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Is "crossing the line" at the top of the backswing bad? Question for instructors


tgreenwood11
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if you are swinging for distance, look at the long drive guys and its not hard to see that crossing the line can give you more yards.

 

More Distance for Golf (Part 1): Long-Drive Techniques – GolfWRX

 

 

If you were trying to build a tour swing from the ground up, I'd probably be in favor of the shorter backswing and more laid off. But if you have a really good player that crosses the line, but has an excellent transition then there is no need to change anything. Certainly wouldnt want to reinvent Jacks swing. Or Freddy, here at P5ish he  is not in all that different a position then a really flat and laid off player like Fowler. 

 

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There are two ways to be across the line:
 

Long and across the line which is nothing more than the natural position of a swing beyond parallel — very common among long hitters and the greats. 
 

Short of parallel and across the line. In general this is far less functional for the average golfer. For many there isn’t enough time to get the club into a functional delivery position. 

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I cross the line with my longer clubs and took a series of lessons with a local golf instructor to try and fix it. He put me on track man and all my numbers were spot on and asked me why I wanted to shorten my swing. I told him because my golf buddies always mention it. He asked if they were better than me and I said all are low double digits to some that are higher. He said don’t take advice from players that aren’t better than you 😂😂 I laughed a little at that. He said me shortening my swing actually messed up my natural timing and transition for my down swing. Main thing that he saw was my down swing fell back on plane and actually was spot on compared to my favorite player Jason Day. I said enough said. He ended up canceling the rest of the lessons since he figured I can use it towards something else. One of the most honest piece of advice I’ve gotten. 

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16 hours ago, tgreenwood11 said:

Seems like a lot of long hitters do it.  I played around with it and I picked up about 15 yards.  To verify I was doing it I videoed my swing.  It was a slight crossing of the line sort of like Freddy and Jack.  Just curious.


simply weigh the pros and cons…

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If we don't look at the distance chasing aspect... and since shallowing the club in transition is a good thing (having the COM of the club behind your handpath) to square the clubface... wouldn't being across the line a facilitator to do so?... momentum of the club getting to the top / rerouting; looping it in with trail external shoulder rotation (without dropping it), lead wrist flexing, trail side bending - definitely need to 'delay' your pivot though (think Rose drill) since you have 'more time' to sync up or else you run into sequence issues (68 ballerina / Tiger ole)... while with the turn-turn Stricker move, if the player has any sort of beeline handpath to the ball will get him/her OTT...

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Don't confuse crossing the line with going past parallel.

 

That being said, there are lots of examples of good players doing it.  The real question is do you have the talent to make the right compensation to make it work?  Most don't and their compensation leads to a bunch of bad results.

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As others have said, it’s not technically across the line if the swing length goes along with it.  Daly is nit across the line.

 

Wolfe is across the line and realigns correctly.  If you realign the wrong way, like dropping your trail shoulder, it’s not good.  
 

A longer swing can also be a bad thing if you don’t have the speed to realign things.  
 

Longer backswing doesn’t equal more speed.  Everyone has a parabola and if your ceiling is 120+, it’s not an issue.  If you’re 90, going longer will likely lose you distance.

 

As you can see it’s nit good or bad, it’s about how it works for you.
 

 

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21 hours ago, tgreenwood11 said:

Seems like a lot of long hitters do it.  I played around with it and I picked up about 15 yards.  To verify I was doing it I videoed my swing.  It was a slight crossing of the line sort of like Freddy and Jack.  Just curious.

 

Its not bad at all!  Not if it wont hurt you and as is repeatable. 

 

The important part of the swing, as far as getting into those nice usable spots, isnt at the top of the backswing its way lower on the downswing.... but you gotta be able to get to those usable repeatable spots

I try and like my own posts but can't figure out how...

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6 hours ago, Socrates said:

Don't confuse crossing the line with going past parallel.

 

That being said, there are lots of examples of good players doing it.  The real question is do you have the talent to make the right compensation to make it work?  Most don't and their compensation leads to a bunch of bad results.

 

 

being across the line is the same no matter if it's from a long swing or you put it there in a shorter swing. Being across the line causes the club to approach more from the inside on the downswing. The opposite is true if you are laid off, the club will tend to topple over more from the outside all things being equal. 

 

The downswing is really all that matters, guys that rotate a ton can be across the line just fine because the rotation brings the club more neutral, it's actually a very good pattern. Tiger did this in the 90's, short across the line and a ton of rotation.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

 

being across the line is the same no matter if it's from a long swing or you put it there in a shorter swing. Being across the line causes the club to approach more from the inside on the downswing. The opposite is true if you are laid off, the club will tend to topple over more from the outside all things being equal. 

 

The downswing is really all that matters, guys that rotate a ton can be across the line just fine because the rotation brings the club more neutral, it's actually a very good pattern. Tiger did this in the 90's, short across the line and a ton of rotation.

 

 

 

 

Hence, my first line.  They are not the same.

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1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

It’s not anywhere close to the same thing


And maybe my post didn’t come across clear. I was saying the in to out influence of being across the line is the same with a short swing and long swing. The club doesn’t know it got there from a long swing or being put across the line in a shorter swing. The longer swing is easier to manage because you have more time to neutralize path. 
 

Plenty of good players who were across the line without reaching parallel, generally they have great rotation (Tiger 97), very powerful combo for speed. If you do that from a laid off position, doesn’t work as well. 

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And you can be past parallel without being across the line.  Just saying.

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1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:


And maybe my post didn’t come across clear. I was saying the in to out influence of being across the line is the same with a short swing and long swing. The club doesn’t know it got there from a long swing or being put across the line in a shorter swing. The longer swing is easier to manage because you have more time to neutralize path. 
 

Plenty of good players who were across the line without reaching parallel, generally they have great rotation (Tiger 97), very powerful combo for speed. If you do that from a laid off position, doesn’t work as well. 


That’s a different conversation and I would say that the club always knows how it got to where it is at the still frame of p4.  How it got there is going to influence what it does beyond that point in time. Not nearly all swings that are laid off will steepen and not all swings that are short and across the line will shallow. 
 

You’re using a correlation among tour players that does not apply to amateur golf.

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1 hour ago, MPStrat said:


That’s a different conversation and I would say that the club always knows how it got to where it is at the still frame of p4.  How it got there is going to influence what it does beyond that point in time. Not nearly all swings that are laid off will steepen and not all swings that are short and across the line will shallow. 
 

You’re using a correlation among tour players that does not apply to amateur golf.


never said all swings at all. In fact I said it is a tendency that can be overcome. Tour pros are the best at it like I mentioned with Tiger in 97. Rahm is another example on opposite end of spectrum. Your arguing with yourself at this point because you keep saying the same things I am but don’t realize it.

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8 hours ago, MPStrat said:

How it got there is going to influence what it does beyond that point in time. Not nearly all swings that are laid off will steepen and not all swings that are short and across the line will shallow.

Interesting tidbit and so very true... and I know it has to be looked on a case by case basis, but between the two (laid off or short across the line) in order to come into the hitting zone shallow which one do you think is 'easier' to implement generally for amateurs?

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7 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:


never said all swings at all. In fact I said it is a tendency that can be overcome. Tour pros are the best at it like I mentioned with Tiger in 97. Rahm is another example on opposite end of spectrum. Your arguing with yourself at this point because you keep saying the same things I am but don’t realize it.


It sounds like you are getting emotional about this. We aren’t saying the same thing at all. You came in here saying: being across the line is the same regardless of swing length, Then you tried to defend your statement saying that “the club doesn’t know how it got there” Both are wildly inaccurate statements. That’s all. This seems like a troll account and I’ve wasted enough time already. 

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Just now, MPStrat said:


It sounds like you are getting emotional about this. We aren’t saying the same thing at all. You came in here saying: being across the line is the same regardless of swing length, Then you tried to defend your statement saying that “the club doesn’t know how it got there” Both are wildly inaccurate statements. That’s all. This seems like a troll account and I’ve wasted enough time already. 


No your not reading what I said and I’m not emotional about anything. I said in every post the influence of being across the line ( in to out) is the same for a short swing vs longer swing. The longer swing you have more time to neutralize it. I’ve said that in every post but you don’t seem to understand. 

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