How old is too old? Irons Edition

[NRJyzr]

4 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

ALL Mizuno forged irons from pre-2010 have conforming grooves. I read that in an article from 2019 that talked about Danny Lee using a set of MP 32's from Luke Donald's private stash. I'd link the article, but I'm lying in bed on my phone and it sounds like too much trouble to not do that on my PC.

 

I remember seeing that myself.  I felt obliged to chime in because I'd actually seen those on the conforming list when I was looking back to see which Mizunos had been actually submitted.  There's no way anyone can dispute them.  🙂

 

[boggyman]

My blades are from the 80’s that are played very regularly. I don’t play sanctioned events where the grooves would matter anyway. 

[Port and Starboard]

I still play with a set of Titleist 990's that are about a club shorter than my current Ping's but it doesn't affect my score what so ever.

 

 

[Drivingrangehero]

I sidelined my MP 20 HMB’s for a set of MP-37’s from 2004. 

 

The difference in ball speed is negligible when comparing loft to loft. 
 

I don’t get punished as much on strikes low on the face with the HMB’s, but I like the turf interaction and look of the MP-37’s better. I would be hard pressed to see much of a change as far as score goes between the two sets. 
 

I think there could be a benefit for someone using SGI’s over blades if you are 20+ handicapper and not finding the center of the face,  but if you are a single digit handicap, I think the difference may be between the ears, which is real, I’m not mocking it. Confidence can lower scores ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

[bnperrone]

10 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

ALL Mizuno forged irons from pre-2010 have conforming grooves. I read that in an article from 2019 that talked about Danny Lee using a set of MP 32's from Luke Donald's private stash. I'd link the article, but I'm lying in bed on my phone and it sounds like too much trouble to not do that on my PC.

Unrelated to grooves, that article’s discussion on the specific grind makes me think that that is what they’ve moved to with the 221 and 223. If so, we might be seeing a return to the sole geometry of their early 2000s blades with all the other enhancements they’ve made over the years. I don’t have a purchase planned and I’m wanting to stick with what I have for a while like I’ve done in the past, but I’m keeping my eyes on the 221 line (and probably some 223 long irons).

[JungleJimbo]

22 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

ALL Mizuno forged irons from pre-2010 have conforming grooves. I read that in an article from 2019 that talked about Danny Lee using a set of MP 32's from Luke Donald's private stash. I'd link the article, but I'm lying in bed on my phone and it sounds like too much trouble to not do that on my PC.

Here is the Danny Lee MP32 article

https://www.golfwrx.com/546076/danny-lees-mizuno-mp-32-irons-the-real-inside-scoop/
 

Danny Lee’s Mizuno MP-32 irons: The real inside scoop!

(Published  Feb 20, 2019)

[KenEvil]

I still play 690CB's a few times a year. They were my first set of "fitted" clubs and they still play great. Grooves are getting a little shy but that's another time.

[Billdozer324]

I’ve been going back and forth between my old TM rac mb set and my miura tb-zero blades. Although the rac grooves are non conforming, they are completely legal still to use unless the event deems the rule to be in effect. 2024 is the earliest the groove rule becomes a permanent rule. 
 

USGA championships require it but if you are playing just local club and state am events, the rule is generally not mentioned. 

[lefty1978]

I'm currently playing a set of MP-68 irons that launched in 2009. It's a forged blade so not that much different from anything new in that category, except the lofts may be 1 or 2 degrees weaker.

[Doaner84]

I recently just reshafted my j33s. they are still the sweetest irons i have ever hit.

[aenemated]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:42 AM, R5Two said:

Even blades like the P7TW have a tungsten plug.

 

And it's awesome, as a guy that's been gaming the T-Dubs for a good while now. I've been a blade guy for years and years and I can say with no hesitation that plug does A LOT for the feel. Best way I can describe it is ... if you've ever driven a 16 penny nail with one pure strike (I did home construction as a summer job when I was a kid, hence the reference)  ... THAT's how it feels. Love it. And love them.

 

That said, I feel like unless you're after the technology in the GI irons or player's distance irons of these days; there's not a TON of difference between most MB/CBs today vs. 20 years ago. Or more! Obviously the further you go back, the more you're getting into like the 50° PW days but a MB/CB is a MB/CB. 

 

I'm actually doing a rebuild of a set of MacGregor Muirfields (waiting on the heads to come back from restoration) from the early 80s rinnow. It's more a project for fun and learning and doubt I'll regularly game them but I'm super into getting them together and hitting them to see how they perform. Something tells me they won't be terribly different. 

[NRJyzr]

4 minutes ago, aenemated said:

doing a rebuild of a set of MacGregor Muirfields (waiting on the heads to come back from restoration) from the early 80s rinnow. It's more a project for fun and learning and doubt I'll regularly game them but I'm super into getting them together and hitting them to see how they perform. Something tells me they won't be terribly different. 

 

I own a set of Muirfields, I think you're on the right track with your last sentence.

 

They have a bit of bounce to them

 

[Bye]

Definitely anything pre groove rule change too old.

 

Then it’s all about,

 

Do the still look ok?

Are they shiny?

Have the grooves caved in?

Are there any stone marks in the wrong place?

Right shaft?

 

Anything falling into the yes, yes, no, no, yes category is go to go.

 

Hopefully there will always a forged non hollow option. I love my irons, but still wish I had a set of proper blades.

 

 

 

 

[drumdude96]

2 minutes ago, Bye said:

Definitely anything pre groove rule change too old.

 

Then it’s all about,

 

Do the still look ok?

Are they shiny?

Have the grooves caved in?

Are there any stone marks in the wrong place?

Right shaft?

 

Anything falling into the yes, yes, no, no, yes category is go to go.

 

Hopefully there will always a forged non hollow option. I love my irons, but still wish I had a set of proper blades.

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely not true.  There were plenty of forgings made before 2010 that have grooves that conform to the 2010 rule.  Being made before 2010 does not necessarily disqualify a set.  You just have to do some research to find out what clubs meet the groove rule guidelines.  

[Bye]

15 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

This is absolutely not true.  There were plenty of forgings made before 2010 that have grooves that conform to the 2010 rule.  Being made before 2010 does not necessarily disqualify a set.  You just have to do some research to find out what clubs meet the groove rule guidelines.  

Thank you for the correction.

 

I will change it anything non conforming is out. And I might see if I can find a set of of MP33’s or 660’s. 

[drumdude96]

34 minutes ago, Bye said:

Thank you for the correction.

 

I will change it anything non conforming is out. And I might see if I can find a set of of MP33’s or 660’s. 

Heck yeah!  There are some beautiful clubs out there just waiting to make it into someone's bag again!  We should all adopt a set or two!  Lol.  🤪

[R5Two]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

 

And it's awesome, as a guy that's been gaming the T-Dubs for a good while now. I've been a blade guy for years and years and I can say with no hesitation that plug does A LOT for the feel. Best way I can describe it is ... if you've ever driven a 16 penny nail with one pure strike (I did home construction as a summer job when I was a kid, hence the reference)  ... THAT's how it feels. Love it. And love them.

 

That said, I feel like unless you're after the technology in the GI irons or player's distance irons of these days; there's not a TON of difference between most MB/CBs today vs. 20 years ago. Or more! Obviously the further you go back, the more you're getting into like the 50° PW days but a MB/CB is a MB/CB. 

 

I'm actually doing a rebuild of a set of MacGregor Muirfields (waiting on the heads to come back from restoration) from the early 80s rinnow. It's more a project for fun and learning and doubt I'll regularly game them but I'm super into getting them together and hitting them to see how they perform. Something tells me they won't be terribly different. 

Those P7TW are sweet feeling for sure. Hammer driving nails, I would describe it the exact same way! 

 

It is crazy though with the thick perimeter weighting on the 695 CBs they don't feel like P7TWs at all bit feel a lot more like a hammer than many of the players irons I have hit recently. All preference I know but I was shocked how similiar good strikes were on the 695s. They are old enough to drive! 

[R5Two]

I have to say it is really cool to see the equipment that all of you are playing. I love WITB and when people have clubs with character I find myself googling them to see when they came out, what they look like, etc. Pretty cool, I think I have seen at least 2 irons sets mentioned that I never knew what they were

[B_of_H]

As long as the grooves are sharp enough to get decent flight out of the rough and the faces aren't caved in then there is nothing 'too old'.  Iron tech is overrated as long as the turf interaction and shafts are a decent fit for your action.  That being said if you play 75 rounds a year with blades and they are over 5 years old the grooves as probably getting pretty dull.  

[NRJyzr]

12 minutes ago, B_of_H said:

As long as the grooves are sharp enough to get decent flight out of the rough and the faces aren't caved in then there is nothing 'too old'.  Iron tech is overrated as long as the turf interaction and shafts are a decent fit for your action.  That being said if you play 75 rounds a year with blades and they are over 5 years old the grooves as probably getting pretty dull.  

 

It's not sharpness of grooves that matter.  It's volume to channel the impediments as much as possible.

 

[B_of_H]

4 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's not sharpness of grooves that matter.  It's volume to channel the impediments as much as possible.

 

 

well, when the edges get dull we replace irons and wedges.  we can see the difference in flight and confirm with launch monitors.  I think you are referring more to the legality of grooves perhaps?  

[NRJyzr]

36 minutes ago, B_of_H said:

 

well, when the edges get dull we replace irons and wedges.  we can see the difference in flight and confirm with launch monitors.  I think you are referring more to the legality of grooves perhaps?  

 

No, I'm referring to groove sharpness.  Grooves are not a primary component of spin production on clean lies, their purpose it to channel impediments.

 

When grooveless clubfaces were tested, those tests showed an increase in spin on clean lies.  Was a surprise, it seems.  🙂

 

Side note:  it was also discovered that a perfectly flat face will produce more spin than one that's somewhat less than perfectly flat.  IMO this is the biggest issue with iron/wedge wear; using an iron or wedge creates small/microscopic defects in the club face.  Dana Upshaw used to talk about this all the time, back in the day.

 

A lot of folks have assumed it's the sharp edges, but it's really not.  That "study" that was published by (I think) Titleist in the recent past hasn't helped in that regard.  Quite the exercise in confirmation bias...

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by NRJyzr

[golftech]

I miss my 2000 TM300 Miura’s.  I used them until 2016.  Current forged CB’s are only marginally more forgiving.  But all lack that solid, forged Miura feel!

[Jifmoli]

Check the expiry date of the clubs on the box...

 

Seriously though, are you a WRXer or what?! Did you really need to ask? Anything more than 2 years (Titleist cycle) is ancient, might as well use a hocky stick!

 

But jokingly though: play what works well, feels well, or looks well.

[Port and Starboard]

5 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

And it's awesome, as a guy that's been gaming the T-Dubs for a good while now. I've been a blade guy for years and years and I can say with no hesitation that plug does A LOT for the feel. Best way I can describe it is ... if you've ever driven a 16 penny nail with one pure strike (I did home construction as a summer job when I was a kid, hence the reference)  ... THAT's how it feels. Love it. And love them.

 

That said, I feel like unless you're after the technology in the GI irons or player's distance irons of these days; there's not a TON of difference between most MB/CBs today vs. 20 years ago. Or more! Obviously the further you go back, the more you're getting into like the 50° PW days but a MB/CB is a MB/CB. 

 

I'm actually doing a rebuild of a set of MacGregor Muirfields (waiting on the heads to come back from restoration) from the early 80s rinnow. It's more a project for fun and learning and doubt I'll regularly game them but I'm super into getting them together and hitting them to see how they perform. Something tells me they won't be terribly different. 

 

The Muirfield's were really nice. 

 

It's a shame that McGregor went down hill slowly afterwards.

[Chip2win]

I recently "found" a set of MP 68's in the garage and couldn't believe how great they felt.  I can't remember why I stopped using them.  Only problem was 1 degree weaker loft than the current line.  So do I pay $1,000 for the MP 20's just to get 1 degree?  Of course!  Unfortunately, I couldn't be more disappointed.  Despite the copper underlay or whatever such BS they are trying to push, the MP 68's feel wayyyyy better.  Stick with what works, regardless of age.

[GGalunga]

Just did a test myself with two sets of irons that were 15 years old vs a newer set from last year.  My older sets (were fitted for me mind you) and performed the same or better than the newer set. So I'm selling the newer set since they have better resale value. I had all 3 sets checked for loft, lie, length, flex, etc to make it a fair comparison and tested them all on the same calibrated launch monitor, same ball and over multiple days just to keep things fair. 

[GGalunga]

4 minutes ago, GGalunga said:

Just did a test myself with two sets of irons that were 15 years old vs a newer set from last year.  My older sets (were fitted for me mind you) and performed the same or better than the newer set. So I'm selling the newer set since they have better resale value. I had all 3 sets checked for loft, lie, length, flex, etc to make it a fair comparison and tested them all on the same calibrated launch monitor, same ball and over multiple days just to keep things fair. 

Now since I'm not a robot, and recovering from back surgery, I've been testing all these irons together and separately for multiple sessions over the past couple weeks. Somedays I'm better than others but this snap shot is an average of the last 10 shots.

• All the lofts and lie angles were adjusted to match.
• The same ball and launch monitor were used. 
• KZG and Srixon both have RP Project X shaft, the Mizuno's have Oban shaft.
• Swing weights vary quite a bit, the Mizuno's are D0, Srixon's D4, and KZG's are D7

 

	Club	Ball	Smash	Launch	Spin	Height	Carry	Total
KZG Evolution (2004)	81.9	117.3	1.43	21.4	5865	99.4	170	180
Mizuno HMB (2020)	84.0	116.0	1.38	20.4	6782	95.7	166	176
Srixon I-506 (2006)	86.0	115.5	1.34	20.7	6917	97.8	165	174

 

[Ben Berube]

On 1/12/2022 at 8:11 AM, taylormade4life said:

Just picked up a set of these.. don’t think the head will make a huge difference compared to my current set.. I do plan to put my steelfiber in them though. As others mentioned, blade/CB irons I don’t think change as much.

I have a set on the way as well. Congrats! 

[Dyna_Lefty]

Have had my old 2005 Mizuno MP 32s in the bag since the start of the new year (FL season).  Callaway X Forged 2018 irons taking a breather.  The old irons have relatively heavy Rifle shafts versus the Callaway's 95 gm Recoil shafts.  I seem to synch and release the heavier irons better and I prefer the impact feel of the Mizunos.  However, results aren't showing any improvement and the older lofts provide different distances that I haven't adjusted to.  Likely to end this experiment soon reverting to the newer set.  May consider returning to steel shafts however.