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New 1099k rules...and how it impacts gear junkies/golfers. Is this actually a good thing? CPAs feel free to chime in (merged)


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Sorry if this is the wrong place for it, but does anyone have a sense of how the new IRS rules for online selling will affect selling clubs on eBay? 
 

In the past you had to have $20K in sales and 200 transactions to be issued a 1099.   Now the threshold is only $600.  So if I just sell my old driver and say a putter or two I could trip this?  Would this be subject to tax?  
 

My argument would be that I paid more for these than I sold them for, therefore I made no profit on my cost basis?  Is that how others interpret it?  What would you need to do to prove this?  Won’t it become problematic if you sell clubs 5-10 years old?   Given this forum, I know many of you are constantly buying and selling, and if not on BST, then on eBay, so figured someone has figured this out. 
 

Any insights would be appreciated before I start selling this year…

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Right here in Deal or No Deal....

 

 

 

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On 12/17/2021 at 3:08 PM, dlow206 said:

 

Yeah, it does cause extra paperwork which is a PITA

 

I've created a file for all my sales now. Before I put something up for sale I'm finding the receipt from when I first bought the item and then adding the sale document when it's sold. It will be a total PITA but because I rarely sell things for a profit it won't cost me much money in the long run.

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On 12/29/2021 at 10:25 PM, endy said:


With Venmo now offering goods and services protection, people are using that more and more as well. Crappy thing is, I can see scammers using the new law as an excuse as to why they will only accept “gifted” payment, and unfortunately I think people will oblige it more often. Going to be interesting waters to navigate lol. 

 

This has already happened. The Swag BST channel on facebook, the admins announced this week that they'll allow gifting. Honestly that's just asking to get screwed. I don't trust internet users to do this anymore. Back in the early 200s we did moreso but more and more scammers came along. If you can't afford to pay the tax on that income don't going into the resale market.

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13 minutes ago, Marty86 said:

 

This has already happened. The Swag BST channel on facebook, the admins announced this week that they'll allow gifting. Honestly that's just asking to get screwed. I don't trust internet users to do this anymore. Back in the early 200s we did moreso but more and more scammers came along. If you can't afford to pay the tax on that income don't going into the resale market.


I can see it working out fine in the smaller, private BST groups where most guys know each other and/or have done business before. Something like GCT with 150k members or the public groups will be much more difficult to navigate. 

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15 minutes ago, wobgon said:

I was told that refunds thru paypal also are added to the total....Anyone know if this is the case?

If I recall correctly there were all types of transactions I had to account for besides items I had sold.  Even several payments from friends when splitting bills where they screwed up and sent me the $ as g/s instead of f/f.  

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12 hours ago, Gxhwh said:

Since Ebay no longer work with PayPal, it collect its only fee of 13%, then send the money directly to your bank account. Will selling on Ebay makes any different in this case? 

From my understanding, eBay is included in this, but would be a separate $600 allocation….could be wrong.

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My statement is a showwwww.

 

So basically looks like the IRS / Paypal is putting the entire burden on you. Its maddening really. If you buy something for $1,000 and sell it later for $800 - Paypal "counts" that as $800 in income for the month. Even though in the statement it shows both the debit and credit to your account - its only counting the debit. 

 

Now you multiply that by 12 months of not going out like you used to and doing nothing but buying stuff you dont need and...no?....just me? Lol.

 

I still think the math is off somewhere. My statement only lists 26 "payment transactions" and I am halfway below the threshold but I still got a statement - and I sure as heck didn't make any profit this year LOL.

Edited by dcmidnight

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  • dcmidnight changed the title to Information regarding 2022 for selling equipment or anything else (Ebay/Paypal/Tax topic merged)
1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

My statement is a showwwww.

 

So basically looks like the IRS / Paypal is putting the entire burden on you. Its maddening really. If you buy something for $1,000 and sell it later for $800 - Paypal "counts" that as $800 in income for the month. Even though in the statement it shows both the debit and credit to your account - its only counting the debit. 

 

Now you multiply that by 12 months of not going out like you used to and doing nothing but buying stuff you dont need and...no?....just me? Lol.

 

I still think the math is off somewhere. My statement only lists 26 "payment transactions" and I am halfway below the threshold but I still got a statement - and I sure as heck didn't make any profit this year LOL.

In fairness to the IRS, how do they know the $1000 and $800 transactions are for the purchase and sale of the same item?

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42 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

In fairness to the IRS, how do they know the $1000 and $800 transactions are for the purchase and sale of the same item?

 

They don't - I accept that.

 

But they sure don't seem to make the form easy either. Its not like there's a checkbox to say "Does this amount represent a profit" or "Enter net amount" or...something else.

 

The form is simply a measure of gross receipts.

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38 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

They don't - I accept that.

 

But they sure don't seem to make the form easy either. Its not like there's a checkbox to say "Does this amount represent a profit" or "Enter net amount" or...something else.

 

The form is simply a measure of gross receipts.

If I recall correctly from last year, what you should enter on the IRS form is $0 (assuming that's accurate) and then create a separate spreadsheet to balance the transactions.  If that spreadsheet shows negative or $0 profit, then enter $0 on the form as you didn't have an actual profit.  The spreadsheet doesn't get filed, it's just in your files should you be audited.  Receipts would obviously be smart to keep as well.

 

Edit- the real kicker is if you did profit on a transaction here and there.  Those should be reported and since it's not a business those profits aren't offset by losses, at least that's my amateur understanding. 

Edited by brew4eagle

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If I ever profited on a transaction, I would start a separate thread and let the entire forum know LOL.

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I thought this was to start with the 2022 tax year?

Not 2021

TAYLORMADE MYSTEALTH PLUS Blackout Driver, 9*, Ventus Blue TR Velocore, 6X (tip 1.5")

TAYLORMADE STEALTH PLUS FAIRWAYS/HYBRIDS, #3, 16.5*, Accra '22 TZSix 75 M5;  #7, 21* Kaili White 80TX; #4 HY 22* Ventus Black Velocore HB 10TX

PXG GEN5 0311X, Black Label Elite;   18* Accra '22 TZFive, 95HY M5 // 22*, Accra '22 TZFive, 105DI M5

PXG GEN4 0311ST, Xtreme Dark, 5 - GW, CTaper Lite LE Black, X

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy II Milled Wedges, Xtreme Dark, 56*/10,  62*/10, LAGolf L (S)

TOULON GARAGE Austin Custom Rose Gold // SCOTTY CAMERON Santa Fe T3 Custom Antique Copper

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3 hours ago, brew4eagle said:

If I recall correctly from last year, what you should enter on the IRS form is $0 (assuming that's accurate) and then create a separate spreadsheet to balance the transactions.  If that spreadsheet shows negative or $0 profit, then enter $0 on the form as you didn't have an actual profit.  The spreadsheet doesn't get filed, it's just in your files should you be audited.  Receipts would obviously be smart to keep as well.

 

Edit- the real kicker is if you did profit on a transaction here and there.  Those should be reported and since it's not a business those profits aren't offset by losses, at least that's my amateur understanding. 

This is the part I am curious about. I searched the IRS website for 30min and could not find clear guidance on the statements to receipts requirements. They are only reporting monthly transactions, you could theoretically bury in some losses to offset some "gains" depending on how detailed they expect you to report your costs. What a complete waste of tax payer dollars if they want to hire this army of IRS agents to look at completely itemized lists of such low dollar transactions smdh

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7 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

This is the part I am curious about. I searched the IRS website for 30min and could not find clear guidance on the statements to receipts requirements. They are only reporting monthly transactions, you could theoretically bury in some losses to offset some "gains" depending on how detailed they expect you to report your costs. What a complete waste of tax payer dollars if they want to hire this army of IRS agents to look at completely itemized lists of such low dollar transactions smdh

I don't think they'll be looking at itemized lists though.  In the grander scheme of online/paypal-like transactions I do think there is A LOT of unreported actual income that should be subject to taxation, so I actually see it as necessary even though it is painful as an individual.  As far as using losses to offset some gains, I think it's pretty clear that doing so would be dishonest and potentially illegal, though the small amount we're talking about for golf hobbyists isn't on the radar.

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Here's what the email from Paypal said

 

To comply with IRS regulations, we've have issued a Form 1099-K for tax year 2021, which is now available in your PayPal account.

The form summarizes the gross payments you received through PayPal for the sales of goods and services during 2021. This information isn’t intended to be and should not be taken as tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor about how these transactions should be reported.

To view and print your form, click View Form 1099-K or:

  1. Log in to your PayPal account and go to Profile.
  2. Click Statements and Taxes.
  3. Select Tax Documents and the tax year.

If you haven’t given consent for e-delivery of Form 1099-K, we’ll also send you a paper copy in the mail. We’ll also send the information contained in the form to the IRS and to relevant state tax authorities to comply with tax reporting regulations.

Thanks for being a valued PayPal customer.

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10 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Here's what the email from Paypal said

 

To comply with IRS regulations, we've have issued a Form 1099-K for tax year 2021, which is now available in your PayPal account.

The form summarizes the gross payments you received through PayPal for the sales of goods and services during 2021. This information isn’t intended to be and should not be taken as tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor about how these transactions should be reported.

To view and print your form, click View Form 1099-K or:

  1. Log in to your PayPal account and go to Profile.
  2. Click Statements and Taxes.
  3. Select Tax Documents and the tax year.

If you haven’t given consent for e-delivery of Form 1099-K, we’ll also send you a paper copy in the mail. We’ll also send the information contained in the form to the IRS and to relevant state tax authorities to comply with tax reporting regulations.

Thanks for being a valued PayPal customer.

Thanks for the info, just checked and I have a 1099-K again.  Fortunately it was for WAY less $ and WAY fewer transactions so the filing should be super easy.  I learned my lesson from last year's hoin' ways and the 1099-K that resulted!

Edit- although now that I think about it, my ebay sales wouldn't be in PayPal anymore so I should have a 2nd statement coming from ebay(?).

Edited by brew4eagle

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1 minute ago, brew4eagle said:

I don't think they'll be looking at itemized lists though.  In the grander scheme of online/paypal-like transactions I do think there is A LOT of unreported actual income that should be subject to taxation, so I actually see it as necessary even though it is painful as an individual.  As far as using losses to offset some gains, I think it's pretty clear that doing so would be dishonest and potentially illegal, though the small amount we're talking about for golf hobbyists isn't on the radar.

Dishonest/illegal is a bit extreme, it really depends on the actual reporting requirements IMHO. If they are not expecting an itemized list of transactions, that tells me they are more interested in big picture (ie are you turning a profit over all). But you are right, small time hobbyists of any sort isn't really the aim here, its those running legit small businesses under the radar.


Dumb law either way, between the extra head count required to audit this sort of small dollar activity and those gig folks who will simply form actual business such that they can actually offset profits with losses (and deduct other expenses), I bet this is going to be a net loss for the IRS lol. 

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32 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Here's what the email from Paypal said

 

To comply with IRS regulations, we've have issued a Form 1099-K for tax year 2021, which is now available in your PayPal account.

The form summarizes the gross payments you received through PayPal for the sales of goods and services during 2021. This information isn’t intended to be and should not be taken as tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor about how these transactions should be reported.

To view and print your form, click View Form 1099-K or:

  1. Log in to your PayPal account and go to Profile.
  2. Click Statements and Taxes.
  3. Select Tax Documents and the tax year.

If you haven’t given consent for e-delivery of Form 1099-K, we’ll also send you a paper copy in the mail. We’ll also send the information contained in the form to the IRS and to relevant state tax authorities to comply with tax reporting regulations.

Thanks for being a valued PayPal customer.

 

 

Nothing in mine for `19, `20, .... `21 (yet)

And I do buy/sell via PayPal.

 

TAYLORMADE MYSTEALTH PLUS Blackout Driver, 9*, Ventus Blue TR Velocore, 6X (tip 1.5")

TAYLORMADE STEALTH PLUS FAIRWAYS/HYBRIDS, #3, 16.5*, Accra '22 TZSix 75 M5;  #7, 21* Kaili White 80TX; #4 HY 22* Ventus Black Velocore HB 10TX

PXG GEN5 0311X, Black Label Elite;   18* Accra '22 TZFive, 95HY M5 // 22*, Accra '22 TZFive, 105DI M5

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10 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

 

 

Nothing in mine for `19, `20, .... `21 (yet)

And I do buy/sell via PayPal.

 

You needed 20k+ and 200 transactions to trigger a 1099 in the past (ie obvious signs you are doing high volume potentially profitable online commerce). Now it's simply $600 and no transaction limit. So a single expensive driver or lightly used set of irons will get you a tax form. 

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17 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

You needed 20k+ and 200 transactions to trigger a 1099 in the past (ie obvious signs you are doing high volume potentially profitable online commerce). Now it's simply $600 and no transaction limit. So a single expensive driver or lightly used set of irons will get you a tax form. 

 

Yes, that is what I thought and I already have an Excel Spreedsheet to account for transactions involving a sale....all at a loss.

Somewhat difficult when I buy a club and then sell just the head, ie driver head and keep the shaft.  Must make some assumptions on cost.

Edited by BirdieBob

TAYLORMADE MYSTEALTH PLUS Blackout Driver, 9*, Ventus Blue TR Velocore, 6X (tip 1.5")

TAYLORMADE STEALTH PLUS FAIRWAYS/HYBRIDS, #3, 16.5*, Accra '22 TZSix 75 M5;  #7, 21* Kaili White 80TX; #4 HY 22* Ventus Black Velocore HB 10TX

PXG GEN5 0311X, Black Label Elite;   18* Accra '22 TZFive, 95HY M5 // 22*, Accra '22 TZFive, 105DI M5

PXG GEN4 0311ST, Xtreme Dark, 5 - GW, CTaper Lite LE Black, X

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy II Milled Wedges, Xtreme Dark, 56*/10,  62*/10, LAGolf L (S)

TOULON GARAGE Austin Custom Rose Gold // SCOTTY CAMERON Santa Fe T3 Custom Antique Copper

STEWART GOLF Q Follow Electric Cart..Carbon // SKYCADDIE SX550 // COBALT Q6 Slope

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1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

You needed 20k+ and 200 transactions to trigger a 1099 in the past (ie obvious signs you are doing high volume potentially profitable online commerce). Now it's simply $600 and no transaction limit. So a single expensive driver or lightly used set of irons will get you a tax form. 

Are you certain this passed? I was just told by my buddy that owns a shop here this didn't pass? His mother being an accountant , she was under the impression that it fell through... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

You needed 20k+ and 200 transactions to trigger a 1099 in the past (ie obvious signs you are doing high volume potentially profitable online commerce). Now it's simply $600 and no transaction limit. So a single expensive driver or lightly used set of irons will get you a tax form. 

There's also states that incorporated different rules starting years ago.  This is the 2nd year in a row I've received a 1099K as Virginia set its threshold at $600 starting in CY 2020 I believe.

Edit- here's the states that already have incorporated this (effective for as far back as 2020 for VA, for example):

  • Arkansas
  • Illinois
  • Massachusetts
  • Washington D.C
  • Maryland
  • Mississippi
  • Missouri
  • New Jersey
  • Vermont 
  • Virginia
Edited by brew4eagle
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4 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

Are you certain this passed? I was just told by my buddy that owns a shop here this didn't pass? His mother being an accountant , she was under the impression that it fell through... 

 

Passed in March of last year and went into effect on January 1st of this year. 

 

I'm not sure I'd let your buddy's mom do your taxes anymore if she had been 😬.

Edited by Abh159
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  • Gxgolfer changed the title to New 1099k rules...and how it impacts gear junkies/golfers. Is this actually a good thing? CPAs feel free to chime in (merged)

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