Doesn't bother me.

[jobin]

Played last week in a small Stableford contest. Three in my group, including one lady. She hit the ball better than average and was never in the woods. She did however, once or twice, take a practice chip or putt after the hole was finished.  No issues with that, of course.  No slow play issues at all.

But she also, twice, after the hole completed, play a ball from a greenside bunker.  She had been in that bunker and hit out poorly so, just like a greenside practice chip shot, she took a 2nd try at the situation.

I asked the other player his opinion, coz i knew this was a 'PENALTY'.  He said, 'didn't bother him'.  And i thought about that.

With no penalty she could have practiced from the sand anytime, if no ball. She practiced her chipping and putting next to/on the green, with the ball. What was the problem with her trying again from the sand? She will not be in THAT sand again that day, might never have that same lie again, would hardly learn anything not already known by her, and most importantly to me, her practice shot after the hole finished had no bearing on her score.

If a player commits a foul which affects her score, (e.g. kick the ball out of a divot), yes call that out.  But if her actions have no effect on the ball in play, I'm gonna keep quiet.  Personally, i don't like being a policeman.

 

 

[Mudguard]

8 minutes ago, jobin said:

But she also, twice, after the hole completed, play a ball from a greenside bunker.  She had been in that bunker and hit out poorly so, just like a greenside practice chip shot, she took a 2nd try at the situation.

I asked the other player his opinion, coz i knew this was a 'PENALTY'.  He said, 'didn't bother him'.  And i thought about that.

With no penalty she could have practiced from the sand anytime, if no ball.

 

 

Just point out the rule to her and be done with it? She may not be aware, then gets pinged for it in a bigger competition?

[Mudguard]

9 minutes ago, jobin said:

Personally, i don't like being a policeman.

 

 

You might not like being a policeman, but you have an obligation to every one else playing that your group plays by the rules. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, jobin said:

Played last week in a small Stableford contest. Three in my group, including one lady. She hit the ball better than average and was never in the woods. She did however, once or twice, take a practice chip or putt after the hole was finished.  No issues with that, of course.  No slow play issues at all.

But she also, twice, after the hole completed, play a ball from a greenside bunker.  She had been in that bunker and hit out poorly so, just like a greenside practice chip shot, she took a 2nd try at the situation.

I asked the other player his opinion, coz i knew this was a 'PENALTY'.  He said, 'didn't bother him'.  And i thought about that.

With no penalty she could have practiced from the sand anytime, if no ball. She practiced her chipping and putting next to/on the green, with the ball. What was the problem with her trying again from the sand? She will not be in THAT sand again that day, might never have that same lie again, would hardly learn anything not already known by her, and most importantly to me, her practice shot after the hole finished had no bearing on her score.

If a player commits a foul which affects her score, (e.g. kick the ball out of a divot), yes call that out.  But if her actions have no effect on the ball in play, I'm gonna keep quiet.  Personally, i don't like being a policeman.

 

 

 

Did she post the score? Who was her marker?

 

IMO everyone is responsible to protect the field. She was in breach of a Rule and should have added the penalties in her score. Most types of practicing are forbidden during the round for a very good reason.

[Augster]

You should probably have brought this up to the committee after the round.

 

Because it didn’t get brought up at all, everyone in that group should be DQ for not protecting the field. If the tourney is over, anyone in that group that received a prize of any sort should seek out the rightful winners of those prizes and give the prize over to them. 

 

 

[david.c.w]

Deleted.  Commented then realized I am an idiot.

Edited January 4, 2022 by david.c.w

[ArtMBgolf]

OP are you saying that your were waiting on the next tee, but nobody was 
waiting for your group while she practiced?   
  
The reason for the no practice rule is that while it doesn't affect that hole's
score, it can help the player be more comfortable on future similar shots.  
  
If this is a friendly foursome, family event, friends, you don't need to call 
her for a penalty, but you should nicely mention it.  Of course if this was 
a serious club event, you should stop her from doing it the rest of the round.   

[huskydawg]

Why be afraid to make the correct ruling?  Just say it's nothing personal and she's always welcome to ask before doing something.

[davep043]

13 hours ago, jobin said:

But she also, twice, after the hole completed, play a ball from a greenside bunker.  She had been in that bunker and hit out poorly so, just like a greenside practice chip shot, she took a 2nd try at the situation.

In my mind, its your responsibility to inform her of the rule after the very first instance.  In that way, the potential for penalties is minimized to just a single hole.  Separately, if the player has already had problems in that bunker, and its a Stableford competition, she may have already reached the score which would result in Zero points.  Unfortunately, this penalty gets applied to the NEXT hole.

 

13 hours ago, jobin said:

But if her actions have no effect on the ball in play, I'm gonna keep quiet.

I don't know about you, but I do my best to play by ALL the rules, and I expect all of the other players to do the same.  

[Mr. Bean]

13 hours ago, jobin said:

With no penalty she could have practiced from the sand anytime, if no ball. She practiced her chipping and putting next to/on the green, with the ball. What was the problem with her trying again from the sand? She will not be in THAT sand again that day, might never have that same lie again, would hardly learn anything not already known by her, and most importantly to me, her practice shot after the hole finished had no bearing on her score.

If a player commits a foul which affects her score, (e.g. kick the ball out of a divot), yes call that out.  

 

So, you say that practising is of no use because there is a chance that the lie and sand MIGHT be different and that one already knows everything there is to know? Then tell me, why people practise in the first place if it does not help in playing better i.e. improving the score?

[2bGood]

A bit of a side idea. This was a stableford competition. If you are already at 0 points for the hole, is there a penalty for practicing? (assume you don't hole out before you take additional shots)

[antip]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

A bit of a side idea. This was a stableford competition. If you are already at 0 points for the hole, is there a penalty for practicing? (assume you don't hole out before you take additional shots)

There are rulings in this space. Continuing to play your ball towards the hole is not practice. Drop unrelated balls and hit 'em and you are practising between holes, a breach of 5.5 unless the 5.5b Exception applies.

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, antip said:

There are rulings in this space. Continuing to play your ball towards the hole is not practice. Drop unrelated balls and hit 'em and you are practising between holes, a breach of 5.5 unless the 5.5b Exception applies.

 

Exactly. Otherwise one could always say 'I am using S&D and drop a ball here in the bunker and play from here with the penalties which do not affect my score as I have no points from this hole anyway'.

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Exactly. Otherwise one could always say 'I am using S&D and drop a ball here in the bunker and play from here with the penalties which do not affect my score as I have no points from this hole anyway'.

 

4 hours ago, antip said:

There are rulings in this space. Continuing to play your ball towards the hole is not practice. Drop unrelated balls and hit 'em and you are practising between holes, a breach of 5.5 unless the 5.5b Exception applies.

Interesting and not surprising. If you hit a bad bunker shot (into a potentially worse situation), I assume you could still opt to take a stroke and distance penalty?

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

 

Interesting and not surprising. If you hit a bad bunker shot (into a potentially worse situation), I assume you could still opt to take a stroke and distance penalty?

 Sure, but then you are continuing the hole. Practising is an entirely different animal and not hard to distinguish from actual and honest play of golf trying to get the ball into the hole.

[slocagolfer]

One of the best ways to confront someone came from someone posting on this forum (I believe): "The rules say..." 

[2bGood]

8 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Sure, but then you are continuing the hole. Practising is an entirely different animal and not hard to distinguish from actual and honest play of golf trying to get the ball into the hole.

Generally yes, and I can't imagine ever having to deal with this issue, but I enjoy a hypothetical dialogue that takes us to the fringes of the rules.

 

I could see a player, blading a ball out of the bunker over the green.  I would assume most players trying to shoot their lowest score would leave the bunker and play a chip back on to the green (in fear of hitting the same poor shot twice). However if a player was at or near 0 stableford points I could see some of these players try second shot out of the bunker. I think it would be hard to distinguish in this situation. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by 2bGood

[dlygrisse]

In match play you can practice after you complete the hole correct?  Stableford would be considered stroke play though I assume?  

 

If this were a friendly sort of club match, I would pull her aside and say "hey just so you know....."

[Mr. Bean]

36 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Generally yes, and I can't imagine ever having to deal with this issue, but I enjoy a hypothetical dialogue that takes us to the fringes of the rules.

 

I could see a player, blading a ball out of the bunker over the green.  I would assume most players trying to shoot their lowest score would leave the bunker and play a chip back on to the green (in fear of hitting the same poor shot twice). However if a player was at or near 0 stableford points I could some some of these players try second shot out of the bunker. I think it would be hard to distinguish in this situation. 

 

You are correct, sometimes it may be difficult but golf is based on integrity 🧐

[davep043]

54 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

In match play you can practice after you complete the hole correct?  Stableford would be considered stroke play though I assume?  

 

If this were a friendly sort of club match, I would pull her aside and say "hey just so you know....."

You can practice in limited ways between the play of holes in both match play and stroke play.  One of the limits is that you may not hit practice shots from a bunker.  See the Exception to 5.5b.

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You are correct, sometimes it may be difficult but golf is based on integrity 🧐

True..... heading down the rabbit hole now, feel free not encourage me. 

 

Even when I golfing to shoot my best score, I select some shots to 'practice' them during the course of play rather than what the best shot for that situation or hole is. The idea is overall for the round hitting the 'practice' shot will assist me shoot an overall better score. The easiest example I can give is my home course has a long par five that is followed by a long tight par 3 early in the round. On my second shot on the par 5 I will typically select the club I plan to hit off the tee on the par 3 hole that follows. I don't choose the best club to layup with on the par 5, but rather the club I am hitting on the next hole as way to get low risk swing in with that club - call it a 'practice' shot with consequences. Doing this puts me within wedge distance, but not my ideal wedge distance. Basically I take a small risk of not shooting my best score on the par 5 for a much larger reward of feeling confident on my tee shot on the tight par 3 (potential blow up hole) that follows. 

 

So let say I put a few OB on the tee on that par five I just described and now I am looking at 0 stableford points. If my club selection was about practicing clubs I wanted to hit as I described above in effort to shoot my best score for the round with the risk of reducing my chances of shooting my best score that hole - have a broken the rules???

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

So let say I put a few OB on the tee on that par five I just described and now I am looking at 0 stableford points. If my club selection was about practicing clubs I wanted to hit as I described above in effort to shoot my best score for the round with the risk of reducing my chances of shooting my best score that hole - have a broken the rules???

 You tell me, you're the one who should know 😉

 

P.S. As you are from the US you are definitively in breach of the handicap rules for not trying to achieve your best score so you are not allowed to post that score. Afa Rules of Golf are concerned you need to look in the mirror and tell yourself what you see...

 

P.P.S. Why would you want to hit a couple of balls OB if you are trying to make a good score..? Makes no sense to me.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[2bGood]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 You tell me, you're the one who should know 😉

 

P.S. As you are from the US you are definitively in breach of the handicap rules for not trying to achieve your best score so you are not allowed to post that score. Afa Rules of Golf are concerned you need to look in the mirror and tell yourself what you see...

 

P.P.S. Why would you want to hit a couple of balls OB if you are trying to make a good score..? Makes no sense to me.

 

 

You don't have to make personal attacks. 😉 No offence to the Americans but I am proud member of the commonwealth. 

[StudentGolfer4]

5 hours ago, davep043 said:

You can practice in limited ways between the play of holes in both match play and stroke play.  One of the limits is that you may not hit practice shots from a bunker.  See the Exception to 5.5b.

Dave, you clearly know the rule. Is this the case out of all hazards or bunkers specifically? Is the rule the same for both stroke and match play?

[antip]

3 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Dave, you clearly know the rule. Is this the case out of all hazards or bunkers specifically? Is the rule the same for both stroke and match play?

"Hazards" no longer has any golf rules meaning. The proscription is specifically bunkers. There is nothing preventing a practice stroke between holes from a penalty area providing it meets the conditions stated in the Exception to 5.5b. Should you wish to understand more fully.....

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-5.html

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, 2bGood said:

You don't have to make personal attacks. 😉 No offence to the Americans but I am proud member of the commonwealth. 

 

I beg your pardon, Sir !

[antip]

7 hours ago, 2bGood said:

True..... heading down the rabbit hole now, feel free not encourage me. 

 

Even when I golfing to shoot my best score, I select some shots to 'practice' them during the course of play rather than what the best shot for that situation or hole is. The idea is overall for the round hitting the 'practice' shot will assist me shoot an overall better score. The easiest example I can give is my home course has a long par five that is followed by a long tight par 3 early in the round. On my second shot on the par 5 I will typically select the club I plan to hit off the tee on the par 3 hole that follows. I don't choose the best club to layup with on the par 5, but rather the club I am hitting on the next hole as way to get low risk swing in with that club - call it a 'practice' shot with consequences. Doing this puts me within wedge distance, but not my ideal wedge distance. Basically I take a small risk of not shooting my best score on the par 5 for a much larger reward of feeling confident on my tee shot on the tight par 3 (potential blow up hole) that follows. 

 

So let say I put a few OB on the tee on that par five I just described and now I am looking at 0 stableford points. If my club selection was about practicing clubs I wanted to hit as I described above in effort to shoot my best score for the round with the risk of reducing my chances of shooting my best score that hole - have a broken the rules???

Subject to the qualification discussed earlier (which I characterise as no screwing around doing frivolous things other than completing play on a hole already "completed" in the competition score sense), you are free to determine tactically how you play the whole course. So for example, if there is a juicy hole in one prize for the wedge length par 3 18th hole, you are free to use only your wedge for the first 17 holes. Nothing in the rules prevents that, even if there are handicapping system complications.

[StudentGolfer4]

4 hours ago, antip said:

"Hazards" no longer has any golf rules meaning. The proscription is specifically bunkers. There is nothing preventing a practice stroke between holes from a penalty area providing it meets the conditions stated in the Exception to 5.5b. Should you wish to understand more fully.....

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-5.html

Thank you. 
 

So by understanding, if there are no bunkers on the course and everything is considered a waste area, like say Pinehurst, she would be ok in practicing from one post hole? 

 

Hazard has been replaced by “penalty area”, correct? Or I’m guessing it’s nit that straight forward?

[antip]

1 minute ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Thank you. 
 

So by understanding, if there are no bunkers on the course and everything is considered a waste area, like say Pinehurst, she would be ok in practicing from one post hole? 

 

Hazard has been replaced by “penalty area”, correct? Or I’m guessing it’s nit that straight forward?

If there are no bunkers then that aspect of the 5.5b Exception to practicing between holes would not apply, only the other stated restrictions are relevant.

"Hazards" used to include water hazards and bunkers. Now there are separate and altered rules treatment for penalty areas (which are defined by the Committee at each club and can be wider than just water features) and bunkers.

[davep043]

32 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Thank you. 
 

So by understanding, if there are no bunkers on the course and everything is considered a waste area, like say Pinehurst, she would be ok in practicing from one post hole? 

 

The Rule says you may practice putting or chipping on or near the green of the hole just completed, or the teeing area of the next hole.  I've been to Pinehurst a few times, those waste areas generally aren't what I'd call near the greens, there's usually fairway-cut grass for 10 yards or more in all directions.  You might legitimately practice chipping from the sandy natural areas onto the next tee in some spots.  There's not a specific definition, and if you're there on vacation you can probably get away with a lot, but if you're in a legitimate competition you should be pretty careful of how far you push the limits.  On the other hand, the "short game" practice area must cover 20 acres, you're better off preparing there rather than on the course.