Got expelled from my CC

[BCC1898]

Had to have punched the President’s wife or something. Guaranteed the story is wild!

[Cliffy2020]

Scrolled through entire  thread waiting for pics or video evidence...

 

until I see either, it didn’t really happen...

 

Fake news.

 

 

 

[flip flappy]

I hate when someone starts a thread like this and then disappears. Come on FBD and fill us in on what the rest of the story is and what you have decided to do.

[jwb10]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:50 PM, FormerBigDaddy said:

So earlier this year my family and I joined a country club and it was a perfect fit. Great golf, dining, events, pools and things for kids to do etc.  About a month ago my wife went to a ladies social event, drank too much, and acted like an idiot. The club decided to end our membership. I’m devastated… my first experience as a member at a club and I just loved it. Thought it would be our club for many years and my kids would grow up going there. They gave us a chance to appeal in person by I’m not optimistic. 
 

I remember when doing the paperwork to join that there was a question about ever being expelled from a club before… I’m hoping we can join another club but I’m concerned the new club will somehow know we have been kicked out of a club before and deny us. Worried I’m going to be basically blacklisted. Is there a way for other clubs to know our history??
 

The wife made a mistake and trying so hard to take it easy on her but dang… Anyone ever experience anything like this and an in person appeal go your way? 

First  case I ever tried as a prosecutor, guy drives north in the southbound lane of the interstate. Says the Jack interacted with his heart meds. Didn't work, but damn interesting attempt at a defense.....

Edited December 21, 2021 by jwb10

[dugue4]

@FormerBigDaddy please channel your inner Paul Harvey. 

[bobfoster]

9 hours ago, TheNutman said:

Even if you won the appeal, would you really want to be a part of a club where you aren't welcomed entirely? 

“I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.” (Groucho Marx resigning from the Friar's Club). 🤣

[FormerBigDaddy]

Hey all… didn’t mean to cause a stir but I’m just not going to air out the details on here. Call me paranoid but you never know. Especially before the hearing even happens. I’ll update you after I know the final result but it won’t be for awhile with the holidays and all. If I was on the other end of this I’d be curious too and I apologize for the direction of this thread. Really just wanted to know if anyone had been through something like this before and had an appeal go their way. Thanks for the good advice from everyone. 

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Hey all… didn’t mean to cause a stir but I’m just not going to air out the details on here. Call me paranoid but you never know. Especially before the hearing even happens. I’ll update you after I know the final result but it won’t be for awhile with the holidays and all. If I was on the other end of this I’d be curious too and I apologize for the direction of this thread. Really just wanted to know if anyone had been through something like this before and had an appeal go their way. Thanks for the good advice from everyone. 

 

Totally understand. 

 

But this is, after all, WRX heading into winter. Pro golf is in the hit-and-giggle silly season. Half the country is too cold to play in. WRXers are bored and have nothing better to talk about, so your post was just fresh meat. So obviously it invoked an almost universal Dirty Harry response (metaphorically speaking): "Did she fire five times or six with the most powerful handgun in the world? We gotsta know!!!!" (heehee). 

 

But I personally get your reticence to share details. All I'll say from experience (having belonged to a lot of clubs over the years, and even participated in hearings) is to just read the room at the hearing. 

 

Without knowing the details, I'd say the following. If it is really one isolated incident, and not an incident that was just a final, extreme level of a ongoing pattern of behavior, there's a very good chance that with your full acceptance of responsibility and a sincere promise that it won't happen again, your family will be able to remain members. (And if it was an ongoing pattern of behavior, your family has much bigger problems than a golf membership - you need to get her help).

 

Be diplomatic. Praise the club. Speak as warmly of it as you have here. Most of the hearings I've participated in as a "judge" had the underlying intention of looking for reasons to keep the person, not looking for reasons to expel them. Give them reasons to keep you.

 

The only exception to this I've seen (again, this is just experience), is when specific personalities are involved. Some clubs, at the leadership level, can be quite political. If your wife made the unfortunate mistake of insulting a particularly powerful member, this might be personal. Caddyshack was certainly intended to be satire, but there actually are "Judge Smails" characters at some clubs - big fish in little ponds. If that's the case, you may be out of luck, but not necessarily. 

 

[Parenthetically? If you are expelled, do not take legal action. That will pretty much assure no club will ever accept you in the future. It would appear in even the most basic of background checks that are the norm these days.]

 

Bottom line? If for some reason the club is looking for a reason to expel you, your wife gave them the ammo to do so. You'll be gone. If, however, they are looking for words from you that let them be comfortable keeping you - just give those words to them. 

 

Understand their position. If your wife made a scene that upset other members, the leadership will feel required to investigate. And they know that if they allow you to remain, they'll feel like they'll need to justify that decision. Give them what they need to justify it. 

 

My $0.02.

Edited December 20, 2021 by bobfoster

[Gsea]

2 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Hey all… didn’t mean to cause a stir but I’m just not going to air out the details on here. Call me paranoid but you never know. Especially before the hearing even happens. I’ll update you after I know the final result but it won’t be for awhile with the holidays and all. If I was on the other end of this I’d be curious too and I apologize for the direction of this thread. Really just wanted to know if anyone had been through something like this before and had an appeal go their way. Thanks for the good advice from everyone. 

you really going thru with a hearing? Think of your kids at the pool. If you are reinstated and go back you def got some large ones. Good luck with that.

[Mustard_Tiger]

If a club said they wanted to expel me I'd say fine with me. GFY.

 

I'm not about begging people to take my money.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Mustard_Tiger

[teedub21]

Question for the OP, was there a sizable initiation fee?  If so are they returning some or all of it?

Edited December 20, 2021 by teedub21

[FormerBigDaddy]

7 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Totally understand. 

 

But this is, after all, WRX heading into winter. Pro golf is in the hit-and-giggle silly season. Half the country is too cold to play in. WRXers are bored and have nothing better to talk about, so your post was just fresh meat. So obviously it invoked an almost universal Dirty Harry response (metaphorically speaking): "Did she fire five times or six with the most powerful handgun in the world? We gotsta know!!!!" (heehee). 

 

But I personally get your reticence to share details. All I'll say from experience (having belonged to a lot of clubs over the years, and even participated in hearings) is to just read the room at the hearing. 

 

Without knowing the details, I'd say the following. If it is really one isolated incident, and not an incident that was just a final, extreme level of a ongoing pattern of behavior, there's a very good chance that with your full acceptance of responsibility and a sincere promise that it won't happen again, your family will be able to remain members. (And if it was an ongoing pattern of behavior, your family has much bigger problems than a golf membership - you need to get her help).

 

Be diplomatic. Praise the club. Speak as warmly of it as you have here. Most of the hearings I've participated in as a "judge" had the underlying intention of looking for reasons to keep the person, not looking for reasons to expel them. Give them reasons to keep you.

 

The only exception to this I've seen (again, this is just experience), is when specific personalities are involved. Some clubs, at the leadership level, can be quite political. If your wife made the unfortunate mistake of insulting a particularly powerful member, this might be personal. Caddyshack was certainly intended to be satire, but there actually are "Judge Smails" characters at some clubs - big fish in little ponds. If that's the case, you may be out of luck, but not necessarily. 

 

[Parenthetically? If you are expelled, do not take legal action. That will pretty much assure no club will ever accept you in the future. It would appear in even the most basic of background checks that are the norm these days.]

 

Bottom line? If for some reason the club is looking for a reason to expel you, your wife gave them the ammo to do so. You'll be gone. If, however, they are looking for words from you that let them be comfortable keeping you - just give those words to them. 

 

Understand their position. If your wife made a scene that upset other members, the leadership will feel required to investigate. And they know that if they allow you to remain, they'll feel like they'll need to justify that decision. Give them what they need to justify it. 

 

My $0.02.

Thank you for this info. I promise I will update everyone when this is settled. 

[2bGood]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Totally understand. 

 

But this is, after all, WRX heading into winter. Pro golf is in the hit-and-giggle silly season. Half the country is too cold to play in. WRXers are bored and have nothing better to talk about, so your post was just fresh meat. So obviously it invoked an almost universal Dirty Harry response (metaphorically speaking): "Did she fire five times or six with the most powerful handgun in the world? We gotsta know!!!!" (heehee). 

 

But I personally get your reticence to share details. All I'll say from experience (having belonged to a lot of clubs over the years, and even participated in hearings) is to just read the room at the hearing. 

 

Without knowing the details, I'd say the following. If it is really one isolated incident, and not an incident that was just a final, extreme level of a ongoing pattern of behavior, there's a very good chance that with your full acceptance of responsibility and a sincere promise that it won't happen again, your family will be able to remain members. (And if it was an ongoing pattern of behavior, your family has much bigger problems than a golf membership - you need to get her help).

 

Be diplomatic. Praise the club. Speak as warmly of it as you have here. Most of the hearings I've participated in as a "judge" had the underlying intention of looking for reasons to keep the person, not looking for reasons to expel them. Give them reasons to keep you.

 

The only exception to this I've seen (again, this is just experience), is when specific personalities are involved. Some clubs, at the leadership level, can be quite political. If your wife made the unfortunate mistake of insulting a particularly powerful member, this might be personal. Caddyshack was certainly intended to be satire, but there actually are "Judge Smails" characters at some clubs - big fish in little ponds. If that's the case, you may be out of luck, but not necessarily. 

 

[Parenthetically? If you are expelled, do not take legal action. That will pretty much assure no club will ever accept you in the future. It would appear in even the most basic of background checks that are the norm these days.]

 

Bottom line? If for some reason the club is looking for a reason to expel you, your wife gave them the ammo to do so. You'll be gone. If, however, they are looking for words from you that let them be comfortable keeping you - just give those words to them. 

 

Understand their position. If your wife made a scene that upset other members, the leadership will feel required to investigate. And they know that if they allow you to remain, they'll feel like they'll need to justify that decision. Give them what they need to justify it. 

 

My $0.02.

This is very solid advice. I been on the 'jury' side of suspensions before and expulsions, and I was always looking for reason to be lenient. The suspensions we always took into account people 'owning' the mistake.

 

The expulsions were never reversed, and were frankly pretty cut and dry - mainly failing to pay their bills, but one was multiple suspension and then he got too drunk (again) and punched someone in the bar. 

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, 2bGood said:

This is very solid advice. I been on the 'jury' side of suspensions before and expulsions, and I was always looking for reason to be lenient. The suspensions we always took into account people 'owning' the mistake.

 

The expulsions were never reversed, and were frankly pretty cut and dry - mainly failing to pay their bills, but one was multiple suspension and then he got too drunk (again) and punched someone in the bar. 

One expulsion we had was a really nice guy who had an issue paying his bills. He was a John Daily type in allot of ways (even physically). A super gifted golfer, but he blew a D1 scholarship with some bad decisions and found his way to being a tradesman. The owner of his company, who was a member already, paid for his initiation and monthly dues as a bonus to him for great work at the company.

 

Well there was some 'confusion' with the man on how golf clubs worked and he was somehow under the impression that it was 'all inclusive' and ran up about $10K in expenses his first few months. 🙄 Super nice guy, but not the brightest bulb. Needless to say he could not pay his bill. His boss stepped in and settled his account.

 

With that out of the way he went being back to being a regular member in good standing, but it was not long before he ran up a massive bill a second time and could not pay as he had penchant for making short term decisions and not thinking long term consequences. We did no so much 'kick him out' as everyone involved agreed it was best he leave. It was very clear after that why his golf career and D1 position dried up fast despite his high talent for the game. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by 2bGood

[displayname]

I know everyone here is being somewhat sympathetic, but if we are to believe this was caused purely by one drunken incident, maybe you accept the punishment that was earned and work on some things. 
 

Most people have had a night where they had a little too much, but that usually doesn’t result in an issue like this. If there’s club drama and politics involved, that’s one thing. Worth appealing but that’ll still be there if you are granted an appeal. But if she really did something big enough to warrant this, I think you might have other priorities to worry about. 

 

Either way, seems like bridges have been burned and the membership won’t feel the same anyway. 

[tomba51]

At my club, 2 couples were dining (and drinking) together on the veranda. There is a no smoking policy in the clubhouse, but one of the guys thought that since he was outside on the veranda it would be ok to smoke. One of the servers reminded him about the no smoking policy and she was insulted by the smoker. The wife of the other couple chided him for smoking and for insulting the server.  He told her to shut up. The other man defended his wife. Words were exchanged, a punch thrown, and the other guy was knocked to the ground. The police were called and the man was arrested, although eventually no charges were filed. Poof, there was a hearing and then a suspension. Since we are in a gated golf community, not a free standing golf club, the suspension was for a 3 month period, not permanent. He still has to live here after all. But the message was sent, and he has not been seen around the golf course or the clubhouse ever since. 

 

Hopefully your wife's behavior did not rise to this level. If it did, I would think that you would not have a very good chance at the hearing.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by tomba51

[vandyfan]

The cynic in me thinks that if this is a high demand club with a waitlist then it almost benefits them to expel you. Especially if they keep the initiation. 

 

The other side is if it is a high-end country club then, yes, one slip up is PLENTY to get you kicked out especially if you family didn't come over on the mayflower. If this is like a neighborhood golf community then this is ridiculous. It really depends how high end and in demand the club is, to me. 

[hammersia]

Amazed this has got to three pages with no details and hence no intelligent way to comment on what happens next or offer any worthwhile advice. 

 

If the police were involved then probably no chance, if not then a definite maybe. Is that any help to the OP?

[DavePelz4]

After doing some research, apparently in her stupor, she asked if a 4HDCP could beat an LPGA pro.

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, Gsea said:

you really going thru with a hearing? Think of your kids at the pool. If you are reinstated and go back you def got some large ones. Good luck with that.

 

I've never been a member of any club of this type.

 

Is a suspension such as this generally reported to the entire membership ? Surely if the action(s) were very noticeable a fair number of other members present would spread the word but if it was a relatively quite infraction would everybody know about it ?

 

Would anyone know about such a hearing ? Or would people just wonder "Whatever happened to that nice couple ?"

 

How's that work exactly ?

[mshills]

I also think equity / non-equity club will have some bearing too.  You generally have to work pretty hard to get kicked out of an equity club.  Example:

 

Piedmont Driving Club 2012 uproar

 

I was not a member of this club....and I wonder what was the final resolution 😄😄😄

[Abh159]

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I've never been a member of any club of this type.

 

Is a suspension such as this generally reported to the entire membership ? Surely if the action(s) were very noticeable a fair number of other members present would spread the word but if it was a relatively quite infraction would everybody know about it ?

 

Would anyone know about such a hearing ? Or would people just wonder "Whatever happened to that nice couple ?"

 

How's that work exactly ?

 

I don't think a "quiet infraction" would result in an immediate expulsion so I highly doubt that is what happened here. The OP also stated that the incident happened at a ladies social event so it's safe to assume this was a public incident that happened in front of a number of other people.

 

As far as how everyone would find out - Think of it like this... When you were growing up and in school you knew within a few hours if a kid got suspended or expelled, and it wasn't because the Principal got on the intercom and announce it to the entire student body. It was because gossip like that will spread like wildfire.

[2bGood]

 

 

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I've never been a member of any club of this type.

 

Is a suspension such as this generally reported to the entire membership ? Surely if the action(s) were very noticeable a fair number of other members present would spread the word but if it was a relatively quite infraction would everybody know about it ?

 

Would anyone know about such a hearing ? Or would people just wonder "Whatever happened to that nice couple ?"

 

How's that work exactly ?

 

Some clubs do report violations to all members in some way though it is getting less common (we literally had a notice board for this back in the day). However, no formal reporting is usually needed though as you have the members involved the incident, the members involved in governance and staff at the club that all end up talking about it. You likely even have some meeting minutes of some kind that all members can read. 

 

The definition of a secret at a private golf club is information you only tell 3 people at a time. Gossip gets out. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by 2bGood

[sittingbull]

I say go to the hearing and whip it out and pee on the

 floor (for dominance) turn around wipe your feet and leave.. or not

[Mr. Bean]

9 minutes ago, sittingbull said:

I say go to the hearing and whip it out and pee on the

 floor (for dominance) turn around wipe your feet and leave.. or not

 

This reminds me of a joke.

 

Brad was with his pals sitting in a bar and he said to the others:

- I bet 200 bucks I can go to the bar counter and pee onto the floor while the bartender watching and he will do nothing!

- No way, that can't be done! I take the bet!

 

So, Brad wanders off to the bar counter, opens his zipper and pees onto the floor, and the bartender is just watching and mildly grinning. Brad comes back to the table and collects his 200 bucks. One of the guys asks

- How did you do that??

- Well, I asked him if I could pee onto the floor if I gave him 100 bucks and he said yes, provided I clean it up. Gotta go cleaning.

 

[GLF4EVR]

Have not caught this one being asked.  Is the wife "repentant" for what had happened?  If so, the next question is directed at the member's who have been on the panel to judge these things.

 

Would it help if the wife also attended to offer her apologies for what had happened? 

[nsxguy]

23 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I don't think a "quiet infraction" would result in an immediate expulsion so I highly doubt that is what happened here. The OP also stated that the incident happened at a ladies social event so it's safe to assume this was a public incident that happened in front of a number of other people.

 

As far as how everyone would find out - Think of it like this... When you were growing up and in school you knew within a few hours if a kid got suspended or expelled, and it wasn't because the Principal got on the intercom and announce it to the entire student body. It was because gossip like that will spread like wildfire.

 

Yeppers.

 

I also remember that a kid got suspended for putting gum under his desk but by the time *I* heard about it he had slugged a teacher.

 

Point is, even though multiple people were there the story often becomes somewhat muddied.

 

Should the committee decide the infraction wasn't worth expulsion they can always let it be known it was "just a misunderstanding and it won't be repeated".

 

Now if the missus actually DID punch someone out, not too much you can do about hiding that. 🙃

[nsxguy]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

This reminds me of a joke.

 

Brad was with his pals sitting in a bar and he said to the others:

- I bet 200 bucks I can go to the bar counter and pee onto the floor while the bartender watching and he will do nothing!

- No way, that can't be done! I take the bet!

 

So, Brad wanders off to the bar counter, opens his zipper and pees onto the floor, and the bartender is just watching and mildly grinning. Brad comes back to the table and collects his 200 bucks. One of the guys asks

- How did you do that??

- Well, I asked him if I could pee onto the floor if I gave him 100 bucks and he said yes, provided I clean it up. Gotta go cleaning.

 

 

[BIG STU]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:37 AM, Bob Cat said:

No way I'd want to stay there.  Prior to appeal, ask if they'll accept a resignation with pro-rated refund.  If they won't, threaten a $hit show at appeal from your wife and possibly an attorney.  They need to feel a little heat in what may have been a knee-jerk expulsion.

 

Oh, and your wife probably just had an adverse reaction to the amines in her red wine.  Yes?

 

@Hawkeye77 Love your annual Steve and Eydie avatar.

Only thing about the lawyer part most upscale clubs have some lawyers in the membership. If that is the case you can bet the powers that be have dotted their "eyes" and crossed their "tees". In an unrelated incident here when the covid thing started they wrote a upscale club here on a Emergency Violation involving the amount of people at a gathering threating to pull their alcohol license. The owners at our club were scared to death. I tried to bet one of our owners $1000 nothing would happen. I further told him (the citation was wrote on a Saturday) that Monday morning 15 minutes after the open of business that ticket would be thrown out and the SLED agent may be on traffic detail. He would not bet me though. I know the club and some of the members who 3 of them are prominent lawyers. I will not call the name of the club because one of our fellow WRXers is a member there. The citation of course got tossed and honestly do not know the status of the agent who wrote the citation

[Krt22]

Either she did something very egregious or there is something else going on (ie you have made an enemy of a board member somehow didn't know it). I've seen/heard of some pretty rowdy drunken behavior, and it typically only results in a suspension.