Huggan column: Time to make pros use ‘real’ woods

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, Swingingk said:

Love it!  Damn Stu I'd lay down real money to watch that go down.  That would be some pure awesome right there!

The sad thing is now I do not have that kind of game or swagger anymore. But back then I would have taken them to the woodshed on the route of education

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, OnTheBag said:

When I went on the bag full time, persimmon and hickory were still the flavor of choice.  The names on the hats and bags are relegated to the bargain bin and ebay now, but the quality of golf in my opinion was better.  Those guys (and some of us) could really manage ball flight because the equipment wouldn't do it for us.  

 

Remember when -1 or +1 used to win the US Open or when Seve won the Masters in '86 at -9 after shooting -7 in the final round?  The creativity and skill are different in today's game.  Oh it's still there but is just different.  

 

But to someone's point, it is the power that has changed today's game.  My last 3 gigs were in the LPGA.  Their game reminds me of the old PGA game.  It is more about position and finesse than grip it and rip it.  Take someone like Lydia Ko for example.  Her entire course management strategy is built around the approach and short game.  Very similar to Ray Floyd or Tom Watson.  

 

I also agree that the PGA doesn't punish the miss like they used to.  The players have no disincentive against swinging for the fences.  When your scrambling starts with a 56 or 60 deg wedge, there's room to recover.  Back in the 80's and early 90's, that same scramble would have started with an 8i or 9i.  

 

Anyway....I'm starting to ramble.  My wife says it's all I'm good at anymore.

I agree with you on the LPGA--- It amazes me on how accurate they are with those hybrids and high loft fairway woods.

[MrParr1Noid]

Hey!   I wonder what ole what's his name "Smith" is doing these days?    After all, he authored the beginning of "Hickory, Persimmon and Classic Clubs".    I wonder where he's been?   Come out, come out, wherever you are.  🙂

[LeftyMac]

I think that the balance between power and finesse was better pre ProV1 and the move away from wooden drivers.  Power now owns everything and even the "short hitters" on Tour are bombers compared to 30 years ago.  To put things in perspective, I looked at some numbers a while back and Seve led the Euro Tour driving distance in 1982 and that distance would have had him 7th in driving distance on the LPGA this year.

 

As for the problem only being a pro issue, nah, the best young players at any club out there all bomb it miles.

[BIG STU]

10 hours ago, LeftyMac said:

I think that the balance between power and finesse was better pre ProV1 and the move away from wooden drivers.  Power now owns everything and even the "short hitters" on Tour are bombers compared to 30 years ago.  To put things in perspective, I looked at some numbers a while back and Seve led the Euro Tour driving distance in 1982 and that distance would have had him 7th in driving distance on the LPGA this year.

 

As for the problem only being a pro issue, nah, the best young players at any club out there all bomb it miles.

Yep you have some young bombers out there at all levels now--- Sometimes they show up on our Saturday Shootout some and can bomb it--- But our course is tight and most of the time it is a position type course and you have to know the ebs and flows so to speak. I do not think any of them have outright won-- I know some of them will show up maybe a couple weeks thinking they can steam roll us old farts and they find out different and do not show up anymore. Now I will admit on some courses down here that are bomb and gouge type courses they could more than likely steam roll us. I will admit at my age and current physical state I stick to courses I can play effectivily on.

[WilliePPQ]

The game that me and everyone else I know play is as different from the USGA and RA ordained pro game as night and day. We mostly want to enjoy the game and get around quickly. So "gimme putts" and not worrying about whether someone happened to ground their wedge in the bunker is normal. Ditto as to playing shorter tees as appropriate. Counting EVERY shot is about the only thing we consider sacred. So I will never understand why a guy like me (Joe Sixpack) should be limited by the same rules as a Touring Professional. If a hotter ball or hotter clubface makes the game easier or more enjoyable for the vast majority, why not? Golf is the only sport I can think of where the implements used are mandated as the same for all participants. Let Titleist or Callaway or Srixon develop a "pro only" ball that only a super skilled player can control. Maybe balata? Let recreational players have advantages, and crank it back for the pro game. Seems too easy so there must be a big financial reason why this isn't done? 

[SteveNZ]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:09 PM, LeftyMac said:

I think that the balance between power and finesse was better pre ProV1 and the move away from wooden drivers.  Power now owns everything and even the "short hitters" on Tour are bombers compared to 30 years ago.  To put things in perspective, I looked at some numbers a while back and Seve led the Euro Tour driving distance in 1982 and that distance would have had him 7th in driving distance on the LPGA this year.

 

As for the problem only being a pro issue, nah, the best young players at any club out there all bomb it miles.

Anne van Dam is as long as Norman was in his prime.

[Swingingk]

2 hours ago, WilliePPQ said:

The game that me and everyone else I know play is as different from the USGA and RA ordained pro game as night and day. We mostly want to enjoy the game and get around quickly. So "gimme putts" and not worrying about whether someone happened to ground their wedge in the bunker is normal. Ditto as to playing shorter tees as appropriate. Counting EVERY shot is about the only thing we consider sacred. So I will never understand why a guy like me (Joe Sixpack) should be limited by the same rules as a Touring Professional. If a hotter ball or hotter clubface makes the game easier or more enjoyable for the vast majority, why not? Golf is the only sport I can think of where the implements used are mandated as the same for all participants. Let Titleist or Callaway or Srixon develop a "pro only" ball that only a super skilled player can control. Maybe balata? Let recreational players have advantages, and crank it back for the pro game. Seems too easy so there must be a big financial reason why this isn't done? 

I think the main reason would have to be that almost everyone watching pro golf really wants to see them pound it out there as long as possible.  We live vicariously through the game played by our favorite tour players and don't we all want to be long like they are?  Longer drives is probably the most wanted and strived-for element of almost everyone's game, both amateur and pro.  Everyone likes it and that's good for business. 

If the pros had to play certain special game-limiting equipment I would imagine that the rest of us would want to as well.  That's what is happening right now anyway.

 

About the only way I could see this issue being corrected (in my opinion of course) would be to develop official physical parameters for the ball that would limit it's performance at tour swing speeds yet leave it alone for us mere mortals.  Perhaps a ball that doesn't reward 120+mph swing speeds or becomes erratic at those levels.  That way the new equipment continues to grow the game by making it more enjoyable for the masses, yet limits driving distance for the pros and reducing the need to lengthen courses.  Just an idea...

 

[Hickory4ever]

As has been stated by others in this thread, the current Mens Pro Game is getting more boring. The LPGA is a lot more entertaining.

 

I believe at some point, something will have to be done to rein in distance because lengthening courses is expensive and will eventually force change.

 

I do believe the ball is definitely one area that needs to be addressed. It can be done. Also, some equipment changes will likely be necessary especially for the elite game. Most people playing the game play by their own rules as it is, so in practice, there is bifurcation.

 

I love playing my hickory and classic era clubs, it is refreshing. As long as you play appropriate tees, a decent player can still score very well. And a real wood feels and sounds so nice. 

 

 

 

[Jiggered]

I don't understand the continuous desire to make the game easier.

Golf is a hard game and the difficulty is big part of its enjoyment for me.

Making it easier with equipment advances has gnawed away at a lot of the skill elements of the game, while some seem to have disappeared altogether.

 

A question I've put on golf forums to those golfers who advocate making it easy for weekend players is;

How far would you go in this push to make golf easier?

Would you play a driver that all but guaranteed you drove 350 (or 450, or 500) yards and hit the fairway every time?

Would you use a putter that holed everything from 30 feet and under?

Would you play irons that never sliced or hooked the ball?

etc, etc.

 

Strangely, nobody will commit to any limits or make any suggestions.

 

Also if we wanted to make the game easier the simplest way would be to shorten the course, remove all the hazards and put the hole in the bottom of a bowl shaped green so all putts rolled down to it.  But that would go against the manufacturing machine's drip feed of "improvements" which keep the average golfer buying unnecessary new gear every year.

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, Jiggered said:

I don't understand the continuous desire to make the game easier.

Golf is a hard game and the difficulty is big part of its enjoyment for me.

Making it easier with equipment advances has gnawed away at a lot of the skill elements of the game, while some seem to have disappeared altogether.

 

A question I've put on golf forums to those golfers who advocate making it easy for weekend players is;

How far would you go in this push to make golf easier?

Would you play a driver that all but guaranteed you drove 350 (or 450, or 500) yards and hit the fairway every time?

Would you use a putter that holed everything from 30 feet and under?

Would you play irons that never sliced or hooked the ball?

etc, etc.

 

Strangely, nobody will commit to any limits or make any suggestions.

 

Also if we wanted to make the game easier the simplest way would be to shorten the course, remove all the hazards and put the hole in the bottom of a bowl shaped green so all putts rolled down to it.  But that would go against the manufacturing machine's drip feed of "improvements" which keep the average golfer buying unnecessary new gear every year.

Never mind 30', the day they make me a putter that I cannot miss from 3' will be the technological advance of the century and make the moon landings look like a walk in the park! 😁

Talking of which, I agree with all you say and am minded of the famous speech: "we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organise the best of our energies and skills, because the challenge is one we are willing to accept"

I think that applies to golf?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Foozle
Correction

[LeftyMac]

It's too late to mess with drivers unless you want to go MLB and say the pros have to use wood.  A few on here would see an immediate increase in net worth if that happened.  Smaller heads won't make any difference, look how far they hit 3 woods so the answer is the ball.  Make it spin more.  A lot more.  The ball is a $4 consumable, it's effectively a cheap change for everyone and all they need do is tinker with the ODS.  Make the swing speed say 125 and a minimum spin rate.  Let's see how Bryson would handle a ball that spun twice as much.

 

I restored set of Mac LH2W's for a young and extremely promising pro a few months back.  He finally took them for a hit a week or so ago.  Necked the first few but then hit them really well.  Got them out there about 260m which is about 30m less then his modern driver.  Obviously he lost all that "better athlete" mojo when he put the Mac in his hands because we keep getting told that the extra length is not from the equipment, they are all just better athletes.  😉