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Do Blades negatively impact performance? Or is it all in our heads?


RoyalMustang
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A lot has been written here about pro-blades/anti-blades.  My question for those of you who play them or don't play them: do they negatively impact your performance?  Could you shoot a lower score if you had played a GI or SGI iron?  Is that 8-iron you hit slightly thin and left 160 and in the bunker really 164 and a birdie putt with a GI iron? Or is that just your assumption as you have no data to back it up with?  Do you see higher scores with blades and lower scores with other irons? Enough to statistically matter to get to a 95% CI? 

 

I have only played 2 rounds with blades but I can say that they were both pretty low rounds. I had some good iron strikes.  It is anecdotal evidence however: perhaps I was playing well, perhaps I got lucky. I was well positioned off of the tee.  I can't say for sure that I was better with these irons.  Perhaps I was better as I dialed down my expectations and made smooth swings.  I know a blade 8i isn't going to fly 175, so I don't try to hit it 175.  That is completely mental however.  Make a smooth swing and hit to 165. 

 

For what it is worth, I play Mizuno MMC MP20s, but I also have a hybrid set of Callaway MB21/Apex Pros. And no, I don't have enough rounds to say either way. I sure do like the way the MB21's look when I line up however!  

 

I should preface this in that I am talking about people with solid swing fundamentals.  The guys/gals you see swing and say "low single digit/scratch/plus".  Their wear spot on their 7 iron might not be the size of a dime, but a nickel is pretty typical.  

 

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Yes. Thin shots hang in there much better with a cavity back IMO. Long irons are also much easier to hit. I'm switching into cavity backs and a 4 hybrid for this next year. 
 

Don't have data yet but I guarantee my par 3 and par 5 scoring will drop this next year! 

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I switched from a blade set to a modern gamer forged set with a moderate cavity.

 

I can tell you, I used to have a 2i.  It wasn't a forgiving beast.  If you are swinging well that day, it makes butter pure feel and has just the nicest feel ever.  Always felt like I could steer it like a car and just pick it from lies and make it do the things I wanted.  

 

But I've had many tee shots where I decided to hit 2i to "hit the fairway" and just took it slightly on the toe.  Instead of being 5 yards short of target, it few like 40 or 50 yards shorter than normal and just died like it was knocked out of the sky.

 

I recently got a hybrid 2h instead, and honestly, if I hit it out on the toe, I just lose 5-10 yards.  No big deal.   You can still hit it fat or thin, but even those seem to fly much more reliably.   I lost the feeling of being able to steer it like a car (I think that was my hand-eye ability to manipulate the lightweight clubface near impact), but it's just so much more reliable.

 

The difference between it coming off like an injured duck and just sort of losing a little distance is pretty huge and VERY VERY obvious.

 

For shorter irons, I don't feel the same thing.  I do feel like having a little cavity makes thin shots fly a little better, but most blades still have a ton of weight at the bottom, so it's not a huge difference and I don't really remember missing a 9i "on the toe" a ton being an issue.

 

I totally understand guys (even many PGA tour pros) who use a blade for 7/8-PW and use a more forgiving set for longer clubs.  

Edited by EricMatt
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Can't say I've really ever played with SGI irons aside from an extremely brief stint years ago. Between playing a full MB set, and a full CB set, I don't notice any differences in score. I definitely prefer the look of the mb at address though. CBs usually make their way into the bag at the beginning of the year when the rust is getting knocked off, if they do offer any extra forgiveness (which I don't actively notice) might as well take advantage of it when things are a little sloppy

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Long irons are easier to hit when not blades yes but its also not impossible therefore i play long irons in blades and smaller irons...short and mid irons are much better in blades and small cb. Hands down. In the few blades and small cb ive played theirs not much of penalty to me on misshits. I allways assumed a misshit with one ment 20 30 less yards and possibly the nastiest wierdest ball flights on anything heel or toey... its just not true. Ive hit way toey shots that have made it pin high and some middle shots that missed the green by 5 yards but i will take that for the look of club i like. My scores have only improved since better irons.

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This just in, along with religion and politics, blades vs GI irons just added to the list of societal taboo topics…

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Pure blades aren’t hard to hit in the short irons. In fact I think it’s easier. It’s when you get to the 5,4,3 irons that pure blades are difficult. Higher cog means you need a more pure strike with decent club head speed to get these on a playable trajectory.

Edited by Jim E
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It is really hard to play enough rounds to prove much of anything.  This year I’ve been walking a fair amount with a half set.  Maybe 20 rounds.  I’ve played maybe twice that many with my full set.  The difference round to round is hard to detect.  I have good rounds and bad rounds with both set ups.  That doesn’t mean I don’t “know” that I am better off with all of my clubs.  I think the same thing can be said for blades versus a game improvement iron.  It’s very hard to find proof out on the course.  On a launch monitor it’s fairly easy.  For me, as always ymmv, my mishits are punished much more with blades.
 In my recent fitting I hit my i210’s against the i59 (I’m sure someone will argue that they are not blades but they sure looked like blades).  I hit my 7 iron around 155.  When I mishit one (usually thin) it would go 145-150.  The blades came out around 150 when well struck but when I mishit one I found them dropping into the mid 130’s.  And at a 3.5ish handicap I mishit plenty.  I know some will argue that they like the mishits to be shorter to save them from trees and what not but that is just plain wrong, imho.  Sure you will be saved at times, but what I’m interested in is the shot that is a touch thin or a little fat.  I want those shots to be on or around the green.  
  For my game the answer is clear.  I can work and flight the ball just fine with a set like my i210’s or the xforged cb I had previously, but I get away with more.  Limited time on a launch monitor shows that.  The effect on scoring, from one round to another, is not huge, but I believe it adds up over time.  That’s the answer for me.  Each player needs to hop on a launch monitor on real grass and find out for themselves, and weigh the pros and cons of each type.  At the end of the day we should play whatever makes us enjoy the game most though (unless you are a professional or aspiring professional at which point there are other factors).  

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How much I practice and play has a far greater effect on my score than what irons are in my bag.  I don't see a noticeable change as long as I can get the proper ball flight out of the iron.  Whatever you're comfortable and confident with.  I love the ball flight, feedback, and feel of a blade.  I'm sure switching to something like a T100 certainly wouldn't hurt my score.  Beyond that I'm not a fan of the hot face low spin hollow irons for anything below 5 iron. 

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If you have some speed , there’s no Negative effect that I’ve ever seen anybody quantify from say 5 iron down.  Obviously 2-3 iron will require pretty good everything ….. but many play a hybrid there anyway.
 

 Personal preference should be the reason for the  Choice either way.  If you’re hitting the relative middle it’s not performance 

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1 hour ago, jomatty said:

It is really hard to play enough rounds to prove much of anything.  This year I’ve been walking a fair amount with a half set.  Maybe 20 rounds.  I’ve played maybe twice that many with my full set.  The difference round to round is hard to detect.  I have good rounds and bad rounds with both set ups.  That doesn’t mean I don’t “know” that I am better off with all of my clubs.  I think the same thing can be said for blades versus a game improvement iron.  It’s very hard to find proof out on the course.  On a launch monitor it’s fairly easy.  For me, as always ymmv, my mishits are punished much more with blades.
 In my recent fitting I hit my i210’s against the i59 (I’m sure someone will argue that they are not blades but they sure looked like blades).  I hit my 7 iron around 155.  When I mishit one (usually thin) it would go 145-150.  The blades came out around 150 when well struck but when I mishit one I found them dropping into the mid 130’s.  And at a 3.5ish handicap I mishit plenty.  I know some will argue that they like the mishits to be shorter to save them from trees and what not but that is just plain wrong, imho.  Sure you will be saved at times, but what I’m interested in is the shot that is a touch thin or a little fat.  I want those shots to be on or around the green.  
  For my game the answer is clear.  I can work and flight the ball just fine with a set like my i210’s or the xforged cb I had previously, but I get away with more.  Limited time on a launch monitor shows that.  The effect on scoring, from one round to another, is not huge, but I believe it adds up over time.  That’s the answer for me.  Each player needs to hop on a launch monitor on real grass and find out for themselves, and weigh the pros and cons of each type.  At the end of the day we should play whatever makes us enjoy the game most though (unless you are a professional or aspiring professional at which point there are other factors).  

 

Interesting.  My "blade set" is only 8-PW, so it isn't huge, but there are times when I hit a 9-iron into the green, just a touch thin, and it probably is shorter than my cavity backed player's iron.  Is it an issue?  Well, if there is a bunker guarding the hole and I wanted to be below the pin to start with, perhaps!  2 yards lost is now a real issue. 

 

Trouble is, on the range, I get into the groove and can hit the blade 9i every bit as well, if not better, than I can my cavity 9i.  The consistency is amazing when you strike it well.  If only golf was played at the range, right? 

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4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

If you have some speed , there’s no Negative effect that I’ve ever seen anybody quantify from say 5 iron down.  Obviously 2-3 iron will require pretty good everything ….. but many play a hybrid there anyway.
 

 Personal preference should be the reason for the  Choice either way.  If you’re hitting the relative middle it’s not performance 

 

Yeah, I am not super-human; I am not exactly automatic from 225 with my forged CB 4-iron, so no need to look at a blade there.  I was just wondering for mere mortals that may play a blade set of shorter irons.  

 

I just picked up a 50-degre JAWS gap wedge with 130 C-Taper shaft and it feels AMAZING. I went to the park yesterday and hit about 60 balls. I couldn't believe the feel and consistency of this thing. I have to hit 70% effort shots due to being in a public park (don't want to skull a wedge and scare someone, even if they are 200 yards away) but my target area of 105 yards was just packed with balls.  Flight and distance were so easy to re-create. I haven't really played with a bladed gap wedge before.  I can see the argument to be made, if you can consistently find the sweet spot

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10 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

A lot has been written here about pro-blades/anti-blades.  My question for those of you who play them or don't play them: do they negatively impact your performance?  Could you shoot a lower score if you had played a GI or SGI iron?  Is that 8-iron you hit slightly thin and left 160 and in the bunker really 164 and a birdie putt with a GI iron? Or is that just your assumption as you have no data to back it up with?  Do you see higher scores with blades and lower scores with other irons? Enough to statistically matter to get to a 95% CI?

 

 

I play blades because I like the look at address, and because it is a whole heck of a lot easier to work the ball with a blade which is important to me. 

 

The only time it negatively impacts my performance is if I mishit it. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often. Then again a mishit shot is a mishit shot regardless of what type of club you're playing.

Edited by Abh159
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29 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Yeah, I am not super-human; I am not exactly automatic from 225 with my forged CB 4-iron, so no need to look at a blade there.  I was just wondering for mere mortals that may play a blade set of shorter irons.  

 

I just picked up a 50-degre JAWS gap wedge with 130 C-Taper shaft and it feels AMAZING. I went to the park yesterday and hit about 60 balls. I couldn't believe the feel and consistency of this thing. I have to hit 70% effort shots due to being in a public park (don't want to skull a wedge and scare someone, even if they are 200 yards away) but my target area of 105 yards was just packed with balls.  Flight and distance were so easy to re-create. I haven't really played with a bladed gap wedge before.  I can see the argument to be made, if you can consistently find the sweet spot

For sure. Up to 7 iron any person can do. Anyone.  No issues at all. 

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It's probably not what you think...

 

I used to play blades pretty regularly and I switched away for 2 practical reasons:
 

(1) Blades were providing too much unnecessary feedback

(2) I didn't want to be a range rat working on iron strike 24/7

 

I could also include the fact I play on turf that is usually on the softer / wet side. That means erring on the side of clubs that have less tendency to dig or conversely--spending more time at the range to perfect my impact, LOL. 

 

If you're going to be a good player you'll have to spend a ton of your practice time putting, driving and wedging. I just don't have the time nor the perfect swing to carry a full set of blades. I tried a combo set once but I didn't like the discontinuity in setup, feel, performance, etc. 

 

Blades are certainly fun to look at. They're eye-catching. They elicit some nice compliments. They feel great (at least on good days). And they're easy to clean, too! But in the end, I found I was most happy with a stable club that resists sending the ball off-line and enhances launch consistency. I want to practice my iron-play as little as I can get away with so I can focus on clubs more fundamental to my overall game: driver, wedge, putter, etc.

 

I'll always be a bit of a range rat. I love hitting the ball. But blades encouraged me to overdo that tendency. In the end I switched to to a "player's CB" for the sake of consistency and that had as much to do with feel / perception as anything. I'm not ashamed to say that the extra feedback of a blade was something I didn't honestly care for. 

 

You have to remember that feedback is negative information. It's vibration. A flushed shot provides virtually no vibratory feedback. That's why we say it feels "good." So why have a club that maximizes that extra vibration? It's always going to be more unpleasant than the alternative(s). The only option is to hit it increasingly well, which isn't really needed to play solid golf and it may not be possible for most folks with their imperfect swings. 

 

A player's CB is good enough to feel the imperfections in the strike, but it doesn't distract you from playing the game. It was a perfect amount of feel for me. 

Edited by MelloYello
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Been discussed so many times before and everyone chimes in with their personal perspective - to be honest in terms if what makes or breaks your score iron forgiveness is not a huge factor - it can be depending on the specific player - but in general its not the biggest influencer.

How 'bad' a swing can you get away with using CB/GI/SGI iron before even they dont save you. How many times would better course management come into play if catching your bladed 6i just a hair thin dumped you in a hazard - would clubbing up to mitigate your miss have worked out better anyway.

Everytime this comes up I ask if anyone has seen any real data on the influence of 'iron tech' on handicap  - and I have not seen it, or more importantly no OEM has ever claimed that CB/GI/SGI will reduce your score (distance claims yes, forgiveness claims yes, scoring average no, GiR no)

I imagine the data is there from Arcoss and Shot scope  - handicap ranges, strokes gained data, GiR data - assuming they can link the player and the clubs.
Is this what Scott Fawcett is trying to tease out - it would be a massive selling point for an OEM if they could show a statistically significant benefit for their clubs.

So far - the fact the no-one has been able to claim that their irons reduce score  - makes me think its negligible....

But we all like shiny things  - me included

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I usually play my S55s but I played a set of P730s for 1 round this year. Scoring wise it didn't make a difference since I end up hitting a lot of short irons and wedges on par 4s. Only place I got concerned was a few long par 3's. I had a good ball striking day so they didn't impact my round, but they did impact my confidence over shots in subpar lies. 

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I would definitely recommend trying blades as an experience. I think they can be fun, even if they're a little over your pay-grade. They are unique in terms of looks & feel. There's nothing wrong with gaining some exposure. 

 

Even though I'm a happy CB user these days, I know I had a lot of good fun with blades through the years. Always better to try something and move away than to never try them at all. 

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I've shot my personal best score a few times and have done it with players distance, CB and MB irons in the bag.  To the OP's question, no, I don't think I've seen any negative impact to my handicap/scores from playing a CB or MB iron.  A bad strike is a bad strike and I've been punished off-center with a players distance iron just like a CB or MB.  The impact of that mis-hit (from what I've seen personally) is probably marginally less with the players distance iron.  That being said, because my ball striking is generally pretty consistent I prefer to play something in the CB/MB category because I like the looks and feel.

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Given the same loft for loft and center-face contact there's usually not enough difference to fret over except maybe a little lower ball flight with the blade. 

 

Back in the day I went from playing MP-14's to Z-101's simply because I'd won them and I really liked the Endo forging. I couldn't tell much difference in performance. About 3 years later I went to J33 Blades and then J40 CB's. Both were fantastic irons and again Endo forged. I can honestly say had the J40 been available to the masses in a blade I would've played it, but there was no performance degradation from playing the J40CB or the Z-101. 

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I recently made the change from Srixon ZX7s to Miura Blades. I can say personally, that this was game changer for me. The added spin I am getting with the Miura's has greatly tightened my dispersion. Have been posting lower scores because of it. I think it is more in the eyes of the beholder. Each swing is different and will benefit from different style clubs. I suggest to get fit and truly see what gets you the numbers you are looking for. Fairways and greens...not always about pure carry distance. 

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I play at an 11, but that started trending down toward the end of the season..  I did not see scores increase when using my Blueprints vs my gamers, Zx7.  Mishits on the Blueprints were worse than the Zx7, but it all had to do with what I did after a mishit.  If I'm 20 yards short with my BPs or 10 yards short with Zx7, I still need to execute the following shot after a mishit to score.  I only played the BPs up to 7i though.  I like the look of the BPs much more, but do feel more comfortable with Zx7 7i and up.  I do plan to play the BPs more this year to see if my scores are impacted over a long period of time.

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      • 81 replies
    • 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2022 AT&T Byron Nelson - Monday #1
      2022 AT&T Byron Nelson - Monday #2
      2022 AT&T Byron Nelson - Monday #3
      2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson - Tuesday #1
      2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson - Tuesday #2
      2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
       
      John Murphy - WITB - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Cooper Dossey - WITB - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Jason Day WITB – 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Justin Leonard - WITB - 2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson
      J.J. Killeen - North Texas PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson
      Patrick Flavin - WITB - 2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      Patrick Flavin's custom Cameron putter - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Odyssey "Texas Wedge" putter covers - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Ping PLD graphite putter shaft - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Maverick McNealy's custom (3rd iteration) Callaway Apex MB - 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
      Odyssey/Toulon custom Daytona putter - 2022 AT&T Bryon Nelson
      Justin Thomas' new Scotty Cameron T5 prototype putter (with custom neck) – 2022 AT&T Byron Nelson
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 17 replies
    • 2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #1
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #2
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #3
       
       
      WITB Albums 
       
      Eugenio Chacarra - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Larkin Gross - Mid-Atlantic PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Billy Hurley - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Max McGreevy - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Cameron putters - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Oddyssey Putters - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies

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