 to LOB wedge when we use the classic 2/8" shorter pr wedge after #9.

Wedges has a higher BBGM than irons = even more butt cut down to play length, so in "rounded numbers" we loose 3 grams from PW to GW, another gram to SW and then last gram to lob. Your GW will then have 2 grams NET cut wgt above irons, SW 1 grams above, and LOB the same net cut wgt as the #9.

So, if you wants to prevent that weight drop we normally get here, and keep NET shaft weight as close to your irons as possible, 5 grams more uncut wgt is exactly whats needed for wedge, and to refine it even more, those who build their own clubs, should WEIGHT SORT the shafts, and use the lightest for GW, the medium wgt for SW and the most heavy for LOB.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Jtgavigan]

I watched this video, and normally like AJ's stuff, but no way those spin numbers were right. I turned it off after seeing 5-6k rpms on full wedge shots. 

[StillCantPutt]

11 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

I watched this video, and normally like AJ's stuff, but no way those spin numbers were right. I turned it off after seeing 5-6k rpms on full wedge shots. 

Exactly. Makes zero sense. Glad I’m not alone here. 

[Howard_Jones]

24 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

I watched this video, and normally like AJ's stuff, but no way those spin numbers were right. I turned it off after seeing 5-6k rpms on full wedge shots. 

Have you tried different wedge shafts and measured the numbers using a launchmonitor like Trackman?

[Jtgavigan]

22 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Have you tried different wedge shafts and measured the numbers using a launchmonitor like Trackman?

 

I have seen my wedge numbers on Trackman, Quad, and GC2. Full wedge shots I am in the 10k range for my 58 degree wedge. That wedge was bent to 57 for the video and Mr. Shortgame has a driver swingspeed in the 105-110 range, just a few percentage points behind me (I am 108-115, depending on the device), and I happen to have played those wedges the last year or so. So, I would expect his numbers to be fairly similar to mine. 

His contact sounded really, really good. I believed the disparity in the numbers between the shafts (~1500rpm), but not the raw numbers themselves. There is no way he is getting that low spin using premium balls with a 57 degree wedge. Something just seemed wrong. 

[Jtgavigan]

I actually don't dispute that what AJ showed is correct. I absolutely believe it. It just lost some credibility when I saw the low spin numbers. 

[getitdaily]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Those 5 grams UP is PERFECT, and i will explain that.

If we use the same shaft "all the way", we go DESCENDING weight, into wedges, since we cut the same shaft shorter and shorter, so for a shaft like Dynamic Gold where #9 is the shortest, we have a weight drop in NET cut weight of about 5 grams from #9 to LOB wedge when we use the classic 2/8" shorter pr wedge after #9.

Wedges has a higher BBGM than irons = even more butt cut down to play length, so in "rounded numbers" we loose 3 grams from PW to GW, another gram to SW and then last gram to lob. Your GW will then have 2 grams NET cut wgt above irons, SW 1 grams above, and LOB the same net cut wgt as the #9.

So, if you wants to prevent that weight drop we normally get here, and keep NET shaft weight as close to your irons as possible, 5 grams more uncut wgt is exactly whats needed for wedge, and to refine it even more, those who build their own clubs, should WEIGHT SORT the shafts, and use the lightest for GW, the medium wgt for SW and the most heavy for LOB.

 

Howard- is there a rule here that going the 8i in wedge route will make dispersion better? Or is it "for some it will, for others it won't"?

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, Jtgavigan said:

I watched this video, and normally like AJ's stuff, but no way those spin numbers were right. I turned it off after seeing 5-6k rpms on full wedge shots. 

I will just lay out the situation for each, not sure this will change your view but.

For Matt, all data was recorded on Trackman using Pro V1s. I only junked one measured shot from the bunch which was an obvious "thin to win" 20 something degree launch and over 10,000 spin. Was a clear outlier. It was cold out, probably around 48°, and we were in the shade for most of the testing time.

 

The other data I showed for the high speed player was pulled from my GC2. This was actually done with just range balls. Temp was probably around 70 degrees. 

 

I personally don't feel like the numbers were off for Matt, again based on temp, swing speed, hitting off grass, etc.

[getitdaily]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Those 5 grams UP is PERFECT, and i will explain that.

If we use the same shaft "all the way", we go DESCENDING weight, into wedges, since we cut the same shaft shorter and shorter, so for a shaft like Dynamic Gold where #9 is the shortest, we have a weight drop in NET cut weight of about 5 grams from #9 to LOB wedge when we use the classic 2/8" shorter pr wedge after #9.

Wedges has a higher BBGM than irons = even more butt cut down to play length, so in "rounded numbers" we loose 3 grams from PW to GW, another gram to SW and then last gram to lob. Your GW will then have 2 grams NET cut wgt above irons, SW 1 grams above, and LOB the same net cut wgt as the #9.

So, if you wants to prevent that weight drop we normally get here, and keep NET shaft weight as close to your irons as possible, 5 grams more uncut wgt is exactly whats needed for wedge, and to refine it even more, those who build their own clubs, should WEIGHT SORT the shafts, and use the lightest for GW, the medium wgt for SW and the most heavy for LOB.

 

So if I wanted to try this and I'm in kbs $taper 120s in wedge then I would go 125s+ 8i in my 50 degree wedge?

[JoeFrigo]

13 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

So if I wanted to try this and I'm in kbs $taper 120s in wedge then I would go 125s+ 8i in my 50 degree wedge?

yes exactly .

 

Personally I have the same shaft in my gap wedge as my irons bc its for full shots, but my sand and lob wedge have the 8i shaft

Edited December 6, 2021 by JoeFrigo

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, JoeFrigo said:

yes exactly .

 

Personally I have the same shaft in my gap wedge as my irons bc its for full shots, but my sand and lob wedge have the 8i shaft

Did you move to the 8i shaft after playing the wedge shaft?

 

If so, is dispersion better? 

[Pnwpingi210]

9 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Those 5 grams UP is PERFECT, and i will explain that.

If we use the same shaft "all the way", we go DESCENDING weight, into wedges, since we cut the same shaft shorter and shorter, so for a shaft like Dynamic Gold where #9 is the shortest, we have a weight drop in NET cut weight of about 5 grams from #9 to LOB wedge when we use the classic 2/8" shorter pr wedge after #9.

Wedges has a higher BBGM than irons = even more butt cut down to play length, so in "rounded numbers" we loose 3 grams from PW to GW, another gram to SW and then last gram to lob. Your GW will then have 2 grams NET cut wgt above irons, SW 1 grams above, and LOB the same net cut wgt as the #9.

So, if you wants to prevent that weight drop we normally get here, and keep NET shaft weight as close to your irons as possible, 5 grams more uncut wgt is exactly whats needed for wedge, and to refine it even more, those who build their own clubs, should WEIGHT SORT the shafts, and use the lightest for GW, the medium wgt for SW and the most heavy for LOB.

 

Can you still accomplish this if there is no step up in flex?  I currently use modus 130 x and would like to give this a try

[Howard_Jones]

37 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

So if I wanted to try this and I'm in kbs $taper 120s in wedge then I would go 125s+ 8i in my 50 degree wedge?

No, that #8 iron is softer than your PW, you will have to go 130 X to get a full flex up, then  #8

Edited December 6, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

9 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Can you still accomplish this if there is no step up in flex?  I currently use modus 130 x and would like to give this a try

Unless there is a TX flex option, NO
Then we can only get a minor adjustment by tip trimming a PW shaft like ive explained above 

[Howard_Jones]

27 minutes ago, JoeFrigo said:

yes exactly .

 

Personally I have the same shaft in my gap wedge as my irons bc its for full shots, but my sand and lob wedge have the 8i shaft

You can do what you want, but DONT mislead others on this subject, the one who ask WANT be able to make a "8 iron spinner" that way.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Howard- is there a rule here that going the 8i in wedge route will make dispersion better? Or is it "for some it will, for others it won't"?

Weight and feel is factors we dont control here, whats good for one can be bad for another, but as long as we use the same shaft model like i suggest, the odds are good for better dispersion, since that shaft want feel "strange"...but it will feel different anyway since its stronger than most is used to play for wedge.

[getitdaily]

34 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

No, that #8 iron is softer than your PW, you will have to go 130 X to get a full flex up, then  #8

Straight in, not tipped, right? Butt cut to length?

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Straight in, not tipped, right? Butt cut to length?

YES - a FULL flex stronger (10 CPM), then SS1 - relative to your PW - NO tip trim

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES - a FULL flex stronger (10 CPM), then SS1 - relative to your PW - NO tip trim

As always, THANK YOU! Shaft ordered. Looking forward to seeing how this performs. If it's good in my 50 then I'll move on to the 54...then the 60.

[Howard_Jones]

8 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

As always, THANK YOU! Shaft ordered. Looking forward to seeing how this performs. If it's good in my 50 then I'll move on to the 54...then the 60.

Tell us how that turned out for you, there is many readers who have done this over those years ive been suggesting this (almost 12 years on WRX now), and most of them will never play another set up for wedge than this concept, and i use it in my own wedges.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[getitdaily]

18 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Tell us how that turned out for you, there is many readers who have done this over those years ive been suggesting this (almost 12 years on WRX now), and most of them will never play another set up for wedge than this concept, and i use it in my own wedges.

Will do. Won't be on the same day, but I'll get launch monitor info and post. S400 in the 50 now. $taper 130x 8i going in it soon. 

[nitram]

22 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Tell us how that turned out for you, there is many readers who have done this over those years ive been suggesting this (almost 12 years on WRX now), and most of them will never play another set up for wedge than this concept, and i use it in my own wedges.

Howard told me how to do this in 2012 and I've never looked back. The weight sorting is the "key", for me and with the MMT's it proved a little more difficult than with the X100/S400's I'd used previously.

[Gerr]

OK, just ordered Elevate Tour VSS X-Stiff 8i shafts for my wedges.

[getitdaily]

2 hours ago, Gerr said:

OK, just ordered Elevate Tour VSS X-Stiff 8i shafts for my wedges.

All in! I like it. I'm going slower...1 at a time....lol

[Phabs]

I’ve had 7.0 rifles in wedges since reading some of Howard’s posts.   Only wedge I didn’t get along with it in was my lob, I want all the green side spin I can get.  Gap and Sand are money…