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Do Blades negatively impact performance? Or is it all in our heads?


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4 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

 

Plus, I've never been to a grass driving range where I've seen someone and thought--that guy needs a sharper leading edge, less bounce and a more narrow sole. That's just not really someone you ever run into, especially with today's elite golfers who are looking to bow that lead wrist and hit their 6-iron 200+ yards. 

 

 

what is bowing the lead wrist and why does it matter?

 

I don't hit my 6-iron 200+: 185 is my target distance and pretty standard distance for me (with cavity back MP20 MMC irons....)

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4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

I find it interesting that a lot of lower single digit handicap golfers that I play with, myself including, have all gone the route of something that offers up more forgiveness.  On the same lines, seen more guys who shoot in the 80's this year who had blades in the bag.  

 

The better players I know usually have player's CBs, but to be honest, so do the lesser ball-strikers. I just don't see blades around that much at all anymore. They've all hit Ebay at this point, LOL. Fact is, the new generation(s) just aren't interested.

 

And again, I like the perimeter weighting for the consistent feel and vibration dampening. To me, they react and play like a blade but they feel more consistent. It's a win-win for me.  

Edited by MelloYello
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9 hours ago, morgan1819 said:

While I see more and more pros going to combo sets and hybrids ...

 

there will always be insecure internet golf guy who gets some strange satisfaction by posting that he plays a full set of blades.  seems to be a staple of this site in particular.

 

just be aware there a lots of guys out there that will beat you by 8 shots or more playing i210's and g425 hybrids.

 

 

 

 

This. I’ve been debating of adding blades (as someone who fluctuates between 7-9 handicap at mid 80s 7-iron swing speed) to my bag in 8-PW just because I’ve never played with blades and am being influenced on many posters here and articles stating how blades are more controlling and have more narrow dispersion and go where you want them to go when struck well, especially in short irons.
 

Full disclosure before I continue, I’ve never played with a blade on the course, only have hit the 7-iron in Trackman bay and on the range. I’ve hit them pretty well, they feel good when struck well (never had that YouTube influencer moment where I melt into the floor and overly gush how buttery they are….but yeah, they feel really nice). I also did some more research on tour pro usage of blades or at least a combo into at least mid/short irons. I only found that 4 players (Rory, DJ, Louie, and Hideki) out of the top 15 players in the world are using blades with zero of them in combo sets in mid to short irons. Outside of using blades for pure enjoyment, I’m still trying to comprehend if the top players in the world aren’t using these, why do a lot of WRXers (and there are a lot) here seem to make statements how they can’t play cavity backs because of fliers, turf interaction, etc. and are constantly putting blades in their bag in either full or combo sets when a new product launches? Sorry, I’m getting a chuckle imagining these same guys when they try to tell the same thing to players like Rahm, Brooks, JT, Morikowa, Bryson, etc. about how awesome blades are compared to cavity backs. 
 

I guess 11 out of those top 15 players and their coaches (including the #1 and #2 player in the world) that don’t use blades maybe onto something. 🤔

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I 100% think blades can negatively impact performance. If you are not a good ball striker and aren't hitting the sweet spot a lot your shots are going to go nowhere. I played blades for a little bit this year and I actually really liked them, they were incredibly soft and they look so good behind the ball. However, on the occasion where I would hit it out of the toe, the ball would go 20-30 yards shorter then had I hit it in the sweet spot. I cannot say I've experienced that much of a drop-off with even some forged players irons.

 

I definitely think the whole "if you're not on tour or you aren't a 0 handicap, you aren't good enough to play blades" is pretty bullxxxx and I realistically think if you're a single digit handicapper and love the look of blades you can 100% play them. No golfer is perfect so you just need to get used to having more severe consequences when you don't hit them perfectly

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11 hours ago, dodgyman said:


I think there’s a super easy explanation on the tour thing. If I were on tour and 1 shot could mean 100k+ or my livelihood I wouldn’t take anything to chance. If I’m having fun, I’m going to play what feels good and makes me happy.

 

1-2 shots over a season won’t affect my handicap so choosing looks and feel are a no brainer. I doubt it has any significant impact on scoring so those intangibles are more important to me.

 

{snip}

 

Having no real statistical impact on your game is not the same as no impact. I personally have seen no drop off, maybe my hcp would be 0.1 lower, but that’s just splitting hairs at that point.

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

 

This that simply a repeat of your previous observation about the Tour Pros and their "100k", yes ?

 

Anywho, the "not seeing a drop off". This is where the CB vs. blade issue really falls apart.

 

Golf shots are like snowflakes. NO 2 are exactly alike. So how can anyone possibly say "If I'd have hit a blade (or CB) exactly the same my score would've been affected (+ or -) X strokes ?

 

Correct. You can't. So anecdotal observations like "not seeing a drop off" are basically useless.

 

This is why the "veterans" around here basically stay out of these threads. There's NO WAY one side will convince the other.

 

You like your sticks, for whatever reason, by all means play them. 👍

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49 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

 

This that simply a repeat of your previous observation about the Tour Pros and their "100k", yes ?

 

Anywho, the "not seeing a drop off". This is where the CB vs. blade issue really falls apart.

 

Golf shots are like snowflakes. NO 2 are exactly alike. So how can anyone possibly say "If I'd have hit a blade (or CB) exactly the same my score would've been affected (+ or -) X strokes ?

 

Correct. You can't. So anecdotal observations like "not seeing a drop off" are basically useless.

 

This is why the "veterans" around here basically stay out of these threads. There's NO WAY one side will convince the other.

 

You like your sticks, for whatever reason, by all means play them. 👍

 

The critical insight is that people inevitably won't hit an MB and a CB the same. The feel is different, so our approach to hitting them will naturally become different over time. Give two identical golfers a set of MBs and CBs respectively and my feeling is you'll return a few years later to find they are different people. I suspect it's much more likely the MB user turns into someone much more obsessed with practicing and perfecting their contact. 

 

This is why I keep reiterating that the difference in feel is the difference. Contrary to what people always assume, MBs do not necessarily have a better feel because that feel (IMHO) is merely a distraction for most people. MBs are obviously more transparent but IMHO it's that very fact which ends up hurting the recreational golfer in the long run turning them into someone increasingly obsessed with the feeling of impact rather than the resulting placement of a golf shot. Scoring obviously cares much more about the latter. 

All that being said, I would never dissuade someone from trying blades. They're fun and it's a great phase to go through. I thoroughly enjoyed it even though I ended up using CBs after many seasons with MBs. I would almost insist that people do it at some point. 

.

Edited by MelloYello
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2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

 

This that simply a repeat of your previous observation about the Tour Pros and their "100k", yes ?

 

Anywho, the "not seeing a drop off". This is where the CB vs. blade issue really falls apart.

 

Golf shots are like snowflakes. NO 2 are exactly alike. So how can anyone possibly say "If I'd have hit a blade (or CB) exactly the same my score would've been affected (+ or -) X strokes ?

 

Correct. You can't. So anecdotal observations like "not seeing a drop off" are basically useless.

 

This is why the "veterans" around here basically stay out of these threads. There's NO WAY one side will convince the other.

 

You like your sticks, for whatever reason, by all means play them. 👍

 

Obviously, you can't play the same shot twice, but you can test shots over hundreds or even thousands of samples and work out the statistical differences. In my experience I've yet to see any iron produce fundamental differences where it's a no-brainer that there are gains in strokes. While added distance is a difference, considering gapping and set makeup at the distances I need to hit, I've yet to see anything that shows me significant gain especially as it relates to scoring.

 

These gains do exist, I switched from 4i to 4hy because I saw a huge difference, I also switched my 5i to a hollow head because at my clubhead speed I see a dropoff so it's not "just in my head."

 

I have been working like crazy on my swing for the past 2 years, I've probably gained 7 yards and improved accuracy. My handicap dropped by 2, with real huge improvements, I just don't see evidence that a small statistical difference is going to have a lot of effect on my scoring if such drastic improvements give me a few strokes. Feeling confident in the club I have, liking the look, loving the feel, that matters. And this can be anything, for some the look/feel is better with a blade but for others it's a cb, and for others it's a shovel.

 

So yeah, long story short, I think it's all in your head.

Edited by dodgyman
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5 hours ago, dodgyman said:

 

Obviously, you can't play the same shot twice, but you can test shots over hundreds or even thousands of samples and work out the statistical differences. In my experience I've yet to see any iron produce fundamental differences where it's a no-brainer that there are gains in strokes. While added distance is a difference, considering gapping and set makeup at the distances I need to hit, I've yet to see anything that shows me significant gain especially as it relates to scoring.

 

These gains do exist, I switched from 4i to 4hy because I saw a huge difference, I also switched my 5i to a hollow head because at my clubhead speed I see a dropoff so it's not "just in my head."

 

I have been working like crazy on my swing for the past 2 years, I've probably gained 7 yards and improved accuracy. My handicap dropped by 2, with real huge improvements, I just don't see evidence that a small statistical difference is going to have a lot of effect on my scoring if such drastic improvements give me a few strokes. Feeling confident in the club I have, liking the look, loving the feel, that matters. And this can be anything, for some the look/feel is better with a blade but for others it's a cb, and for others it's a shovel.

 

So yeah, long story short, I think it's all in your head.

 

It must be me because I'm confused again.

 

You earlier said "I personally have seen no drop off, maybe my hcp would be 0.1 lower".

 

And now this. "These gains do exist". Now I get that you're comparing a 4HYBRID vs. a 4 IRON yet you can't see the difference between a 6 GI and a 6 blade ? :classic_blink:

 

As for those thousands of shots, you admit no 2 shots are the same. Given that, why would keeping those "stats" and calculating anything about them produce any evidence of anything ?

 

So, sans meaningful data, your experience is just anecdotal; as everybody else's is.

 

MY experience is that there are countless times I've mishit a shot with a GI where, had I hit a blade and made the same mishit I KNOW I'd have been worse off.

 

I suppose there were a few times where I've mishit a GI and sent it over the back of a green where, had I had the same mishit with a blade I would have been safe, or even tight, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

And much "measuring" of difference would generally be in fractions of a stroke, so how does one figure out that difference ?

 

Fact is, if I mishit my GI and barely clear a bunker or a penalty area, or directional forgiveness keeps me IN bounds rather than OUT, and the equivalent strike with a blade wouldn't, THOSE are meaningful differences.

 

And before anyone objects, yes, I know THESE are judgement calls.

 

I'm not minimizing the importance of for looks, feel and confidence; they are important. But that's not what we're talking about here.

 

And now I'll go back into hiding as most of us have gone 'round and 'round this too many times. hide.gif👍

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1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

And now this. "These gains do exist". Now I get that you're comparing a 4HYBRID vs. a 4 IRON yet you can't see the difference between a 6 GI and a 6 blade ? :classic_blink:

 

As for those thousands of shots, you admit no 2 shots are the same. Given that, why would keeping those "stats" and calculating anything about them produce any evidence of anything ?

 

So, sans meaningful data, your experience is just anecdotal; as everybody else's is.

 

MY experience is that there are countless times I've mishit a shot with a GI where, had I hit a blade and made the same mishit I KNOW I'd have been worse off.

 


I'm basing my data off of trackman sessions. I've often gone through the "maybe I should try something more 'forgiving' to see if I see gains" and done sessions over 30-40 shots each, not ideal but a lot. Sometimes I have to compare a 6i with a 7i because of lofts, and I've yet to see anything so statistically different where I feel I can make a strong claim. Is this enough, don't know, but when is it?

Shotscope tells me I hit 569 shots over 50+ rounds with my irons last year. 50-60 shots with two clubs should be very representative, not practical but several 30-40 shot sessions is pretty good. The point I'm trying to make which might not be getting across, is that even if there is some loss and let's assume there is, this is so small compared to the mental side which was the OP's question. I would claim that everything is "in your head" unless you could clearly prove to yourself that it's not.

 

It would be nice not to be cursed by the alure of small clubs, I could love them, feel confident, and chase every potential micro-improvement. I would recommend anyone who loves GIs to keep playing them. I'm just disputing that you're somehow fooling yourself and leaving significant strokes on the table.

Edited by dodgyman
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I usually stay away from participating in the many MB vs. CB vs. SGI threads for what I assume will be obvious reasons but as the OP seems to be posing a well mannered and fairly legitimate question I'll try to add my two cents.

Anecdotal experiences, perceived "feel", and personal preferences aside could someone not set up an Iron Byron and a Trackman and actually measure the true differences between MB and SGI irons?  Has this never been done??  One could not only test and compare center strikes but a variety of "error" shots such as toe and heel shots, pulls, pushes, thin shots, fat shots, etc.  To my way of thinking this is the only practical way to actually physically prove one type of club works better than another.  An actual scientifically performed comparison test as it were.  I'd be very interested to see data like that.

For the record I'm a somewhat serious 54yo recreational golfer and while I don't track my handicap I'd guess I'd be maybe a 12 to 15 and yes, I play MB's.  Scratch SB-1's 4-pw in the big bounce/killed leading edge version to be specific.  I've tried my share of other shapes and designs but I seem to play my best with these irons.  Go figure!

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1 hour ago, dodgyman said:


I'm basing my data off of trackman sessions. I've often gone through the "maybe I should try something more 'forgiving' to see if I see gains" and done sessions over 30-40 shots each, not ideal but a lot. Sometimes I have to compare a 6i with a 7i because of lofts, and I've yet to see anything so statistically different where I feel I can make a strong claim. Is this enough, don't know, but when is it?

Shotscope tells me I hit 569 shots over 50+ rounds with my irons last year. 50-60 shots with two clubs should be very representative, not practical but several 30-40 shot sessions is pretty good. The point I'm trying to make which might not be getting across, is that even if there is some loss and let's assume there is, this is so small compared to the mental side which was the OP's question. I would claim that everything is "in your head" unless you could clearly prove to yourself that it's not.

 

It would be nice not to be cursed by the alure of small clubs, I could love them, feel confident, and chase every potential micro-improvement. I would recommend anyone who loves GIs to keep playing them. I'm just disputing that you're somehow fooling yourself and leaving significant strokes on the table.

 

OK, OK, just 1 more.

 

I gave you MY scenarios which I believe clearly show that GIs are better,,,,,,,, for ME.

 

You're convinced that your 4 hybrid, a GI if you will, is much better than your 4 iron, you can't prove anything to me that proves your blades are better (nor can I provide any proof that YOU will accept) but NOW you recommend that anyone who loves GIs should keep playing them BUT they're fooling themselves and leaving strokes significant strokes on the  table.

 

So before you couldn't tell and/or it was insignificant. Fair enough.

 

But now you believe that BLADES will save you strokes significant strokes over GIs. Well, except for your 4 iron. :classic_biggrin:

 

OK my friend, no worries. I think I've got it now. As they say in Thailand, "Up to you" 👍

 

 

 

Edited by nsxguy

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37 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, OK, just 1 more.

 

I gave you MY scenarios which I believe clearly show that GIs are better,,,,,,,, for ME.

 

You're convinced that your 4 hybrid, a GI if you will, is much better than your 4 iron, you can't prove anything to me that proves your blades are better (nor can I provide any proof that YOU will accept) but NOW you recommend that anyone who loves GIs should keep playing them BUT they're fooling themselves and leaving strokes significant strokes on the  table.

 

So before you couldn't tell and/or it was insignificant. Fair enough.

 

But now you believe that BLADES will save you strokes significant strokes over GIs. Well, except for your 4 iron. :classic_biggrin:

 

OK my friend, no worries. I think I've got it now. As they say in Thailand, "Up to you" 👍

 

 

 

K, now I don't understand. I do think your GIs are better for you because you feel comfortable, and I don't think anyone can show you that a blade is statistically better. Never made this claim, never will.

 

I also don't recall ever saying blades are better, all I said is that from my testing they're statistically near equal, and that you need a whole lot more than near equal to have any significant impact on score. I also said you can see such changes, and when you do it is foolish to ignore, and I haven't.  

 

The question was "do blades negatively impact performance or is it all in your head" which implies you need to prove that GIs are significantly and statistically more performant than blades, not the other way around. Equal isn't good enough.

Edited by dodgyman
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8 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, OK, just 1 more.

 

I gave you MY scenarios which I believe clearly show that GIs are better,,,,,,,, for ME.

 

You're convinced that your 4 hybrid, a GI if you will, is much better than your 4 iron, you can't prove anything to me that proves your blades are better (nor can I provide any proof that YOU will accept) but NOW you recommend that anyone who loves GIs should keep playing them BUT they're fooling themselves and leaving strokes significant strokes on the  table.

 

So before you couldn't tell and/or it was insignificant. Fair enough.

 

But now you believe that BLADES will save you strokes significant strokes over GIs. Well, except for your 4 iron. :classic_biggrin:

 

OK my friend, no worries. I think I've got it now. As they say in Thailand, "Up to you" 👍

 

 

 

 

My MP20 4 iron has been rotating in and out of my bag, swapping with a 915 4 hybrid.  It is probably the most stark contrast of this discussion.  I'm not sure which club plays better for me.  One downside to the hybrid is that I can hit some missile draws that go 10-20 yards further.  Misses are certainly not as penalized, but I'd say a good shot lands in a pretty wide 40 foot radius around the hole, and I have minor mishits more often.  The increase in misses is maybe shaft or club weight related.  There are also days I find it hard to time.  Other days it feels automatic, drops from the clouds and stops. 

 

The MP20 4 iron has a very consistent flight, spin, and dispersion, but anything off the toe or thin will be 10-20 yards short.  Good shots however land within a closer 30 foot radius.  These numbers come from a massive amount of indoor golf I've been playing this winter.  I bought the hybrid thinking it would be a no brainer to switch out, but lately I've lost a bit of confidence in it and have switched back to the blade.  I tried the MP20 MMC and MP20 HMB in 4 iron and my dispersion wasn't better with either of them.  I would have comboed but neither I nor my fitter felt I'd gain anything.     

 

I mention this to point out that things aren't so cut and dry.  Everything feels like a compromise to me.  Find what works for you and go with it.  Different strokes for different folks.     

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30 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

My MP20 4 iron has been rotating in and out of my bag, swapping with a 915 4 hybrid.  It is probably the most stark contrast of this discussion.  I'm not sure which club plays better for me.  One downside to the hybrid is that I can hit some missile draws that go 10-20 yards further.  Misses are certainly not as penalized, but I'd say a good shot lands in a pretty wide 40 foot radius around the hole, and I have minor mishits more often.  The increase in misses is maybe shaft or club weight related.  There are also days I find it hard to time.  Other days it feels automatic, drops from the clouds and stops. 

 

The MP20 4 iron has a very consistent flight, spin, and dispersion, but anything off the toe or thin will be 10-20 yards short.  Good shots however land within a closer 30 foot radius.  These numbers come from a massive amount of indoor golf I've been playing this winter.  I bought the hybrid thinking it would be a no brainer to switch out, but lately I've lost a bit of confidence in it and have switched back to the blade.  I tried the MP20 MMC and MP20 HMB in 4 iron and my dispersion wasn't better with either of them.  I would have comboed but neither I nor my fitter felt I'd gain anything.     

 

I mention this to point out that things aren't so cut and dry.  Everything feels like a compromise to me.  Find what works for you and go with it.  Different strokes for different folks.     

Yep.  That’s what they don’t tell you with a hybrid.  I own 2. I’m not taking out of my butt. But ( 😂) dispersion with a well fit iron is tighter for someone who can launch that iron. Meaning is fast enough. And that really is a low low bar with the correct shaft.  
 

hybirds help those with contact issues , and very low speed.  I’ve just had the same love hate relationship with one that you have. Sometimes I’m saved by one. But when you hit that flyer that goes 20 more , you just cannot account for that.   You can account for the irons short miss. But you can’t tell when the low spin bomb is coming from the hybrid.  So it just depends.  I’ve praised  both in my times.  Recently in fact.   It’s a valid concern 

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37 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

My MP20 4 iron has been rotating in and out of my bag, swapping with a 915 4 hybrid.  It is probably the most stark contrast of this discussion.  I'm not sure which club plays better for me.  One downside to the hybrid is that I can hit some missile draws that go 10-20 yards further.  Misses are certainly not as penalized, but I'd say a good shot lands in a pretty wide 40 foot radius around the hole, and I have minor mishits more often.  The increase in misses is maybe shaft or club weight related.  There are also days I find it hard to time.  Other days it feels automatic, drops from the clouds and stops. 

I think you make an excellent point. Better on paper and lower scores are not the same thing. I track all my stats with shotscope and you can’t tell from my scoring when I swapped the hybrid, there was no tangible affect on scoring. I’d personally love to see someone’s round data before and after an iron change with tangible improvement to scoring, I’m sure it happens occasionally but it’s probably an exception. I’ve changed a lot of clubs and know my scores generally stay similar. At least now I’m open about it and know why I’m doing it, feel aesthetics and comfort being key.

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The existence & performance of hybrids on the LPGA clearly shows they can be incredible tools for people who regularly use long-irons for approach shots. It just takes practice.  

 

I've long maintained that if we who carry 3-, 4- and 5-irons actually had to hit those off the grass on a regular basis, we'd see more players select hybrids. 

 

But thankfully, we don't have to do that. It's easy to pass on hybrids when your only long iron shots are coming on par-3 and par-4 tee boxes. I only occasionally hit my 4- and 5-iron towards a Par-5 green if I've hit a killer driver. That's the only conceivable spot for me.

 

So yeah, I predictably prefer long irons but there are way more golfers out there who can only hit their 6-iron maybe 160. For them, the idea of hitting an iron 180+ yards is out of the question. For them, learning to use a hybrid is 1000x more practical. 

 

So we can't act like it's an apples to oranges comparison about skill. Lydia Ko uses hybrids because it's smart. If I were hitting that many 5-irons into greens I might be, too! 😉

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8 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

The existence & performance of hybrids on the LPGA clearly shows they can be incredible tools for people who regularly use long-irons for approach shots. It just takes practice.  

 

I've long maintained that if we who carry 3-, 4- and 5-irons actually had to hit those off the grass on a regular basis, we'd see more players select hybrids. 

 

But thankfully, we don't have to do that. It's easy to pass on hybrids when your only long iron shots are coming on par-3 and par-4 tee boxes. I only occasionally hit my 4- and 5-iron towards a Par-5 green if I've hit a killer driver. That's the only conceivable spot for me.

 

So yeah, I predictably prefer long irons but there are way more golfers out there who can only hit their 6-iron maybe 160. For them, the idea of hitting an iron 180+ yards is out of the question. For them, learning to use a hybrid is 1000x more practical. 

 

So we can't act like it's an apples to oranges comparison about skill. Lydia Ko uses hybrids because it's smart. If I were hitting that many 5-irons into greens I might be, too! 😉

 

I think a lot of the lpga ladies are carrying hybrids and high lofted woods to help get the ball up in the air.  Lydia Ko is probably maxing out around 100 mph(259 yard average drive per LPGA.com).  At that club head speed she probably has a difficult time getting a 4 or modern strong lofted 5 iron to fly correctly.  I'd also add that they swing fast, but may not have the strength to power through a slightly fat shot or heavy rough.  A hybrid or wood is going to perform better for them under these circumstances. 

 

My average driver swing speed is 112mph and my 4 iron or hybrid is a 205 - 210 yard club, so definitely not apples to apples.  I do, however, play very long courses - especially indoors.  I've hit a lot of long irons, woods, and hybrids this winter.  That's probably why I've been experimenting so much with that side of my bag.       

 

I totally agree that someone hitting a 6 iron 160 would benefit from additional hybrids.  My uncle seems to add another hybrid every few years as he ages and I'm sure I'll be doing the same at some point. 

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Taking a look at some lady WITB and tour stats, I'm a touch longer off the tee than Nelly Korda.  Our bags at the moment are pretty similar. 

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/666470/nelly-korda-witb-2021-december/

 

I have muscle backs to her T100's and a 4 hybrid instead of a 5. 

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Not everyone wants to or should drive a Corvette. But for some people it's the only answer. Personal choice.

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37 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

Taking a look at some lady WITB and tour stats, I'm a touch longer off the tee than Nelly Korda.  Our bags at the moment are pretty similar. 

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/666470/nelly-korda-witb-2021-december/

 

I have muscle backs to her T100's and a 4 hybrid instead of a 5. 

 

I found it very strange she put that 25o hybrid in the bag. I think it appeared somewhat recently. When you're #1 in the world you don't do a lot of tweaking to the bag obviously but there's always some little thing players like to experiment with and as we all know that's one place in the bag you can toy with stuff and not hurt yourself badly. 

 

She's such a great iron player though it surprised me. She doesn't lack height on her shots and she already had a 7w so I figured she'd probably prefer to stick with the full assortment of longer irons. Heck, she probably does prefer that. Maybe she's just pushing the envelop and seeing how far up in the bag she can take the fairway/hybrid thing and not lose control. 

 

Like her I too play a 7w and I love it. The 7w is the new 5w. Modern clubs all reduce spin so extra loft isn't a bad thing. There's an inevitable point where you have to switch from a fairway metal to an iron though and that can be an noticeable discontinuity for many players. The instinct can be to "smooth" that out with a hybrid. 

 

I tried 24-25o hybrids in that way and found it wasn't worth it, but again I wasn't playing championship courses that demanded I hit a lot of 200-yd approach shots.  

 

At the elite levels, being able to make birdie from 200-yds is actually a real difference-maker. So it could be that Nelly has done the analysis and simply concluded that she has to master the 5-hybrid to open up more birdie looks from long range. 

 

After all, it's not always about picking the clubs you like. Often it's the case that you need to learn to hit certain clubs because golf demands it. 

 

.

Edited by MelloYello
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I will say if you are terrible, blades will make it worse 9 times out of 10. But it totally depends on the individual.

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15 hours ago, Swingingk said:


I usually stay away from participating in the many MB vs. CB vs. SGI threads for what I assume will be obvious reasons but as the OP seems to be posing a well mannered and fairly legitimate question I'll try to add my two cents.

Anecdotal experiences, perceived "feel", and personal preferences aside could someone not set up an Iron Byron and a Trackman and actually measure the true differences between MB and SGI irons?  Has this never been done??  One could not only test and compare center strikes but a variety of "error" shots such as toe and heel shots, pulls, pushes, thin shots, fat shots, etc.  To my way of thinking this is the only practical way to actually physically prove one type of club works better than another.  An actual scientifically performed comparison test as it were.  I'd be very interested to see data like that.

For the record I'm a somewhat serious 54yo recreational golfer and while I don't track my handicap I'd guess I'd be maybe a 12 to 15 and yes, I play MB's.  Scratch SB-1's 4-pw in the big bounce/killed leading edge version to be specific.  I've tried my share of other shapes and designs but I seem to play my best with these irons.  Go figure!

I'm sure it has been DONE, but as far as Google knows, it has not been PUBLISHED. I have searched many times over the years for just this type of data. I have HEARD that robot testing was done by manufacturers. I have also HEARD that data showed that club X was better than club Y. But I have NEVER seen numbers from one of these tests. 

 

There are countless independent reviewers that have done their own tests, but that is simply more anecdotal evidence and no REAL strike point comparison. Until one of us can get our hands on a swing robot and do this test, I don't think we'll ever know the answer. Which, incidentally, is probably right where the OEMs want us.

 

BT

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3 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

I found it very strange she put that 25o hybrid in the bag. I think it appeared somewhat recently. When you're #1 in the world you don't do a lot of tweaking to the bag obviously but there's always some little thing players like to experiment with and as we all know that's one place in the bag you can toy with stuff and not hurt yourself badly. 

 

She's such a great iron player though it surprised me. She doesn't lack height on her shots and she already had a 7w so I figured she'd probably prefer to stick with the full assortment of longer irons. Heck, she probably does prefer that. Maybe she's just pushing the envelop and seeing how far up in the bag she can take the fairway/hybrid thing and not lose control. 

 

Like her I too play a 7w and I love it. The 7w is the new 5w. Modern clubs all reduce spin so extra loft isn't a bad thing. There's an inevitable point where you have to switch from a fairway metal to an iron though and that can be an noticeable discontinuity for many players. The instinct can be to "smooth" that out with a hybrid. 

 

I tried 24-25o hybrids in that way and found it wasn't worth it, but again I wasn't playing championship courses that demanded I hit a lot of 200-yd approach shots.  

 

At the elite levels, being able to make birdie from 200-yds is actually a real difference-maker. So it could be that Nelly has done the analysis and simply concluded that she has to master the 5-hybrid to open up more birdie looks from long range. 

 

After all, it's not always about picking the clubs you like. Often it's the case that you need to learn to hit certain clubs because golf demands it. 

 

.

She stuffed that hybrid to a few feet just A little while ago on a par 5 ( I’m pretty sure it was par 5).  After starting plus 4 she’s now -4.  

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1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I'm sure it has been DONE, but as far as Google knows, it has not been PUBLISHED. I have searched many times over the years for just this type of data. I have HEARD that robot testing was done by manufacturers. I have also HEARD that data showed that club X was better than club Y. But I have NEVER seen numbers from one of these tests. 

 

...  Which, incidentally, is probably right where the OEMs want us.

 

Yup.

 

All we get is anecdotes and confirmation bias.

 

It's unimaginable that these sorts of tests have not been done. And probably done properly controlling for shaft flex, length, lie and loft (which almost nobody in the anecdotal testing realm ever really does.) If anybody tried doing such a test without controlling for those parameters, they're qualifications as even the most junior engineer would be highly in doubt.

 

But we get nothing other than marketing heaped on top of (decades worth) of opinion. 

 

 

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Isn't all design going to ultimately be done via FEA anyhow? C'mon...these guys know the parameters they're designing for. 

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i think its just in the head thingy for most people and perceived pro wanna be look

i play mp20 and mp69, and shoot scores around 74-94 depending on the day

i tend to work the ball all the time and if i hit bad shot with blade, i just think to my self that i get to practice my short game

 

big CB with longer blade tend to be harder to shape and more eratic as you are money confident with the bigger face

offset tends to go left

 

play with whatever you want really, unless you're playing with money

 

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5 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

 

Yup.

 

All we get is anecdotes and confirmation bias.

 

It's unimaginable that these sorts of tests have not been done. And probably done properly controlling for shaft flex, length, lie and loft (which almost nobody in the anecdotal testing realm ever really does.) If anybody tried doing such a test without controlling for those parameters, they're qualifications as even the most junior engineer would be highly in doubt.

 

But we get nothing other than marketing heaped on top of (decades worth) of opinion. 

 

 

I agree that the parameters would have to be tightly controlled to make such comparisons valid and I agree with Redneck too in that these tests have undoubtedly already been done by the OEM's.  That latter point is the crux of the matter:  if tests such as these did indeed show a significant difference between designs the results would be immediately shared with us as a very powerful marketing tool, which they are not.  This does tell us something, but obviously not everything. 

 

Personal experience and anecdotal references are of course both valuable and valid in their own right and should not be ignored.  I would agree with the many that suggest there is value in perimeter weighting and SGI technology but how much?  Most experienced golfers will admit that GI tech definitely helps in the longer irons, but from the 6 on down it doesn't help much if any.  This is likely what the OEM's found with their testing too but selling more clubs is their game so they apply the hype to entire sets.  

 

So yeah... combo sets are probably the real answer.  Blades for performance in the shorter scoring irons and CB's of some kind in the longer irons for a bit of help getting the ball out there.  No big discovery there I'm afraid.  Haha!

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, MelloYello said:

Isn't all design going to ultimately be done via FEA anyhow? C'mon...these guys know the parameters they're designing for. 

 

Check out the recent GolfWRX article with Bob Vokey detailing his reliance on feedback from pros.  I would be floored if manufacturers aren't using elite player feedback in their blades and forged CB's.  FEA is a tool in engineering, but not your only avenue.  You aren't learning much about proper offset, bounce, blade length, sole width/form, leading edge, and feel in FEA.    

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