Order of Play

[jmcm87]

I've noticed it more and more, especially in tournament golf. 

Are we gradually losing the 'honor' of the tee box? 

I can understand the need at times in tournament play when you hole out to get to your bag and maybe get a slight head start to the next tee box, but where do we stand as far as who has the honor? Are we losing this concept? 

I've played my share of competitive golf, and a lot with D1 college kids who aren't shy about walking all the way to the green after hitting from the fairway while their playing partners are getting ready to play their approach shots. 

 

Where do you stand on this? do you care? do you think speed should trump tradition?

[Mr. Bean]

First question would be: Why would we need the honor in the first place?

 

I could not care less. The one who is ready, plays. Simple.

 

But this:

'D1 college kids who aren't shy about walking all the way to the green after hitting from the fairway while their playing partners are getting ready to play their approach shots. '

 

has nothing to do with 'the honor'. That is simply rude behavior.

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[sui generis]

Rule 6.4b has some things to say about order of play during stroke play.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=6&subrulenum=4

 

I am (or was) a busy referee. I don't see many problems from juniors or college players.

 

 

[nsxguy]

Match Play - important.

 

Stroke Play - If in a formal competition I'd stand back and let a player who'd just made a birdie or better go first. If he/she wasn't ready I'd suggest "I'm ready, mind if I hit ?"

 

If he/she did mind I'd probably wait.

 

In casual play or less formal comps the entire group would probably agree on "ready golf" from the first tee so, a non-factor.

 

In a team event the better player will usually hit last just in case he/she needed to make a strategic play if the previous players found trouble.

[jmcm87]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

First question would be: Why would we need the honor in the first place?

 

I could not care less. The one who is ready, plays. Simple.

 

But this:

'D1 college kids who aren't shy about walking all the way to the green after hitting from the fairway while their playing partners are getting ready to play their approach shots. '

 

has nothing to do with 'the honor'. That is simply rude behavior.

 

I think it's all driven by pace of play. I get it, some of these state am's are 5 1/2 hours on a course less than 7000 yards which is crazy. One instance above for the D1 kids was during a US Am qualifier. Had my dad on the bag, he counted 7 times he was walking ahead of me while I was hitting second shots. I get it, pace of play, but where do we draw the line?

[klebs01]

46 minutes ago, jmcm87 said:

I think it's all driven by pace of play. I get it, some of these state am's are 5 1/2 hours on a course less than 7000 yards which is crazy. One instance above for the D1 kids was during a US Am qualifier. Had my dad on the bag, he counted 7 times he was walking ahead of me while I was hitting second shots. I get it, pace of play, but where do we draw the line?

No honors except match play period. 
 

You should definitely get walking ahead to your ball or to the green. Head on a swivel, and pause as a person is about to address their ball, then resume walking once the ball is in the air. 

[Halebopp]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

First question would be: Why would we need the honor in the first place?

 

I could not care less. The one who is ready, plays. Simple.

 

But this:

'D1 college kids who aren't shy about walking all the way to the green after hitting from the fairway while their playing partners are getting ready to play their approach shots. '

 

has nothing to do with 'the honor'. That is simply rude behavior.

 

 

I like honours as it keeps life simple. If I made a double bogey and no one else made worse than a bogey, I know I have the time to take a sip of water, mark my scorecard etc. If I made the lone bird, I know to get ready to hit and everything else can wait. The same applies to "furthest out", you know when it's your turn. I don't like to waste time and energy on wondering or asking who wants to go next. Naturally there are exceptions and if some players struggle to be ready when it's their turn, I don't feel bad about hitting before them.

 

Of course, as a rules official I hope the players in a tournament play in any way that's fastest to them without distracting others in the group. 🙂

[krtgolfing]

All of rounds are casual rounds that I play for fun, so it is 99% ready golf. The only time I may wait is if someone made a birdie or better, which isn't very often. If the person who made birdie is not close to the tee I would go ahead or would hope someone else would go ahead and hit.  

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

I like honours as it keeps life simple.

 

In a perfect world that would be simple but in our current world it does not as there are always players who are slow to climb up to the tee box or to the green or or or. There are few things in golf equally frustrating than three players standing on the green ready to putt but waiting for the one who has 'the honor' to finish up raking the bunker. Of that same person having the honor at the tee but he is the last one to stroll to the tee box from the latest green and definitively the one who starts marking his score before choosing a club.

 

So, I prefer ready golf with a polite twist 'May I go before you as you do not seem to be ready?'

[Mr. Bean]

18 hours ago, klebs01 said:

You should definitely get walking ahead to your ball or to the green. Head on a swivel, and pause as a person is about to address their ball, then resume walking once the ball is in the air. 

 

This.

 

The OP described persons who do NOT pause and that IMO is rude behavior.

[MisterT]

2 hours ago, krtgolfing said:

All of rounds are casual rounds that I play for fun, so it is 99% ready golf. The only time I may wait is if someone made a birdie or better, which isn't very often. If the person who made birdie is not close to the tee I would go ahead or would hope someone else would go ahead and hit.  

I do things similarly. In our group, birdie or better deserves the chance to "own the tee," provided they are ready. Plus, I don't want any bad karma from hitting before them. 😉

[davep043]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

So, I prefer ready golf with a polite twist 'May I go before you as you do not seem to be ready?'

This!  I've seen too many times where players will be looking around, or at one another, each one assuming that someone else is going to play.  All it takes is a little communication to make things move a little more smoothly.

[Hawkeye77]

Not seeing the "honors" part of the OP - seems to be an issue with one tournament last year with someone walking ahead.  If it's intrusive then why not address the issue the first or second time instead of letting it happen 7 times?  If it's just because he was ahead somewhere and not moving and a not distraction while you are addressing your ball, etc. don't see the problem - Nicklaus always claimed he really wasn't all that slow because he made tracks for his ball while the other guys were getting to theirs, but I'm sure he wasn't standing in someone's line of play, etc.  

 

In our normal play, we're pretty quick anyway.  We aren't taking off ahead of other players just to do it, because it usually isn't necessary, although if walking I'll head up the rough on one side or the other if it seems appropriate (and I'm usually there anyway).  I'm not moving when someone is getting ready to play.  If in carts, sure we'll swing up ahead if the next ball if off the the right or left somewhere, again not in someone's line or distracting to them.

 

As for tee box - if I was in a tournament and the round is moving slow anyway I'd expect players to observe honors, but I don't play tournaments, it doesn't waste any significant time (99% of the time) and is part of the game, IMO.  We generally do in our group(s) (always exceptions) and it doesn't add any time to the rounds and is a nice thing to do, IMO.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[MtlJeff]

In competitions i've never once seen anyone play out of turn on the tee box purposely, at least in person the events i've played in

 

In casual rounds i almost always play ready golf. Though we do typically give honors for birdies just as a show of respect for the birdie

[Abh159]

23 hours ago, jmcm87 said:

I've played my share of competitive golf, and a lot with D1 college kids who aren't shy about walking all the way to the green after hitting from the fairway while their playing partners are getting ready to play their approach shots. 

 

I played D1 golf and we definitely did this. Although we stopped walking when someone was actually hitting their shot, and I would hope the person/people you played with did the same (honestly I'd find it hard to believe if they didn't).

 

A big part of this is that keeping up with the pace is something that is beat into your head in junior golf. Just about every reputable junior tour will penalize a slow group. If your group gets behind at all then the best practice is to keep moving, only stop when someone is hitting, and tee off in the order you get to the box.

 

To the OP... Whoever you played with in that one qualifier wasn't trying to psyche you out or mess up your game. He was most likely doing this because it's standard in junior and college golf, and should probably become the standard for all golf in general. It would lead to much quicker tournaments rounds and be better for everyone.

[jordan2240]

I play mostly casual rounds, but we still like to give 'honor' as a compliment for a good hole (or at least the better hole).  However, if anyone else is ready well before-hand, we expect them to hit.  The exception would obviously be if they cannot hit because of the group ahead, in which case we revert back to giving 'honor'.

Edited January 3, 2022 by jordan2240

[Bonneville85308]

I don't play competitive golf pretty much ever, but I would hate having to pay attention to what other people in the group are scoring on every hole and then have to observe honors on every tee in a stroke play event. Such a waste of time and attention.

[mshills]

Stroke play (non tournament): if the tee box is open and I’m ready to play, I’m going to play!

 

Match play and tournament rounds are different. 

[Mr. Bean]

11 minutes ago, mshills said:

Match play and tournament rounds are different. 

 

On a windy day it may be very beneficial not to have the honor on the tee.

[naval2006]

@Halebopp wrote all I wanted to comment way better than I would.  It’s like there’s a simple rule you just follow it and you’ll be fine. 
 

Anyway in the past handful of years as I play with new golfers I got used to sometimes use ready golf. Some years ago if you hit off when it wasn’t your honour it was frowned upon, even playing a quick 9. 

[rogolf]

33 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

@Halebopp wrote all I wanted to comment way better than I would.  It’s like there’s a simple rule you just follow it and you’ll be fine. 
 

Anyway in the past handful of years as I play with new golfers I got used to sometimes use ready golf. Some years ago if you hit off when it wasn’t your honour it was frowned upon, even playing a quick 9. 

Of all the things that could be listed as priority causes of slow play, the tradition of honour at the teeing ground would, imo, be a long way down that list.

Edited January 3, 2022 by rogolf

[MountainKing]

Outside of match play, like many things in golf, it's an antiquated concept and should go away.   

[jordan2240]

For those who don't like the 'honor' system, I'm curious about how order is determined if you all arrive at the tee box at approximately the same time - or do you just start heading over to the next tee as you putt out, so order is essentially determined by who putts out first.

[llewol007]

For the guys I golf with it usually is ready golf unless you make a birdie or better. Simple as that. If a guy is fumbling in his bag, I’m not going to wait. 

[Mr. Bean]

34 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

For those who don't like the 'honor' system, I'm curious about how order is determined if you all arrive at the tee box at approximately the same time - or do you just start heading over to the next tee as you putt out, so order is essentially determined by who putts out first.

 

I guess we talk to each other more than you guys 😉

 

Don't forget that we walk and you drive a cart, that could have an effect. And no, we do not leave the green before the last one has putted out, unless our group has fallen behind and we try to catch up.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

Of all the things that could be listed as priority causes of slow play, the tradition of honour at the teeing ground would, imo, be a long way down that list.

 

When you combine teeing area and green with it's surroundings you will get a major impact if you stick to the honor.

[Mudguard]

2 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

I don't play competitive golf pretty much ever, but I would hate having to pay attention to what other people in the group are scoring on every hole and then have to observe honors on every tee in a stroke play event. Such a waste of time and attention.

Well you normally would be marking at least one person's card in a group. 

 

I'd say we'd play with whomever is away for maybe 99% of shots in a four-ball. Again I'd say there are plenty of things worse than playing in order. Three foot rough just off fairways in landing zones etc.

It's also a safety thing, which is probably being alluded to in the OP, walking too far ahead is not only rude, but can dangerous. In a perfect world, with four balls in the fairway, shortest reaches theirs first so begins the process. Nothing worse than taking the club back and hearing someone else in your group hit. 

Putting is generally pretty formal as well but we don't get the measuring tape out, and if someone is raking a bunker then someone else will mark their ball so the others can putt etc.

 

Still have to use your brain. I think there is also a fun element too, 75% of our formal rounds are stableford, so we'll play a pairs best ball for a beer as well, nothing like depriving your opponents the honour for eighteen holes!

Edited January 4, 2022 by Mudguard

[rogolf]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

When you combine teeing area and green with it's surroundings you will get a major impact if you stick to the honor.

As you know, "honour" only exists at the teeing area.

 

It just seems to me that many players who play slow are looking for extraneous things (like "honour) to blame for their slow play rather than just looking in the mirror and evaluating all the other things, including personal behaviour, that make their play slow.

Edited January 4, 2022 by rogolf

[Mr. Bean]

48 minutes ago, rogolf said:

As you know, "honour" only exists at the teeing area.

 

It just seems to me that many players who play slow are looking for extraneous things (like "honour) to blame for their slow play rather than just looking in the mirror and evaluating all the other things, including personal behaviour, that make their play slow.

 

Sorry, I took the title of this thread, 'order of play'.

[rogolf]

1 minute ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Sorry, I took the title of this thread, 'order of play'.

And, "honour" would be a subset of order of play. But, as noted, it only applies to the teeing area.