2022 Course Conditions - Phoenix Area

[AzSuperHack76]

Toka Sticks, no tee times anywhere, so our group ended up there yesterday. I think this was on  @Argonne69’s best of the worst play list. 
 

Well, it was an “interesting” mix of holes with below average conditioning. Greens were sluggish. Fairways had good grass, rough was, well rough. Sand traps were above average, so that’s good. 

If I had to compare it to a course in the west side I’d say Great Eagle/Az Traditions. It’s not terrible but it isn’t good. 
 

Pace was great, 4 hours exactly on a Sunday morning. 
 

$70 for a tee time and bucket of balls. About $30 overpriced for the winter. 
 

Got it checked off as played, no reason to ever make the drive from the other side of town. 

 

[AzSuperHack76]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:53 PM, AzSuperHack76 said:

Wigwam Gold is in near perfect shape. Greens are the best I’ve seen out there in some time. 

Same report but the greens are even better than last time. Near perfect last time, perfect this time. Gold is really dialed in right now. 

[avguy]

I played during the low rates of the summer often @ Toka in my recent past.  Good to see this update which confirms some of what I found since the last time I got on there maybe 2 years back.   Just overpriced for what it is.

 

I believe Troon manages it....The rates went up from just 3-4 years back but the course conditions never did proportionately.  And for me, I hated their funky carts inside rule with a 3PM curfew.  I'm good in all our heat, and don't have the need to get on courses at sunrise - so their tee times got compressed into AM with no twilite rates. 

 

I could not justify buying their "Toka" card and just playing there despite it only a 20 min. drive for me (Max distance I go for golf!).

[vandyfan]

We will be there in two weeks playing Talking Stick, Raven, and both We-ko-Pa courses. Any idea how tight the fairways typically play? I guess my question is in the spring do most people prefer low, mid or high bounce wedges out there? Coming from TN where it is typically pretty soggy most of the year I am used to playing fairly high bounce most of the time. 

[puttnforthe8]

1 hour ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

We will be there in two weeks playing Talking Stick, Raven, and both We-ko-Pa courses. Any idea how tight the fairways typically play? I guess my question is in the spring do most people prefer low, mid or high bounce wedges out there? Coming from TN where it is typically pretty soggy most of the year I am used to playing fairly high bounce most of the time. 

One of each - you get all types of lies here.  I play 60-04; 54-12; 50-08

[Bonneville85308]

2 hours ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

We will be there in two weeks playing Talking Stick, Raven, and both We-ko-Pa courses. Any idea how tight the fairways typically play? I guess my question is in the spring do most people prefer low, mid or high bounce wedges out there? Coming from TN where it is typically pretty soggy most of the year I am used to playing fairly high bounce most of the time. 

 

It's hard for me to provide a one-size-fits-all answer to this question. It can depend on the time of year, the maintenance practices of the course, etc. 

 

I moved here from a climate more like TN, where I had zero use for a low-bounce wedge ever. The turf was typically soft and bunkers were typically fluffy. However, I quickly found I absolutely needed at least one low-bounce wedge in AZ. The last few weeks going into overseed, courses tend to be dried out, cut tight, and firm, so low bounce is needed. Right after overseed, and before the rough goes dormant, everything is pretty soggy and lush, so a higher bounce might be best. Around this time of year (late winter), the courses I frequent tend to be playing firm, some tight fairway lies in high traffic areas around the greens, and the dormant rough is often completely matted down by carts at this point approaching the greens. In the summer, the bermuda grass thrives and is heavily watered overnight, so you get a lot of soft, lush lies. And to make things more complicated, you get varying levels of bunker maintenance from course to course, but I find that most courses around here except the very high end ones tend to have very firm/thin bunkers where I find a high bounce wedge to be useless. 

 

Shorter answer, I own wedges of varying bounce levels and vary what I carry in the bag depending on when and where I am playing, but you should probably bring at least one low bounce wedge if you are coming this month. My experience has been that lies tend to be firm/tight in March, the overseed is starting getting worn down from heavy traffic but it's not hot enough that they are putting a lot of water on it yet, and the dormant rough at most courses will be very firm/tight. This is in general and not specific to the courses you listed, as frankly, I cannot afford those courses this time of year.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

500 club this weekend, decent shape, greens are rolling true but are slightly on the slower side. 4.5 hour pace of play with a tournament. 

 

Sun City West Pebblebrook, great shape, greens are some of the best conditioned greens I have seen at a SCW course. True and fast. Pin placements were a bit tough today, especially for a senior community. Bunkers leave something to be desired though, looks as though they recently got new sand, just way too much sand and too inconsistent. 4 hours teeing of this morning around nine, despite the group in front of us struggling to get putts to the hole with the crazy placements. 

[DrSchteeve]

58+ degree lob wedge with < 8 degrees of bounce

 

practice before rounds in greenside bunkers, if available, technique keeps face square(ish) and steeper stroke

[vandyfan]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:17 PM, DrSchteeve said:

58+ degree lob wedge with < 8 degrees of bounce

 

practice before rounds in greenside bunkers, if available, technique keeps face square(ish) and steeper stroke

 

Perfect. Thank you. I have a 6 degree 60* wedge that I keep for such conditions and I also have a 10 degree 58*. Luckily I currently only carry 13 clubs so I can bring them both. 

[Bonneville85308]

Bellair early this morning. They did a nice job of quickly bringing this little course back from the dead last fall. Good fairway overseed job for this caliber of course. All greens were in excellent condition and were the most impressive part. Speed was appropriate for the contours and typical clientele. Bunkers were pretty firm/thin but playable. Lots of tee boxes in need of leveling but the grass coverage was good. The far boundaries of the dormant rough, the fencing surrounding the course, and the neighboring townhouses all look like garbage, but whatever. A bunch of dead/dying trees were ribboned for removal.

 

They have only one set of tee markers now, seemed like many of them were moved forward on the boxes so I think the course played a bit shorter than the yardage on the card.

 

Pro shop, bathrooms, parking lot, cart staging area, driving range tee area have all been nicely remodeled. They flipped the nines so you start on the old #10 across the street.

 

Pace 2:35 for 18 holes (par 59) behind a few other groups. ~ $32 + tax to walk. Fun layout, I'll be back. It was nice to see so many younger people (< age 35) out on the course this morning compared to other courses I play, although a shame that all of them were riding.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[cbbaron]

Have April 2-7 booked keep the reviews coming. I have a Grayhawk WT card if anyone wants to meet up

[chisag]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:52 PM, Double K said:

Beauty day at Aguila. I can't imagine there being a better Muni in the state. It's such a good course, great variety of holes and really puts your game to the test. 

 

Course is immaculate tee to green. Fairways are lush and firm, with a decent amount of roll out. Greens were quite receptive to the point I'd call them soft, extremely smooth, with the exception of 13, and decently speedy. Bunkers, and I was in most, if not all of them, were exceptional, nice sand that was packed nicely, giving good lies. We were off the course in just over 4 hours. 

 

 

... Summer really spoils you. As someone earlier said prices are insane right now. Since I play 5 days a week usually Mon -Fri I am almost exclusively playing Aguila because at $24 to walk with my remote cart, nobody comes "remotely" close. I still marvel at the views every time I play. Bought a house about 7 minutes away so I save on gas as well. 

... Rounds have become 4:30-5 hours and first or 2nd twilite time just finishes on sone days. While I can't complain about the greens they are far from smooth and as a die putter I struggle because the ball tends to wander as it loses speed, especially downhill. A more aggressive putter has a better chance. But again for $24 and a free round after every 10 rounds I get 2 free rounds a month but looking forward to summer when I can play other courses again without taking out a second mortgage! 

[AzSuperHack76]

Sun City West Deer Valley, man the maintenance crews in Sun City West have their courses dialed in. Greens are near perfect. Course itself is in amazing condition. Only complaint is a little too much sand in the bunkers, especially the fairway bunkers. Teed off around 7am yesterday. Zipped around in 2 hours and 40 minutes. 
 

 

[AZ_JHWK]

GCU today. Overseed is holding up nicely. Greens are really good. Anything off of the fairway is super tight. Lots of cart traffic equals lots of worn-out dormant grass. Played in about 4:10 from a 9:20 tee time. Nice bargain if you have the City Card. House across the street from the 3rd green has a rooster crowing about every 30 seconds. You just don't get that at every course. Loved it. 🙂

[MUNIGRIT]

Played Papago today. Pretty good shape but the greens seem to be on the verge of being dead. They look like Eagle Mountains did right before they totally died out. No ball marks being left, brown/spots of different green grass and they look to be sanded a week ago. I would think with the coin they have they are just prepping for something but I dont know. Played pretty tough but was fun. 

[azgolfer44]

28 minutes ago, MUNIGRIT said:

Played Papago today. Pretty good shape but the greens seem to be on the verge of being dead. They look like Eagle Mountains did right before they totally died out. No ball marks being left, brown/spots of different green grass and they look to be sanded a week ago. I would think with the coin they have they are just prepping for something but I dont know. Played pretty tough but was fun. 

 

I played Papago on Saturday and noticed the same thing.  It appears they dialed back the overseeding on the greens this year, which made them great so far this winter, but they appear stressed now.  They put a pretty heavy top dressing on them last week to hopefully get them in better shape for the upcoming ASU men's and women's tournaments.  They seems to putt okay, but I though the speed was very inconsistent.   They top-dressed the practice green a couple weeks ago and it is is great now, so let's hope the same thing happens with the course's greens.

 

I also noticed a few areas where they patched in some new grass on the greens.  Certainly interesting for this time of year to be doing that.

[jatrain]

Papago on Sunday for me.  I echo what has been said about the greens.  Worst I’ve seen them in a long time, same with the bunkers.  Crusty and hard.  
 

I do think they have to decide what they want to be.  Even with the greens/bunkers I’m happy to pay the $45 to walk.  The guys I was paired with were less than thrilled with the conditions for $170.  I think that at price its “rough around the edges” charm wears off.

 

 

[vandyfan]

Played Talking Stick Piipaash, We-ko-pa Cholla and Saguaro and Raven Club this past weekend. Coming from Nashville, I thought all the courses were in good shape. Talking Stick was mega firm, especially the fairways, as tee shots would land in the fairway and then bounce 10 ft in the air. Also, of the 4, Talking Stick also had the fastest greens. My main gripe would be there were some very bad (unpinnable) locations used for pins out there. There were at least two pins that were literally on a downslope in the false front. Other than that, fairly easy course but we found the greens difficult to hold if you were short sided. Bunkers were fairly inconsistent.

 

We-ko-pa was in excellent shape and I have no real complaints about it. Greens were normal speeds and overall both We-ko-pa courses played significantly less firm than TS.

 

Raven was the surprise of the trip. Good conditions, a few extra ball marks on the greens but nothing bad. Bunkers weren't bad. Not a desert course but I found it to be the most forgiving of the 4 that we played. I found it to be the most fun in many ways because you could swing away on a lot of the holes.  

[MUNIGRIT]

13 hours ago, jatrain said:

Papago on Sunday for me.  I echo what has been said about the greens.  Worst I’ve seen them in a long time, same with the bunkers.  Crusty and hard.  
 

I do think they have to decide what they want to be.  Even with the greens/bunkers I’m happy to pay the $45 to walk.  The guys I was paired with were less than thrilled with the conditions for $170.  I think that at price its “rough around the edges” charm wears off.

 

 

Papago is a total rip off without the city card. It is worth it to buy it on the spot if you hadn't when you show up.

[AzSuperHack76]

Bellair Golf Park. First time since the rehab/makeover. I've heard positive reports from the few reviews on here. I grew up in Glendale and played it often as a kid, spent most of our summer days there or at Glenn Lakes. Condition wise it is better than I ever remember it, it has been at least 10-15 years since I have played it. Compared to other courses it's still a bit of a goat track, it is what it is.

 

Pace was awful, 2 hour front on a par 59, 3400 yard course is brutal. The back sped up a tiny bit, 1.5 hours. We were the first tee time out in front of their Wed. money game, they were at least 2-3 holes behind us when we finished, I couldn't imagine playing behind that group. 

 

$32 is an appropriate green fee for the course, probably the biggest reason it is so crowded. 

 

The big positive is the range is updated with what I would call "cabana's" and top tracer, nice little food truck there as well. 

 

No reason to play the course again, nostalgia only goes so far... With that being said, I defiantly would go back to use the range and enjoy the food and hangout with friends. 

[Bonneville85308]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:52 AM, AzSuperHack76 said:

Sun City West Deer Valley, man the maintenance crews in Sun City West have their courses dialed in. Greens are near perfect. Course itself is in amazing condition. Only complaint is a little too much sand in the bunkers, especially the fairway bunkers. Teed off around 7am yesterday. Zipped around in 2 hours and 40 minutes. 
 

 

 

I played SCW Echo Mesa last weekend for the first time, exec course about 4,200 yards from the tips including 2 par 3's that play over 210 yards. Conditions were darn near perfect, and it was a fun layout. Normally I'd say $51 is kinda pricey to walk a short course in the west valley, but it was worth it for the conditions and the fast pace.

[AzSuperHack76]

1 minute ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

I played SCW Echo Mesa last weekend for the first time, exec course about 4,200 yards from the tips including 2 par 3's that play over 210 yards. Conditions were darn near perfect, and it was a fun layout. Normally I'd say $51 is kinda pricey to walk a short course in the west valley, but it was worth it for the conditions and the fast pace.

They really are all in excellent shape. I have not played any of the executives yet, the walking rate on the regulation courses is only $55. I think what helps them not being overcrowded is that they aren't on the any of the booking sites. 

[chisag]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:02 AM, blackbdmillsaps said:

Raven was the surprise of the trip. Good conditions, a few extra ball marks on the greens but nothing bad. Bunkers weren't bad. Not a desert course but I found it to be the most forgiving of the 4 that we played. I found it to be the most fun in many ways because you could swing away on a lot of the holes.  

 

 

... Raven is my summer hideout. The abundance of trees are very welcome in the 110* heat and above and I love the layout. Silly winter prices of course but in the summer I consider it a bargain. 

[Bonneville85308]

20 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

They really are all in excellent shape. I have not played any of the executives yet, the walking rate on the regulation courses is only $55. I think what helps them not being overcrowded is that they aren't on the any of the booking sites. 

Right, and I don't even like posting about them here, given how many eyeballs this site gets. SCW stopped putting times on teeoff.com around when Covid hit and hasn't gone back to it, thankfully.

[AzSuperHack76]

4 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Right, and I don't even like posting about them here, given how many eyeballs this site gets. SCW stopped putting times on teeoff.com around when Covid hit and hasn't gone back to it, thankfully.

Good call, mums the word from here on out! 

[azgolfer44]

I played Grayhawk Raptor yesterday.  If you really want to nitpick, the greens were a tad too slow for my liking and there was some extra water on the course, likely due to the higher than normal temperatures, but overall the course was fantastic.  7:30 tee time and finished just under 4 hours with very little waiting.  The new holes (15-17) are really starting to grow on me, although I do miss the old 16.  It seems like Grayhawk has stepped up everything in the last 3-4 years, likely due to the NCAA gig.

 

I get the price tag is very high, but for that area of town and the type of visitor they are seeking, it is about in line from my perspective.  DC Ranch, which in my opinion is not as nice as Raptor, is almost $400k just to join, let alone monthly dues.  Many of the best travel destinations are at or above $400 right now.  If I was travelling from somewhere where the ground was frozen, I don't think I would regret splurging on a round there this time of year.

 

 

[teejaywhy]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:15 AM, Bonneville85308 said:

 

I played SCW Echo Mesa last weekend for the first time, exec course about 4,200 yards from the tips including 2 par 3's that play over 210 yards...

That's a head scratcher.

[cbbaron]

7 hours ago, azgolfer44 said:

I played Grayhawk Raptor yesterday.  If you really want to nitpick, the greens were a tad too slow for my liking and there was some extra water on the course, likely due to the higher than normal temperatures, but overall the course was fantastic.  7:30 tee time and finished just under 4 hours with very little waiting.  The new holes (15-17) are really starting to grow on me, although I do miss the old 16.  It seems like Grayhawk has stepped up everything in the last 3-4 years, likely due to the NCAA gig.

 

I get the price tag is very high, but for that area of town and the type of visitor they are seeking, it is about in line from my perspective.  DC Ranch, which in my opinion is not as nice as Raptor, is almost $400k just to join, let alone monthly dues.  Many of the best travel destinations are at or above $400 right now.  If I was travelling from somewhere where the ground was frozen, I don't think I would regret splurging on a round there this time of year.

 

 

Plus Grayhawk has great customer service and vibe. I come out to the area 2-3 times a year have had a WT card since 09 and I will out there next week really looking forward to it. Seems though my WeKoPass is useless now very difficult to get times there

[azgolfer44]

1 hour ago, cbbaron said:

Plus Grayhawk has great customer service and vibe. I come out to the area 2-3 times a year have had a WT card since 09 and I will out there next week really looking forward to it. Seems though my WeKoPass is useless now very difficult to get times there

I used to buy WKP pass every year but you’re right, tee times are very tough 4 days out unless you have a lot of flexibility or can play mostly weekdays. 

[AzSuperHack76]

Aguila this past Friday with @fore_life, course is in great shape, greens were great, great pace of play and great company. 
 

GCU today, course is in decent shape. Greens were sanded recently and a little inconsistent. Course was pretty much wide open with the threat of bad weather so great pace.