Is it Sandbagging to Post Compettive Round Scores only for Handicap Purposes?

[ilikegolf26]

The title pretty much says it all. I’ve stopped posting casual rounds I play and am only posting competitive rounds only. I was accused (not maliciously) of sandbagging. My response is those are the only rounds I  really ever play where every putt is holed out and the rules are strictly followed. 

[gregen9]

This is an important topic! I’m going through something like a reappraisal myself. We have a non-posting season in the NW so we have our HC ‘frozen’ for about 4 months. I’ve started to update my HC with a mobile app for my betting games (full disclosure to my competitors). But how I got frozen at an unreasonable HC conerns me and discussing with other players found I was in the minority regarding posting all rounds. 
“Competitive rounds” is being used my some of the people I play with (and against). Is this accepable to the USGA? Why should we be posting rounds where putts are given and taken, Same balls are not used through the hole, too many clubs may be in the bag, and lift and place is common?

 

 

[nsxguy]

9 minutes ago, ilikegolf26 said:

The title pretty much says it all. I’ve stopped posting casual rounds I play and am only posting competitive rounds only. I was accused (not maliciously) of sandbagging. My response is those are the only rounds I  really ever play where every putt is holed out and the rules are strictly followed. 

 

Define "sandbagging".

 

Most golfers I'm familiar with play worse in true comps than in casual play. One word - pressure.

 

If that's true in your case, it could be considered sandbagging as your 'cap would be "artificially" higher than it should be.

 

Then again, there are some players who claim they play better in comps because they're more focused, use better course management, etc.

 

If that's true in your case, the yes, your handicap would be artificially lower than it should be and you'd just be cheating yourself.

 

That said, you handicap isn't legitimate in either case; at least not here in the U.S. ALL rounds played by the ROG are post-able for handicap purposes.

 

There are handicapping rules for accounting for holes not finished.

 

 

[pingfool]

Read the rules of golf on posting. Every time you play. Mostly likely score on a hole. ESC. It’s  all there

 

your index is now comprised of a condensed version of your most recent 20 rounds weighted to reflect your upper end potential. 
 

 

[nsxguy]

19 minutes ago, gregen9 said:

This is an important topic! I’m going through something like a reappraisal myself. We have a non-posting season in the NW so we have our HC ‘frozen’ for about 4 months. I’ve started to update my HC with a mobile app for my betting games (full disclosure to my competitors). But how I got frozen at an unreasonable HC conerns me and discussing with other players found I was in the minority regarding posting all rounds. 

“Competitive rounds” is being used my some of the people I play with (and against). Is this accepable to the USGA? Why should we be posting rounds where putts are given and taken, Same balls are not used through the hole, too many clubs may be in the bag, and lift and place is common?

 

 

 

World Handicap System

 

ALL rounds played by the Rules of Golf are post-able IN SEASON, competition or not.

 

Not sure what "got frozen at an unreasonable HC" means but it's frozen as of the end of your season and stays the same until your next season begins.

 

Anybody posting ONLY comps rounds or ONLY casual rounds does not have a "real" handicap index. It could be lower or higher than it "should" be.

 

What you and your buddies decide to do in your own competitions is totally up to you.

 

 

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

13 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

World Handicap System

 

ALL rounds played by the Rules of Golf are post-able IN SEASON, competition or not.

 

 

 

 

 

What if you only play by the "Rules of Golf" in competitions?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mustard_Tiger

[nsxguy]

5 minutes ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

 

What if you only play by the "Rules of Golf" in competitions?

 

 

Here ya go. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

 

WHS ACCEPTABLE SCORES

[Augster]

Can we stop with the “competitive rounds are the only rounds I putt everything out and follow the rules”. It’s BS. 
 

Most everyone I’ve ever played with in casual rounds follow the rules close enough for posting purposes. The US system has had MLS up to ESC for a LONG time and now MLS up to NDB has been implemented in the WHS. 
 

The number is 5 feet. If you are inside 5feet and you pick up, call it a 1-putt. If you’re outside 5 feet, call it a 2-putt. If you are pretty sure you’d have made that 8-footer, call it a 1-putt. None of your future opponents care if your index is artificially a little low. 
 

If you play with at least one other person, post. It’s pretty simple to not be a sandbagger. 

[Mustard_Tiger]

I play the vast majority of my non-competitive rounds as a single. So thanks to the recent changes in the U.S. handicap system I cannot post any of those scores. That has pretty much solved my "did I play by the rules of golf" dilemma. Thanks USGA!

[sui generis]

16 minutes ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

Thanks USGA!

 

And, you echo the thoughts of every handicap committee in the US. 😉

[TwistedSister]

48 minutes ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

I play the vast majority of my non-competitive rounds as a single. So thanks to the recent changes in the U.S. handicap system I cannot post any of those scores. That has pretty much solved my "did I play by the rules of golf" dilemma. Thanks USGA!

Does not alter the fact that you have played enough to know your MLS on any given hole. 

[RCGA]

I've had a hard time wrapping my head around the handicap rules; in large part due to the "can't-post-solo-rounds" BS.

 

I'm happier tracking my progress with strokes gained. I post enough rounds to get a handicap for tournament stuff, but apart from that I simply don't care about it. 

[RCGA]

2 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

I play the vast majority of my non-competitive rounds as a single. So thanks to the recent changes in the U.S. handicap system I cannot post any of those scores. That has pretty much solved my "did I play by the rules of golf" dilemma. Thanks USGA!

 

Taking 5ft gimmies with 3 disinterested strangers makes your round totally legitimate, though. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by RCGA

[davep043]

This is simple to me.  If you choose not to follow the handicapping rules in effect where you play, you're cheating.  I don't see any difference to the player who chooses to disobey certain rules of golf.  Its certainly fair to discuss changes you think should be made, but you should play by the rules and post by the rules.

Edited January 3, 2022 by davep043

[gregen9]

Agree with the consensus. Moment of weakness when I learn what others do.

As far as “frozen at unreasonable HC”- that was only whining! I play with a guy for two years and we are decimals apart in HC. Winter season arrives and I play as an 11 and he at a 14. Unlucky I think is what happened. 
So thanks folks for getting me back on the straight and narrow. 
I have always posted all rounds and will continue to do so.

[Mustard_Tiger]

6 hours ago, davep043 said:

This is simple to me.  If you choose not to follow the handicapping rules in effect where you play, you're cheating.  I don't see any differ once to the player who chooses to disobey certain rules of golf. 

 

When I play with more people than myself I disobey just enough rules of golf to not be able to post my scores. That's following the handicap rules so I'm good.

[sui generis]

5 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

 

When I play with more people than myself I disobey just enough rules of golf to not be able to post my scores. That's following the handicap rules so I'm good.

 

It's no wonder you play alone. 🙄

[naval2006]

I think if the OP plays strictly by the rules only on tournament day then it's ok to only post those cards.  I'm sure most golfers that post a non competitive card don't adhere 100% to the rules of golf.  

[Mr. Bean]

Out of curiosity I ask: is it still mandatory to post all scores (except solo rounds) in USGA area with the WHS in effect?

[davep043]

6 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

 

When I play with more people than myself I disobey just enough rules of golf to not be able to post my scores. That's following the handicap rules so I'm good.

If your intention is to manipulate the system, you're still cheating.

3 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

Out of curiosity I ask: is it still mandatory to post all scores (except solo rounds) in USGA area with the WHS in effect?

Generally speaking, yes.  There are a couple of minor exceptions, but by and large we're required to post all scores for rounds played in the Active Season.  That includes individual and fourball competitions, stroke and match play.

[MtlJeff]

If you typically play worse in competitions than in casual rounds (as most amateurs do) than the answer is yes you are sandbagging.

 

I am also not suggesting this is malicious. If you do not play in handicapped events or gamble with friends etc--you aren't hurting anyone

 

But yes you're sandbagging.

[Abh159]

My club requires all rounds to be posted (unless you're playing by yourself). They won't revoke your membership if you don't follow this rule, but you'll get a few "warnings" and then if it continues you'll be suspended from playing in club competitions for a period of time.

 

I think the whole reason people don't post their "casual rounds" is because of the obvious. They are playing the ball up everywhere when it isn't necessary, they aren't holing out every putt, and etc. Therefore, they are worried their handicap will be lower than it should which will cost them valuable strokes in a competition.

 

My response to that line of thinking is if you want an accurate handicap then stop giving yourself 5 footers...

[dubbelbogey]

18 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

I play the vast majority of my non-competitive rounds as a single. So thanks to the recent changes in the U.S. handicap system I cannot post any of those scores. That has pretty much solved my "did I play by the rules of golf" dilemma. Thanks USGA!

When you say you played as a "single" do you mean you played completely alone - no other strangers in your group?

 

The only scores not postable are those played alone - meaning there was literally no other person(s) accompanying you on your round. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

The World Handicap System arrived in the UK last season and has been an unmitigated disaster. Of course you won't hear that from the Central Politburo controlling England Golf.

Our Clubs fortunately have gibbed at going the full monty with WHS and only require us to submit competitive cards and cards outside competition if previously registered in the Pro Shop. Casual rounds as reported in this thread aren't recorded for handicap.

[davep043]

4 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

The World Handicap System arrived in the UK last season and has been an unmitigated disaster. Of course you won't hear that from the Central Politburo controlling England Golf.

Our Clubs fortunately have gibbed at going the full monty with WHS and only require us to submit competitive cards and cards outside competition if previously registered in the Pro Shop. Casual rounds as reported in this thread aren't recorded for handicap.

Its important to note that the WHS does not require all jurisdictions to use the same criteria for "Acceptable Scores".  Your club has done exactly what your national handicap body (England Golf?) has required of it, and are (almost certainly) completely compliant with the WHS requirements.  The systems have changed, our handicaps are closer to being the same now, but we're not there yet.  

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Its important to note that the WHS does not require all jurisdictions to use the same criteria for "Acceptable Scores".  Your club has done exactly what your national handicap body (England Golf?) has required of it, and are (almost certainly) completely compliant with the WHS requirements.  The systems have changed, our handicaps are closer to being the same now, but we're not there yet.  

 

We are not even close, there are still so many differences around the world.

 

We in Finland are doing the same as in England, which unfortunately gives people an opportunity to manipulate their handicap. But I still prefer the option to declare (beforehand!!) your round to be a postable round than forcing every round to be one. Other differences are the formats. We do not accept any kind of team format nor match play scores to be posted. And we certainly do not have any gimmies over or under 5 feet. If you do not hole out you will have a net DB for that hole.

[Krt22]

Yes, you are a sandbagger.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

21 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Its important to note that the WHS does not require all jurisdictions to use the same criteria for "Acceptable Scores".  Your club has done exactly what your national handicap body (England Golf?) has required of it, and are (almost certainly) completely compliant with the WHS requirements.  The systems have changed, our handicaps are closer to being the same now, but we're not there yet.  

Thanks for that. I was under the mistaken impression that WHS meant exactly that and was a foreign imposition on us 'poor 'ole Brits'.

[tets]

You must post every round of golf you play .. otherwise your handicap is not legit.  You have the option to putt out very hole even if your friends "give" you the putt.  Finish it anyway and post your score.

 

Of course a match play situation can be different. Also you are no longer allowed to post scores if you play alone.

[ThinkingPlus]

15 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Thanks for that. I was under the mistaken impression that WHS meant exactly that and was a foreign imposition on us 'poor 'ole Brits'.

We thought the same except it was a foreign imposition on us poor ole 'Mericans.  LOL!