Cabot Citrus Farms

[jvincent]

Just saw on Twitter that the Keiser's have acquired World Woods and are renovating/rebranding it as Cabot Citrus Farms.

 

For those that have played World Woods before, any comments?

Edited January 10, 2022 by jvincent

[sunbeltgolfer]

It's been a few years since my last round at World Woods. Pine Barrens was in fairly good condition. Rolling Oaks needed a lot of TLC. I would be pleased if they were to go in, make improvements and bring the courses back to their potential. Certainly, they have the track record to do it and I hope they do. It would be nice to see a lodge or some type of accomodations for those of us that travel down that way looking for an escape from Winter weather. I will be following this with interest.

Edited January 10, 2022 by sunbeltgolfer

[vallygolf]

This makes total sense to me.  Looking at the aerial photos there is tons of land available there if further development of other courses was desired.  Im curious if anybody knows anything about the defunct golf course just to the west of world woods.  It looks like it was built on sand dunes.  It would make a ton of sense if Keiser was eyeing that property as well to put another course/courses

[jerebear21]

what a great time to be alive in central florida. We lost sugar loaf but now gain this. 

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/world-woods-cabot-citrus-farms

[mci711]

Pine Barrens is awesome, haven't played the other course. I had a blast there when I went. It was also one of the best deals in the country - top 100 I think I paid like $70 bucks when I played. Only public course worth playing in the area that isn't at Streamsong. 

 

Everything Keiser touches turns to gold, so I can only see this being a great thing. 

[golfnhack]

As someone that has played World Woods twice a year, every year, for the last 15 years... all I can say it hallelujah. The course has been in a very steady decline over at least the last 10 years. This year when we played it, it was in the worst condition we had ever seen it. We were supposed to play Thanksgiving weekend (which we have every year), but cancelled because we heard conditions were not good at all. It wasn't worth the 2 hour drive from Orlando. I love both courses. I would take just having good conditions again. I hope they don't mess up the courses with the re-design.

Edited January 10, 2022 by golfnhack

[Dancin]

Keiser is not involved in this. While Mike is a minority partner in the Canadian operation, he passed on getting directly into this due to housing being built around it.

[TM_HOYER]

3 hours ago, vallygolf said:

This makes total sense to me.  Looking at the aerial photos there is tons of land available there if further development of other courses was desired.  Im curious if anybody knows anything about the defunct golf course just to the west of world woods.  It looks like it was built on sand dunes.  It would make a ton of sense if Keiser was eyeing that property as well to put another course/courses

The abandoned course to the west is Dunes Golf Club at Seville. Based on news stories, it closed in 2013 and on Google Maps looks like it was part of a failed real estate community.

[sunbeltgolfer]

4 hours ago, Dancin said:

Keiser is not involved in this. While Mike is a minority partner in the Canadian operation, he passed on getting directly into this due to housing being built around it.

I read that real estate devolpment was part of the plan. It wasn't clear on how much or where, but would include shopping also. It would be a shame to build house up against the courses, but I guess tha's how developers make money.

[StudentGolfer4]

I’m all for them improving the courses and they definitely should be taken care of better. My concern is what the new prices will be. If I had to guess they will be up there with Sand Valley, Streamsong, Bandon, etc. 

 

Very very few Florida courses with decent architecture. Even less that are public, and even fewer that are affordable. I feel like this project will cross another course or two off of that affordable public list with good architecture. 

[GolfCarl]

I haven't played Rolling Oaks but Pine Barrens is awesome.  Played it 4 or 5 times now.  What was really great about World Woods was that it was top quality golf for a fair price without a hint of pretentiousness.  Sure PB has gone downhill a little bit conditioning wise but it was still good last year.  Count me is as someone who would like to see the Fazio design restored not remodeled.  World Woods was an affordable alternative to Streamsong for the middle class.  I hope that the price points remain attainable.

[TM_HOYER]

There is already a very highly regarded private course close by, Black Diamond Ranch Quarry Course. Based on the news stories, it appears that have not fully decided what they are going to do other than improve what is there. It will be interesting to see what market level they go for and what they do. They still have the issue that World Woods has been battling since it opened. It is just far enough from everything that people have to think and plan to get there. It is not an easy, quick drive from Orlando, The Villages, or Ocala. The Suncoast Tollway makes it an easy drive from the Tampa airport but right now, there is no play to stay.

[ND2005]

10 hours ago, TM_HOYER said:

There is already a very highly regarded private course close by, Black Diamond Ranch Quarry Course. Based on the news stories, it appears that have not fully decided what they are going to do other than improve what is there. It will be interesting to see what market level they go for and what they do. They still have the issue that World Woods has been battling since it opened. It is just far enough from everything that people have to think and plan to get there. It is not an easy, quick drive from Orlando, The Villages, or Ocala. The Suncoast Tollway makes it an easy drive from the Tampa airport but right now, there is no play to stay.

 

Since the time World Woods was originally built, the "if you build it, they will come" model has been proven successful by Keiser and the Cabot group and others. Bandon, Sand Valley, Streamsong - all in the middle of nowhere. 

 

The key is you need an all in experience with high quality lodging/F&B/etc which is what was always lacking.  

 

[TM_HOYER]

1 hour ago, ND2005 said:

 

Since the time World Woods was originally built, the "if you build it, they will come" model has been proven successful by Keiser and the Cabot group and others. Bandon, Sand Valley, Streamsong - all in the middle of nowhere. 

 

The key is you need an all in experience with high quality lodging/F&B/etc which is what was always lacking.  

 

World Woods may have started in the middle of nowhere but that is not the case now. There are a lot of 55+ communities within a short drive, many with a golf course. I think the new owners are doing the right thing, taking their time to figure what to do and then close it for 18 months to get it built. The previous owners created a place to play with outstanding courses but did not put things in place to make it a destination.

[jvincent]

20 hours ago, Dancin said:

Keiser is not involved in this. While Mike is a minority partner in the Canadian operation, he passed on getting directly into this due to housing being built around it.

 

Curious what exactly the partnership arrangement is. If Keiser is a partner in the Cabot brand then I would think he has some kind of stake in this. Especially since Bandon, Cabot, and Sandvalley are all grouped as part of the Dream Golf brand.

 

Either way, this would be the least "out of the way" property in the portfolio since it's only an hour from TPA.

 

I'm curious who they'll tag for the renovation / restoration.

[Dancin]

Minority partner. Ben is the decider/driver for Cabot deals.

[mattchen8]

I've played both courses, Pine Barrens being a better course.  I always looked forward to playing it when I was in town to meet with clients and would usually bring my clients out there.  It's a very interesting place and could be very special with the right owners.  I agree with others who said about the need to add accommodations and make it a destination.  It has the bones with a great range, plenty of practice greens, two courses, and a short course.  I am very excited about what they could do with this.

[golfnhack]

15 hours ago, TM_HOYER said:

World Woods may have started in the middle of nowhere but that is not the case now. There are a lot of 55+ communities within a short drive, many with a golf course. I think the new owners are doing the right thing, taking their time to figure what to do and then close it for 18 months to get it built. The previous owners created a place to play with outstanding courses but did not put things in place to make it a destination.

Yes.... but I am sorry. The towns and areas surrounding World Woods are literal Sh*t holes. This is not like Black Diamond Ranch where there is a pretty nice town very close by.

 

If they plan on building homes on World Woods property, I would love to know the builder/developer. Hopefully they are listed on the stock exchange because I would short the crap out of their stock.

[golfnhack]

I would compare World Woods to Streamsong location wise. NOTHING around the golf courses, and adding housing developments to them would result in instant bankruptcy for the developer. I mean... when I say there is NOTHING around those courses... I am not kidding. You can't even get cell reception at Streamsong.

[jerebear21]

streamsong doesn’t have a major toll road leading to it directly from tampa international like world woods does. It may be similar in mileage but location wise world woods is in such a better spot than streamsong will ever be. 
 

I said the same thing about Bradenton and Wesley chapel area 10 years ago and now it’s one of the busiest towns on the outskirts of tampa. Lutz, Odessa, spring hills. All are booming. The growth is wild here in tampa bay. Maybe the well runs dry one day. Who knows. Southern hills is close by to world woods and that place is thriving. 

[srs06d]

7 hours ago, golfnhack said:

This is not like Black Diamond Ranch where there is a pretty nice town very close by.

Out of curiosity, what town are you referring to? 

[Smooth spin scott]

Being from Canada it was awesome to be able to play Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs the first few years for around $150CDN + caddie.  Welcome to the $300CDN + caddie range now, obviously due to all of the accolades, but I suspect the same might happen to World Woods after they make changes to the courses, add a clubhouse etc.  Friend has a condo in Clearwater and we play WW every year....I will assume we can say goodbye to the $70 green fees.

[jschwarb]

Thrilled to hear about this. Not many people can say they drove past World Woods every day from home to work, but I did for a couple years. This was 15-plus years ago, I'd often hit balls or play the par-3 course before work and played both courses many, many times. World Woods was very much the rural Florida darling before Streamsong. It just wasn't a resort by any stretch, the clubhouse was tiny and the nearest lodging would have been low-end hotels. No idea how the area is now but I can't imagine it's grown too much. There's a landfill not far from there, among other industrial areas.

 

And, wow, haven't thought about the Dunes at Seville in a long time but that was a pretty darned good course. El Diablo was another course up in that area that was very good and had some acclaim but didn't survive.

[golfnhack]

16 hours ago, srs06d said:

Out of curiosity, what town are you referring to? 

Lecanto

 

And let me rephrase....

 

"a pretty nice town nearby.. compared to what world woods has near by"

Edited January 13, 2022 by golfnhack
changed

[Billdozer324]

World woods was always one of my favorite courses I got to play during junior events, this is 15+ years ago. Sad to hear it hasn't been maintained as it could have been, the facility was always so nice to go to for events compared to some other locations. 

[pro6604]

Both courses were in fantastic condition right before they closed it. We played there alot and it was our favorite courses. Especially Pine Barrens but we will never play there again. At least until Cabot bails out in 5 or 10 years.

[jerebear21]

Everything cabot touches have turned to gold.  I expect the same.  Initial phase of housing has sold out. (Starting price low 2m).  Looking forward to being there a lot next year.  

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, jerebear21 said:

Everything cabot touches have turned to gold.  I expect the same.  Initial phase of housing has sold out. (Starting price low 2m).  Looking forward to being there a lot next year.  

They sent me the cottage sales pitch. Honestly wouldn’t have paid 50% of what they were asking for that neighborhood.   Glad they sold out though. 

[So_Cal]

15 hours ago, pro6604 said:

Both courses were in fantastic condition right before they closed it. We played there alot and it was our favorite courses. Especially Pine Barrens but we will never play there again. At least until Cabot bails out in 5 or 10 years.

I would have preferred that they restore the Fazio course.  It was a great track.  Money talks however. 

[jerebear21]

24 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

They sent me the cottage sales pitch. Honestly wouldn’t have paid 50% of what they were asking for that neighborhood.   Glad they sold out though. 

 

Tampa bay has a lot of wealthy people.  Pine barren has some of the worst routing there is. Rolling oaks was much better routing less dramatic.  Personally glad they’re tearing PB up.  Tampa bay deserves better than that run down.  The previews looks good.