Anyone Successfully Shortened Swing?

[Asizzle10]

I’ve stagnated for 4 years despite lots of lessons and lots of practice. I’m stuck at around a 12 index. My instructor and I believe it’s due to my backswing being past parallel and my trail hand coming off club at top.

 

I just have put off trying to shorten my backswing because I know it takes some serious time and dedication. I’m ready to hammer this out over next couple months.

 

Hoping someone who went through this can share their improvement after shortening? Is there light on the other side?

[rondo01]

Currently working on this and can speak to my process, which will hopefully have the right outcomes. First, I’ve personally found that “just do it” is hard as hell if not impossible. Gotta figure out what’s causing it. For me, it’s that my backswing arms and body aren’t in sync - I have arm over run. The cues I’m currently focusing on are…

 

1. full turn into the trail leg

2. Earlier wrist set

3. Remapping my feel

4. just do it

 

I’m doing a ton of freezers followed by a full rep on video; and trying to regain a sense of what a full BS feels like. Right now, what feels like a pocket to pocket swing is a full backswing for me. 
 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by rondo01

[dunkotime]

I have has some success with this approach.  Backswing is for a medium length chip or pitch to a full finish.  
 

You are not going to hit it regular distance, but stick with it and you will get more and more used to it.  Helps with sequencing too.  
 

One has to over correct to correct.

 

 

[finleysg]

I spent the better part of a year doing 9 to 3 shots every time I practiced. Sometimes just as a warm up, and at times that was all I did.

 

At first I had to pause to ensure I didn't go any further than 9 o'clock. Combined that with working my hands as far away from my body as possible. Added deeper right hip on the takeaway and focused on a full turn, all while still going no deeper than 9 o'clock. Do the same while crowding the ball more and more.

 

Basically I was playing around with how to generate power with a more compact swing.

 

I haven't had the time or inclination to do much practicing over the past 3 years, but I'm pretty sure this work has stuck with me.

[mshills]

See Monte’s “No Turn Cast” drill!

[jtmagic]

Following.  This is my main goal for the next few months. 

[glk]

Yes. Long ago I used to see the club head a la John Daly.  Flat turn.

 

what I learned and did to shorten it.   Learned to pivot pelvis on a tilted axis.   This involves proper knee action - lead knee flexes out toward toes and trail knee extends.  Lead about doubles while trail only loses maybe 8-10*.     See dr kwon band drill for a good exercise.

 

learned to sequences arms and pivot in takeaway.

good drill. https://www.instagram.com/p/CB79dWvlUgg/
 

Turning the pelvis on tilted axis will naturally restrict the turn but still allow for 40-50* based on flexibility - this also promotes side bend in backswing which again on a tilted axis is going to reduce torso turn but not inhibit it.

 

then Nike drill - have to get arm motion to stop with shoulder turn.  My intent is to have my hands be as far away from my head as possible at the top.    It is a feel.   If you can make a huge turn a la dj or Rory then hands come close to being behind the head but above and still away with the huge turn allowing this without any arm structure break down.

ends of the spectrum but all involve a good pivot with arms and body working together right from the start.

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by glk

[liquorandpoker]

Went from Mickelson long to just longer than Rham.  It has made my game much better and more concistent.  Distance actually improved and so did ball flight.  Focus was on:

1. Maintaining width by keeping right hand away (kept hands and arms from getting behind me)

2. Initiating downswing by bringing the hands down and tipping the clubhead out.  This gave the club the momentum to stay in front of me.

3. Being patient / not feeling rushed to the ball from the top with so much less room than before (this is the hard one - trusting it is a struggle)

[erikro]

2 hours ago, mshills said:

See Monte’s “No Turn Cast” drill!

Exactly. He tells you how to do it. 

[Asizzle10]

Thanks guys. Plenty of drills and videos online. I guess my question was more “Did you improve” not “how did you”. But it sounds like everyone who was able to shorten their swing is happy with the results.

[liquorandpoker]

7 minutes ago, Asizzle10 said:

Thanks guys. Plenty of drills and videos online. I guess my question was more “Did you improve” not “how did you”. But it sounds like everyone who was able to shorten their swing is happy with the results.

Yes, I did improve:

1. More consistent contact

2. More penetrating ball flight

3. More distance across the board

 

Otherwise, same as before 🤣

[absoludicrous]

I had a pretty short backswing and took a break from golf for a few years. When I picked things back up, I started getting a longer and longer backswing and struggled with my ball striking where that was once a strength for me. Now that I’m starting to sort things out, I’m remembering my old feeling and started to try to get back to my short backswing. I have seen some really good results for my consistency and distance control as I’m hitting the center of the face much more often with the controlled swing.

 

The problem is that once I start making a few good swings in a row, my backswing starts to get longer and longer and the inconsistency comes back again. Yesterday I started out with 2 pars on the first 2 holes and started to feel very confident. The next few holes I noticed my ball striking was starting to become inconsistent and trending in the wrong direction. I finally figured out halfway through the back 9 I needed to shorten my swing again and I started to make that good contact again and shot par 3 out of the last 5 holes. 

 

It has physically been working great for me. It has mentally been challenging to stay focused and continue to stay disciplined once I start striking it well throughout 18 holes. I think that I can squeeze out some more yardage with the longer backswing and that’s where inconsistent ball striking starts to happen for me.

 

I have other issues I’m fighting through like my tempo and face control. But I notice when I’m striking the ball the best, my backswing is controlled and shorter like Rahm. Usually those other issues fix themselves when I have a shorter backswing.

[golfarb1]

 

Four  easy setup changes   and one backswing aid toward a shorter swing

1. Do NOT  flare out your trail foot

2. Flare out your lead foot 1/4 turn 

Flaring out the feet increases the  potential range of motion of  external hip rotation and reduces the potential range of internal hip rotation for each respective hip.
Less range of motion of lead hip internal rotation  translates to less knee movement away from the target going back and less pelvis “ rotation”

 

3. Do NOT close your stance 

4. Open your stance slightly by pulling back your lead foot 1” away from the target line 

 Closing the stance moves your back hip socket away from the target line , while opening the stance moves your front hip socket away from the target line 

 

Backswing aid

Cut  an old credit card  in half and place it DEEP INSIDE your lead armpit  ;don’t drop it going back . 

Edited January 2, 2022 by golfarb1

[Hilts1969]

First thing I check is my shoulder turn, if I get lazy, lack concentration or tired I end up not turning much and just let my arms do all the work. With a big shoulder turn I find it almost impossible to overswing the arms. The driver going badly is the big tell tale sign. 

[dunkotime]

7 hours ago, liquorandpoker said:

Yes, I did improve:

1. More consistent contact

2. More penetrating ball flight

3. More distance across the board

 

Otherwise, same as before 🤣

Same results for me.  Better contact being the most notable.

[LeftDaddy]

I’ve been successful shortening my swing with my irons, but not as much with my driver. I did a lot of 80% swings at one time. That, plus focusing on keeping my trail elbow wide, are the key contributors to helping me with this. 
 

Two other things helped that haven’t been mentioned so far:

 

- more complete body turn on the way back - reduced my early hip turn. This is a biggie, as your hip turn completes but your swing is nowhere near complete, so the arms have to run on. 

[Pete O'Tube]

Just get old and have a bad back. Your swing will certainly get shorter!

[Mike_C]

On 1/2/2022 at 9:12 AM, glk said:

Yes. Long ago I used to see the club head a la John Daly.  Flat turn.

 

what I learned and did to shorten it.   Learned to pivot pelvis on a tilted axis.   This involves proper knee action - lead knee flexes out toward toes and trail knee extends.  Lead about doubles while trail only loses maybe 8-10*.     See dr kwon band drill for a good exercise.

 

learned to sequences arms and pivot in takeaway.

good drill. https://www.instagram.com/p/CB79dWvlUgg/
 

Turning the pelvis on tilted axis will naturally restrict the turn but still allow for 40-50* based on flexibility - this also promotes side bend in backswing which again on a tilted axis is going to reduce torso turn but not inhibit it.

 

then Nike drill - have to get arm motion to stop with shoulder turn.  My intent is to have my hands be as far away from my head as possible at the top.    It is a feel.   If you can make a huge turn a la dj or Rory then hands come close to being behind the head but above and still away with the huge turn allowing this without any arm structure break down.

ends of the spectrum but all involve a good pivot with arms and body working together right from the start.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I have been working on, and have really started to see results. 

 

My problem was thinking lifting my arms up was really a shoulder turn.... in the old days I could also see the club out the corner of my eye at the top of the backswing, but that was only because I kept moving my arms up and disconnecting them from the rest of my body.  This move was paired with poor lower body/hip action were leading to early extension.....

 

What I have worked on is getting the hip turn correct, and the sense of keeping the club in front of me on the backswing, and the "feel" of keeping my hands as far away from my body as I can go back, but not lifting them past what feels like parallel.  The end of the backswing is really the sense of the right shoulder  "finishing" the backswing by moving back. AMG talks about it here:

 

[sprcoop]

I used to see the clubhead on my backswing.  This caused a flip with serious early release no shaft lean to square the face. 

 

Shortened to just parallel with longer clubs, not quite parallel with shorter.  I now have a bigger shoulder turn with less over run.

 

Accomplished by pushing with trail arm (less trail elbow bend and keeping trail elbow more in front of me) not breaking lead elbow and not cupping lead wrist. 

 

Better trajectory and at least some shaft lean with all the good things that go with that.

[Barfolomew]

Yeah do it!  Love my shorter back swing.  I think A LOT of players get in trouble with a full length parallel swing.... its a game of millimeters and that's a lot of downswing to manage.

 

The shorter backswing is great for accuracy obviously BUT there is no loss of power either! Figure it out.

[jut111]

havent seen it mentioned, but culprit, especially if right hand is coming off is too much wrist c0ck.  Channel your inner steve stricker and Bryson.  learn about radial vs ulnar deviation is.  

[MK7Golf21]

23 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

 

Four  easy setup changes   and one backswing aid toward a shorter swing

1. Do NOT  flare out your trail foot

2. Flare out your lead foot 1/4 turn 

Flaring out the feet increases the  potential range of motion of  external hip rotation and reduces the potential range of internal hip rotation for each respective hip.
Less range of motion of lead hip internal rotation  translates to less knee movement away from the target going back and less pelvis “ rotation”

 

3. Do NOT close your stance 

4. Open your stance slightly by pulling back your lead foot 1” away from the target line 

 Closing the stance moves your back hip socket away from the target line , while opening the stance moves your front hip socket away from the target line 

 

Backswing aid

Cut  an old credit card  in half and place it DEEP INSIDE your lead armpit  ;don’t drop it going back . 

 

I would say the problem is mostly arm overswing and not with the shoulder/hip turn. You want full shoulder and hip turns, that isn't a bad thing. Look at Dustin Johnson and Rory's shoulder turns on the backswing, its maxed out.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Redjeep83

[dvq9654]

My advice through my own experience - take 10,000+ 3/4 or 1/2 swings. The reason I say 3/4 or 1/2 is you need to figure out what feels like the swing length you want based on video and then ingrain that. If you want to work on tilts (e.g., more tilts make harder to take a longer swing) or the other things people have said in this thread, that's 100% fine, but you have to take what feel like tiny swings for as long as it takes or the change won't happen. 

[Tanner25]

7 hours ago, Pete O'Tube said:

Just get old and have a bad back. Your swing will certainly get shorter!

 

Plus 1. Add a frozen shoulder and I no longer have arm over run lol.

[glk]

6 hours ago, Mike_C said:

 

 

This is exactly what I have been working on, and have really started to see results. 

 

My problem was thinking lifting my arms up was really a shoulder turn.... in the old days I could also see the club out the corner of my eye at the top of the backswing, but that was only because I kept moving my arms up and disconnecting them from the rest of my body.  This move was paired with poor lower body/hip action were leading to early extension.....

 

What I have worked on is getting the hip turn correct, and the sense of keeping the club in front of me on the backswing, and the "feel" of keeping my hands as far away from my body as I can go back, but not lifting them past what feels like parallel.  The end of the backswing is really the sense of the right shoulder  "finishing" the backswing by moving back. AMG talks about it here:

 

Yeah sounds like you are working well.   Note the photos I posted - can see the right scapula in all them - really full turn.   An old iteach intent I used and still use is to get my right shoulder over my left foot.  Do this and with a shift of the ball this is pretty much the recentering amg and kwon talks about.  

[mikpga]

How does one define shorter?

[PracticeSwinger]

2 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

I would say the problem is mostly arm overswing and not with the shoulder/hip turn. You want full shoulder and hip turns, that isn't a bad thing. Look at Dustin Johnson and Rory's shoulder turns on the backswing, its maxed out.

I’d guess it’s more when the arms overrun the shoulder turn (losing synchronization, a few frames of only arms movement) that cause all sort of lovely problems for amateurs; in particular low point (sway-slide / tilts) and face (loose wrists action) control 

[golfarb1]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

I would say the problem is mostly arm overswing and not with the shoulder/hip turn. You want full shoulder and hip turns, that isn't a bad thing. Look at Dustin Johnson and Rory's shoulder turns on the backswing, its maxed out.

Except in the video “elbow move quiz”, I do not like to use Dustin Johnson as a swing model because his mobility is so far beyond the norms even for tour players , but here are screen shots of Dustin and Rory at the top. 
Yes both of them have large  shoulder turns  even as their pelvis is clearly restricted . And yes both have far above average torso mobility  that permits them to restrict their pelvis movement even as they make complete shoulder turns . 
I am hardly suggesting that either a full shoulder turn  or that sufficient “rotation of the pelvis is bad. 

What I am implying is that many amateurs  overswing because they over “rotate”their pelvis AND / OR fake their shoulder turns by disconnecting and lifting their arms . 
The first 4 suggestions directly affect the ability to move the pelvis , while using the credit card helps with connection of the VERY UPPER lead arm and a fake shoulder turn . 
 

[CasualLie]

@Asizzle10

 

There is absolutely light on the other side, and lower scores.  All facets of your game will get better as you will have much better face control and more accurate impact.  

 

Check your grip and setup, kind of surprised your instructor is seemingly stumped on this.  I'm pretty flexible and years ago would get called a pretzel the way I twisted around over over swing.  I tried on my own to fix it and in one lesson with Monte, cured forever. It was a matter of a little adjustments on grip/setup.  Proper tilt at setup with a proper grip and it is pretty tough to overswing.

 

I later had the same problem of a gap in the grip at the top.  Turned out I was getting lazy over the years, but once rededicating to a proper in the fingers grip with more pressure, that was cured pretty quick too.

 

Under the right instruction, neither one of these problems will take months to fix.  Regardless, do it, your scores will go down and your short game much better too.

[MK7Golf21]

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Except in the video “elbow move quiz”, I do not like to use Dustin Johnson as a swing model because his mobility is so far beyond the norms even for tour players , but here are screen shots of Dustin and Rory at the top. 
Yes both of them have large  shoulder turns  even as their pelvis is clearly restricted . And yes both have far above average torso mobility  that permits them to restrict their pelvis movement even as they make complete shoulder turns . 
I am hardly suggesting that either a full shoulder turn  or that sufficient “rotation of the pelvis is bad. 

What I am implying is that many amateurs  overswing because they over “rotate”their pelvis AND / OR fake their shoulder turns by disconnecting and lifting their arms . 
The first 4 suggestions directly affect the ability to move the pelvis , while using the credit card helps with connection of the VERY UPPER lead arm and a fake shoulder turn . 
 

I agree on comparing to Dj, just pointing out full shoulder and hip turns are a good thing especially when done correctly. Amateur golfers are too stiff as it is from sitting all day to start trying to shorten everything so I never agreed when they would be told to feel a half swing as a fix. There are some good fixes on width with arms in this thread.