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Why do I putt better with a "wristy" putting stroke?


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Just throwing the question out there really - I use the Blast Motion device to look at my putting stroke and whatever grip (cross handed, reverse overlap, claw, etc) my stats and hole percentages are always better when I use a flowing, wristy stroke.

Face angle delivery average is 0.1 degree open with the wristy stroke but between 0.7 and 1.0 degree open with a shoulder dominated stroke. Tempo seems to be better as does path. Why is this?

I've considered all types of putters to try and get the advantages that I can - surely it's the simplest stroke in golf isn't it - a short swing where you've only got to start the ball on line with the right pace for it to go in (on a flat putt), so why is it so hard to do it consistently?

 

I was just interested in the debate really? Does it really matter how the stroke looks as long as it works? Am I too concerned with aesthetics and doing what works on tour when really it should be what works for me at my local course? 

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I don't have numbers to back it up but I have felt what you're describing. That said, I was a terrible putter, LOL. 

 

I used to keep my eyes way inside the ball which created a very arcing stroke. I'm talking WAY TOO MUCH. The result was a ton of right hand dominance / face rotation. Putting that way, I had to embrace it and letting the wrists be active was sometimes good. 

 

But it didn't make it right. 

 

Once I fixed my setup I realized much more why putting instruction so often provides the same cliches: eyes over/behind the ball, keep the shaft in line with the fore-arms, grip through the palms, light grip pressure, rock the shoulders, etc. 

 

Coming from where I was, my goal is now to minimize my arc as much as possible while keeping the face square to the arc. That is *NOT* going to be done with excess wrist movement. 

 

In the end, you should not follow what "works" if it breaks with convention. What works this week won't work next week. Conventional putting is conventional for a reason. There are a lot of people on this site who will tell you all about their fixes but for the love of God do the conventional stuff correctly before you try reinventing the wheel. 

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3 minutes ago, BrianMcG said:

I think people get way to robotic in their putting. All the “gurus” of putting, Stockton, Faxon, Utley etc. seem to need to get players to feel more to improve their putting and usually suggest more wrist action, not less. 
 

Watch Crenshaw putt. I think he’s the best, and he definitely isn’t trying to restrict anything. 

 

You have to be careful with that advice though. It's only true if you're talking about someone whose technique is already very polished. Most golfers are a mess and should thus seek to mechanize their putting before anything else.  

 

The majority of putters I see on the practice green have fundamental setup / stroke issues. That stuff has to be addressed first before we go getting too artistic with it. 

Edited by MelloYello
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1 minute ago, MelloYello said:

 

You have to be careful with that advice though. It's only true if you're talking about someone whose technique is already very polished. Most golfers are a mess and should thus seek to mechanize their putting before anything else.  

 

The majority of putters I see on the practice green have fundamental setup / stroke issues. That stuff has to be addressed first before we go getting too artistic with it. 


Lol, well true. I’m not suggestion if you have a crappy set up and stroke, adding a wrist motion is going to fix it. 

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Wrist motion doesn't have to be undesirable, and when you are dialed in like you saw in your testing it can be quite consistent and repeatable. The margin for error (for most people) seems to go up when you add more variables such as a wristy putting stroke v armlock or wrist lock style when you are not dialed in however. YMMV , everyone seems to be quite different with putting. 

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36 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

You have to be careful with that advice though. It's only true if you're talking about someone whose technique is already very polished. Most golfers are a mess and should thus seek to mechanize their putting before anything else.  

 

The majority of putters I see on the practice green have fundamental setup / stroke issues. That stuff has to be addressed first before we go getting too artistic with it. 

Totally disagree. Setup isn’t the same as “mechanize”. Go watch kids putt, you’d screw them all up before they ever had a chance. 

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15 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Short answer is because it’s the correct way to do it.  You have loose  muscles vs tense and that is what feel is made up of. Lose everything , putter grip in the fingers etc.    The best putters are feel putters.  Spieth , jack , tiger ,Crenshaw , faxon , Duval and on and on.  None are robotic.  Yet you can name a million robots who struggle from day one.  Get hot occasionally and then struggle some more.  
 

think “ roll the ball”. Not “ hit the ball”. 

But …. I’ve found I put a better roll on the ball with the feel of a little hit in my stroke (without a stroke that is a “pop” and probably looks pretty smooth)! 
 

Went to a slightly lighter head, slightly livelier shaft to get more feel in my putting. Worked for me, not saying it’s for everyone. 😀

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5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

But …. I’ve found I put a better roll on the ball with the feel of a little hit in my stroke (without a stroke that is a “pop” and probably looks pretty smooth)! 
 

Went to a slightly lighter head, slightly livelier shaft to get more feel in my putting. Worked for me, not saying it’s for everyone. 😀

I have a bit of pop or hit in mine as well. But no recoil.  I think that’s where the issue comes in.  Sneds does it. And it’s fine. But it would take some real dedication to own that and not have it have it turn into a deceleration/ block situation.    For me the keys are to keep the putter head low , and just stay down and make solid contact.  I only focus on speed.  Contact quality is speed control 

 

I agree lively feeling shaft and lighter head is a plus.  

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25 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I have a bit of pop or hit in mine as well. But no recoil.  I think that’s where the issue comes in.  Sneds does it. And it’s fine. But it would take some real dedication to own that and not have it have it turn into a deceleration/ block situation.    For me the keys are to keep the putter head low , and just stay down and make solid contact.  I only focus on speed.  Contact quality is speed control 

 

I agree lively feeling shaft and lighter head is a plus.  

Yep, I feel a little release but don’t force one. 

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1 hour ago, dai3015 said:

Just throwing the question out there really - I use the Blast Motion device to look at my putting stroke and whatever grip (cross handed, reverse overlap, claw, etc) my stats and hole percentages are always better when I use a flowing, wristy stroke.

Face angle delivery average is 0.1 degree open with the wristy stroke but between 0.7 and 1.0 degree open with a shoulder dominated stroke. Tempo seems to be better as does path. Why is this?

I've considered all types of putters to try and get the advantages that I can - surely it's the simplest stroke in golf isn't it - a short swing where you've only got to start the ball on line with the right pace for it to go in (on a flat putt), so why is it so hard to do it consistently?

 

I was just interested in the debate really? Does it really matter how the stroke looks as long as it works? Am I too concerned with aesthetics and doing what works on tour when really it should be what works for me at my local course? 

What is the toe-hang of your putter? If you need a "wristy" stroke to help square the face perhaps you just need a bit more toe-hang. 

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41 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Totally disagree. Setup isn’t the same as “mechanize”. Go watch kids putt, you’d screw them all up before they ever had a chance. 

 

Let me frame my perspective of internet putting threads: 

 

People suck at putting (usually because they have no idea what they're doing and don't practice).

They follow internal feels thinking their putting setup / mechanics are already fine (which they obviously aren't). 

People hop on the internet and share ideas about how to revolutionize the art of putting. 

Guys who can't make a straight 5-footer are told it's all mental (thanks Dr. Rotella). 

Go back to Step 1. 

 

If you want to have a go at putting without knowing what the fundamentals are, be my guest, but the source of most bad putting is exactly that.

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Id have to say you're likely just slightly opening the face going back without realizing it and it stays there. With the wristy stroke, you know you're opening it so you close the face on the "downswing". The former is where a lot of guys miss putts low on downhill right breaking putts(left of lefties).

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1 minute ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Id have to say you're likely just slightly opening the face going back without realizing it and it stays there. With the wristy stroke, you know you're opening it so you close the face on the "downswing". The former is where a lot of guys miss putts low on downhill right breaking putts(left of lefties).

 

This is correct advice. It would shock most folks to learn how little face rotation is actually happening among good putters. 

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36 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

Let me frame my perspective of internet putting threads: 

 

People suck at putting (usually because they have no idea what they're doing and don't practice).

They follow internal feels thinking their putting setup / mechanics are already fine (which they obviously aren't). 

People hop on the internet and share ideas about how to revolutionize the art of putting. 

Guys who can't make a straight 5-footer are told it's all mental (thanks Dr. Rotella). 

Go back to Step 1. 

 

If you want to have a go at putting without knowing what the fundamentals are, be my guest, but the source of most bad putting is exactly that.

Fundamentals and being mechanical are two completely different things.  

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38 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

This is correct advice. It would shock most folks to learn how little face rotation is actually happening among good putters. 

I don’t think anyone is equating using wrists while putting with massive amounts of face rotation.  It’s never been about the face. It’s always about the path. The face will close naturally if the path is correct.  
 

i won’t even try to butcher the info.  Here’s the gospel.  Mr Orr tells it as 3d shows it to be fact.  
 

 

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2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Short answer is because it’s the correct way to do it.  You have loose  muscles vs tense and that is what feel is made up of. Lose everything , putter grip in the fingers etc.    The best putters are feel putters.  Spieth , jack , tiger ,Crenshaw , faxon , Duval and on and on.  None are robotic.  Yet you can name a million robots who struggle from day one.  Get hot occasionally and then struggle some more.  
 

think “ roll the ball”. Not “ hit the ball”. 

 

I guess it depends on what you consider "wristy" as well.  I wouldn't consider the above as "wristy".  

 

Seems like OP has trouble with an open face.  Allowing the clubhead to get ahead of his hands is closing the face for him.  Seems like a band-aid more than a fundamental stroke.   

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2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t think anyone is equating using wrists while putting with massive amounts of face rotation.  It’s never been about the face. It’s always about the path. The face will close naturally if the path is correct.  
 

i won’t even try to butcher the info.  Here’s the gospel.  Mr Orr tells it as 3d shows it to be fact.  
 

 

Very well said… shaft tracks the plane / head arcs / face rotates in the plane…

 

and how to make sure the shaft tracks the plane; keeping the radius constant all the way through?… by not goofing around that radius/motion using our wrists…

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47 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Very well said… shaft tracks the plane / head arcs / face rotates in the plane…

 

and how to make sure the shaft tracks the plane; keeping the radius constant all the way through?… by not goofing around that radius/motion using our wrists…

Here’s the video that explains the wrists.  
 

The only thing clear is that nearly no person on earth putts with just their shoulders.  And the varying degree of wrist movements are as many as unique snowflakes.  
 

Orr does not teach a specific putting method exactly.  But The one thing he does not teach Is locked wrists.  That and that straight back straight though is not only a myth , it’s counter productive thought.  
 

and I’ll add. This guy brings the most receipts on the subject of putting as anybody I’ve ever talked to.  
 

and to clarify. I’m not at all talking about putting like Bobby jones .  But look at tiger as an example of the wrist movement that I’m talking about.  The right hand drill will also show you.  You can’t do that with a Locked wrist.  
 

 

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42 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Orr does not teach a specific putting method exactly.  But The one thing he does not teach Is locked wrists.  That and that straight back straight though is not only a myth , it’s counter productive thought. 

I get what you are saying - and I’m pretty sure everyone mentioning ‘not being wristy’ here speaks about pendulum like motion and not having your wrists in a cast… Orr even mentions about the ‘disaster stroke’ that comes with excessive flexion / extension of the wrists (that is usually associated with SBST thought)…

 

so let’s call it a ‘minimal wrist action’ haha DCE5E87D-0CFB-48BC-96D2-171591A4B4A3.jpeg.1e1c89caafc727c7cb5d71a4a1542652.jpeg

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23 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

I get what you are saying - and I’m pretty sure everyone mentioning ‘not being wristy’ here speaks about pendulum like motion and not having your wrists in a cast… Orr even mentions about the ‘disaster stroke’ that comes with excessive flexion / extension of the wrists (that is usually associated with SBST thought)…

 

so let’s call it a ‘minimal wrist action’ haha DCE5E87D-0CFB-48BC-96D2-171591A4B4A3.jpeg.1e1c89caafc727c7cb5d71a4a1542652.jpeg

Can't have a good discussion anymore without a few graphs 🙂

 

One really good simple thing said in here was to keep the putter head low. Simple but helps get you doing a few solid fundamentals.  

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6 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Can't have a good discussion anymore without a few graphs 🙂

 

One really good simple thing said in here was to keep the putter head low. Simple but helps get you doing a few solid fundamentals.  

How to keep the putter head low without some extra movements?

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46 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

I get what you are saying - and I’m pretty sure everyone mentioning ‘not being wristy’ here speaks about pendulum like motion and not having your wrists in a cast… Orr even mentions about the ‘disaster stroke’ that comes with excessive flexion / extension of the wrists (that is usually associated with SBST thought)…

 

so let’s call it a ‘minimal wrist action’ haha DCE5E87D-0CFB-48BC-96D2-171591A4B4A3.jpeg.1e1c89caafc727c7cb5d71a4a1542652.jpeg

For sure.  It’s minimal, but must be “ enough “ for the head to arc and the face to  rotate

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25 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

How to keep the putter head low without some extra movements?

Extension of the trail arm.  It’s not extra movement if it’s necessary.   But it’s not extreme either.  Think of it as a slight cocking of the trail wrist going  back ( Minor ) and release by extension going through.  

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George Low was the master and greatest advocate of using wrists in putting. His take was/is: The less action involved; the better. The legend tells no one could beat him on the green. That was in a period when greens were slower and more loft on putters was used. Also GL liked to strike the ball on the downbeat. Simply put: his style is completely opposed to many modern techniques.

 

Using the hands and wrists go extremely well with the finest motor skills in body performance (btw - the brain has the biggest part available for this set of motor skills). The softness of stroke; touch; rhythm AND direction can be felt best when the wrists are involved.
 

But an accurate putting stroke is far from simple. Control freaks with overexcited minds tend to move away from using the wrists ( Langer, BDC etc) while others learned to control the mind set (Tiger, Nicklaus). The most gifted (Daly) do not care at all (move fast and gracious).

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8 hours ago, dai3015 said:

Just throwing the question out there really - I use the Blast Motion device to look at my putting stroke and whatever grip (cross handed, reverse overlap, claw, etc) my stats and hole percentages are always better when I use a flowing, wristy stroke.

Face angle delivery average is 0.1 degree open with the wristy stroke but between 0.7 and 1.0 degree open with a shoulder dominated stroke. Tempo seems to be better as does path. Why is this?

I've considered all types of putters to try and get the advantages that I can - surely it's the simplest stroke in golf isn't it - a short swing where you've only got to start the ball on line with the right pace for it to go in (on a flat putt), so why is it so hard to do it consistently?

 

I was just interested in the debate really? Does it really matter how the stroke looks as long as it works? Am I too concerned with aesthetics and doing what works on tour when really it should be what works for me at my local course? 

Sometimes feels isn’t real. I have a stiff arms putting style.  I started to use more of my wrist and felt it was all wrist but when I look at myself on video it is a combo of wrist and arms. 

 

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"Why do I putt better with a "wristy" putting stroke?"

 

Probably because you are releasing the putter head and generally more relaxed.  I have seen many players instantly put a better role on the ball when they start doing this. 

 

Stiff, mechanical putters frequently either slice their putts, or have poor speed, or both.

 

My 2 cents....

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Thanks for all the replies and interesting comments

 

A bit more to add

 

I've been playing golf for 40 years (started as an 8 year old). I was never a great putter, but have developed a solid stroke with good distance control, my bad miss being a push right,

 

I play off an 8 handicap, so can get it round a bit, I was just searching for something that would save a couple of putts per round.

 

I've played around with the blast motion device again this morning, using my usual putter (A Sub70 face balanced mallet) and also trying an anser style putter.

 

The Anser style putter definitely leaves the face slightly more open (1.2 degrees)

 

The mallet is better but the face is still open, between 0.2 and 0.8 degrees, so obviously something mechanical in my stroke.

 

Interestingly, a claw grip is more consistent but my feel goes awry

 

Face rotation, according to blast motion is 4 degrees back and 4,5 degrees on the forward stroke.

 

I'm tempted to give an armlock a go - using the lead hand as the control in the stroke

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      • 17 replies
    • 2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #1
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #2
      2022 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #3
       
       
      WITB Albums 
       
      Eugenio Chacarra - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Larkin Gross - Mid-Atlantic PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Billy Hurley - WITB - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
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      Pullout Albums
       
      Cameron putters - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
      Oddyssey Putters - 2022 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2022 Huntsville Champ (Korn Ferry) Photos & 30+ WITB- Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #1
      2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #2
      2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #3
      2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Tee-K Kelly - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Blayne Barber - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Thomas Walsh - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Davis Thompson - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Philip Knowles - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Tom Whitney - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Steven Fisk - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      John Pak - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Vincent Norrman - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Brandon Matthews - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Peter Kuest - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Whee Kim - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Will Bateman - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      MJ Daffue - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Rhein Gibson - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      David Kocher - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Will Gordon - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Trevor Cone - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Bryce Emory - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Curtis Luck - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry
      Ryan Ruffels - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
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      Kevin Dougherty - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
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      Patrick Cover - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Nick Voke - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
      Grant Hirschman - 2022 Huntsville Championship (Korn Ferry)
       
       
       

       
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