HATTON BLOWS HIS TOP OVER 18th HOLE IN ABU DHABI

[Unplayablelies]

The notion that par fives should be reachable in two is ridiculous. It’s a freaking PAR 5 !

[bladehunter]

18 minutes ago, DON SVO said:

 

Hatton sounds like someone who doesn't favor his wedge game.

Maybe so.  I guess it depends on how you look at it.  To me I don’t “ expect “ to hit the green in 2 usually. But I do expect to be greenside somewhere.  So I’m absolutely relying on my wedge game.    To me a 3 shot par 5 favors the best putters.  Not the best ballstriker.   

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, Unplayablelies said:

The notion that par fives should be reachable in two is ridiculous. It’s a freaking PAR 5 !

That’s just not how a professional sees it.   My par 5 scoring average for the year is 4.72…. I’d wager a wild arse guess that the best in the game is probably 4.25 ish.    Pars on par 5s are what guys who don’t make cuts do.  

[DON SVO]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Maybe so.  I guess it depends on how you look at it.  To me I don’t “ expect “ to hit the green in 2 usually. But I do expect to be greenside somewhere.  So I’m absolutely relying on my wedge game.    To me a 3 shot par 5 favors the best putters.  Not the best ballstriker.   

 

Greenside and 40-80 yards are two different animals. I personally don't think he likes the layup on that hole and it puts him in weird yardages. Zach Johnson snagged his green jacket by completely contradicting Hatton's opinion on Par 5s. 

 

Have wedge, will travel. Except Hatton. 

[PracticeSwinger]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

That’s just not how a professional sees it.   My par 5 scoring average for the year is 4.72…. I’d wager a wild arse guess that the best in the game is probably 4.25 ish.    Pars on par 5s are what guys who don’t make cuts do.  

Last complete season 2021 - PGA Tour averages - scoring and birdie or better % :

Par 3s : 3.08 (12.9%)

Par 4s : 4.05 (16.5%)

Par 5s : 4.66 (43.4%)

 

Assuming a 4-10-4 par72 it means... 0.52 / 1.65 / 1.73 = 3.90  birdies per round distribution... So yeah, they expect their birdies to come from those few Par5s... now, does that mean you can and should blow a gasket, that's another debate

 

 

[vandyfan]

If Hatton is so into course design and setup then he should also complain about the backboard that is present there with the hospitality setup. Kind of takes some of the skill away, no?

 

Also, as a player who is fairly average on distance off the tee (255-265 TOTAL yds) it is fairly rare that I can reach a par 5 in two. And I am casual, average golfer. Not an elite professional. So if we are truly TESTING these guys, they shouldn't be automatically reaching most par 5s in two. 

[PracticeSwinger]

3 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

Also, as a player who is fairly average on distance off the tee (255-265 TOTAL yds) it is fairly rare that I can reach a par 5 in two. And I am casual, average golfer. Not an elite professional. So if we are truly TESTING these guys, they shouldn't be automatically reaching most par 5s in two. 

Agree completely - in theory... but then, when being pragmatic, with 320yds drive and 270yds 3wood - let's round it to 600yds in two shots... the only way it can be accomplish is by a stupid long 700yds hole or with a funky dogleg/penalty area design... it's why I rather see a tough but reachable par5 in two shots for these guys but that is risk/reward and offers a lot of variance in scoring... the perfect example being hole 15 at Augusta... scores ranging from eagles to doubles and all it takes is one misplayed shot to see that disparity 

[Titleist99]

10 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Agree completely - in theory... but then, when being pragmatic, with 320yds drive and 270yds 3wood - let's round it to 600yds in two shots... the only way it can be accomplish is by a stupid long 700yds hole or with a funky dogleg/penalty area design... it's why I rather see a tough but reachable par5 in two shots for these guys but that is risk/reward and offers a lot of variance in scoring... the perfect example being hole 15 at Augusta... scores ranging from eagles to doubles and all it takes is one misplayed shot to see that disparity 

IMO ..... All par 5 holes should be risk//reward. The PGATOUR would rather see birdies instead of carnage.

They have a product to protect which is ......Long drives and low scores. 

 

You too can drive like the pros with a new driver.......(sponsored by TaylorMade) LOL!

[bscinstnct]

22 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

If Hatton is so into course design and setup then he should also complain about the backboard that is present there with the hospitality setup. Kind of takes some of the skill away, no?

 

Also, as a player who is fairly average on distance off the tee (255-265 TOTAL yds) it is fairly rare that I can reach a par 5 in two. And I am casual, average golfer. Not an elite professional. So if we are truly TESTING these guys, they shouldn't be automatically reaching most par 5s in two. 

 

Most par 5s should definitely be reachable in two with the risk vs reward ratio being the variable. And the risk vs reward variable can be determined in a number of ways.

 

My favorite is for a 3i/4i/5w to be required to reach in two. Ideally, a high, well shaped, shot can dial in close. A good shot can hit the green and maybe not stick but still leave a very good birdie chance, a reasonable up and down, or even still an eagle opportunity. A bad shot should require hard work for birdie or even the possibility of a blow up.

 

For me, the long approach on a par-5 is the coolest shot in golf. It’s like a “bomb” in football. The ball in the air, the anticipation,

 

the roar of the crowd as a two-shot move is on the table!

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Most par 5s should definitely be reachable in two with the risk vs reward ratio being the variable. And the risk vs reward variable can be determined in a number of ways.

 

My favorite is for a 3i/4i/5w to be required to reach in two. Ideally, a high, well shaped, shot can dial in close. A good shot can hit the green and maybe not stick but still leave a very good birdie chance, a reasonable up and down, or even still an eagle opportunity. A bad shot should require hard work for birdie or even the possibility of a blow up.

 

For me, the long approach on a par-5 is the coolest shot in golf. It’s like a “bomb” in football. The ball in the air, the anticipation,

 

the roar of the crowd as a two-shot move is on the table!

Agree - that's why I posted about #15 at Augusta for a perfect example... just 520ish yards or so but... pulled drive and you are behind the trees on the left side -> can't reach in two... good drive on the right side leaves you approximately 200yds on a downhill lie where you; carry the green and it's trickles down into the #16 water hazard or land it short (even on the first few feet on the green) and it trickles back down into the pond or (very rarely) push it into the deep rightside bunker; good luck - even just a few yards off the green at the back and it's a delicate chip (ask Spieth if it doesn't hit the flag last year)... while a great shot can leave you with an eagle look... love that hole

[Titleist99]

3 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Agree - that's why I posted about #15 at Augusta for a perfect example... just 520ish yards or so but... pulled drive and you are behind the trees on the left side -> can't reach in two... good drive on the right side leaves you approximately 200yds on a downhill lie where you; carry the green and it's trickles down into the #16 water hazard or land it short (even on the first few feet on the green) and it trickles back down into the pond or (very rarely) push it into the deep rightside bunker; good luck - even just a few yards off the green at the back and it's a delicate chip (ask Spieth if it doesn't hit the flag last year)... while a great shot can leave you with an eagle look... love that hole

great hole design ......

[DIIV]

On 1/23/2022 at 4:36 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

 I like Hatton but the hamster in his brain needs to get back on the wheel.

So good, I’m definitely using this. 

[vandyfan]

1 hour ago, MtlJayMan said:

Agree completely - in theory... but then, when being pragmatic, with 320yds drive and 270yds 3wood - let's round it to 600yds in two shots... the only way it can be accomplish is by a stupid long 700yds hole or with a funky dogleg/penalty area design... it's why I rather see a tough but reachable par5 in two shots for these guys but that is risk/reward and offers a lot of variance in scoring... the perfect example being hole 15 at Augusta... scores ranging from eagles to doubles and all it takes is one misplayed shot to see that disparity 

 

I think it comes down to if you see the Tour as an entertainment product or a "test" of the best players in the world. I think, currently, most tour stops are clearly an entertainment product (preemptive LCP, often soft/dartboard like conditions, hospitality backboards, etc) but I would rather see it be a "test." If a par 5 is dead straight, it probably should be well over 600 yards. I haven't played a ton of PGA tour stop courses but hole #15 at Harbour Town, to me, is a great example of a testing par 5 that is under 600 yds. Having played it from well shorter than the tour tees, you have to hit two EXCELLENT shots to get there. It is a really frustrating hole where you can hit a great drive but be a hair left of the centerline of the fairway and you have no shot. 

 

That hole plays 588 yds from the tour tees. From the white tees, where a vast majority of recreational duffer golfers play from, that par 5 is 541 yds. So the tour is only going back 40 yards BUT I would think the average tour player is AT LEAST 60-70 yards longer than a decent male golfer (that is probably being generous to us mere mortals). I know for myself, the bang average driver on Tour is 50-70 yards longer than me of the drive. Then with a 3W or hybrid they are probably another 30-50 yds longer. So, by my estimation, that tee *should* be at least 80 yards back. However, the beauty of this hole (and the entire course) is it is fairly difficult to overpower this hole. I think this hole is not a difficult par, a straightforward birdie but exceptionally difficult eagle and going for the green in 2 brings in some danger for sure. Just my two cents.

[Pastit]

5 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

I think it comes down to if you see the Tour as an entertainment product or a "test" of the best players in the world. I think, currently, most tour stops are clearly an entertainment product (preemptive LCP, often soft/dartboard like conditions, hospitality backboards, etc) but I would rather see it be a "test." If a par 5 is dead straight, it probably should be well over 600 yards. I haven't played a ton of PGA tour stop courses but hole #15 at Harbour Town, to me, is a great example of a testing par 5 that is under 600 yds. Having played it from well shorter than the tour tees, you have to hit two EXCELLENT shots to get there. It is a really frustrating hole where you can hit a great drive but be a hair left of the centerline of the fairway and you have no shot. 

 

That hole plays 588 yds from the tour tees. From the white tees, where a vast majority of recreational duffer golfers play from, that par 5 is 541 yds. So the tour is only going back 40 yards BUT I would think the average tour player is AT LEAST 60-70 yards longer than a decent male golfer (that is probably being generous to us mere mortals). I know for myself, the bang average driver on Tour is 50-70 yards longer than me of the drive. Then with a 3W or hybrid they are probably another 30-50 yds longer. So, by my estimation, that tee *should* be at least 80 yards back. However, the beauty of this hole (and the entire course) is it is fairly difficult to overpower this hole. I think this hole is not a difficult par, a straightforward birdie but exceptionally difficult eagle and going for the green in 2 brings in some danger for sure. Just my two cents.

I think it was one of the commentators covering the AMEX event last weekend who hit the nail on the head for me. He said, about the Nicklaus course I think, that “ the design is a defence against modern gear “. 
 

For instance, look at the amount of 60’s and better being shot. For me, the pro game has gone too far in the wrong direction. 
 

For Mr Hatton, he needs to grow up or get a kick up the a—- 

[DIIV]

12 minutes ago, Pastit said:

I think it was one of the commentators covering the AMEX event last weekend who hit the nail on the head for me. He said, about the Nicklaus course I think, that “ the design is a defence against modern gear “. 
 

For instance, look at the amount of 60’s and better being shot. For me, the pro game has gone too far in the wrong direction. 
 

For Mr Hatton, he needs to grow up or get a kick up the a—- 

Nicklaus definitely held up well against the bombers. Watched that James Hart guy for a bit and he was having a hell of a time clubbing off the tees. Made double on a hole that should have been drivable for him downwind after hitting an iron off the tee. Really made them think about what shots to play and they were having a hard time with it. 

[TiScape]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:08 PM, JamesWA said:

Tyrrell Hatton made an interesting comment after taking a 9 at the par 5 18th at the Abu Dhabi Championships. Basically he said the 600 yard hole (forward tees, into the wind) was among the worst he'd ever seen, and that " If you hit a good drive as a pro you should have at least a chance to go for the green in two, otherwise the hole becomes a par three (after first two shots).

 

I don't agree, but I'm not a pro. Interested in peoples' thoughts

Call me old school. But I thought the basic idea behind a par 5 is that it’s designed to be reached in 3… 🤷🏼‍♂️ Reaching in 2 is a bonus, not a given. But I get these pros are so long now that they are spoiled by their length and that par 5s are essentially just longer par 4s now. That said, watching pros go for par 5s in two is one of my favorite shots to watch. Like Hideki in the playoff at the Sony. Wow!

Edited January 25, 2022 by TiScape

[smashdn]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:48 AM, MtlJayMan said:

...scores ranging from eagles to doubles and all it takes is one misplayed shot to see that disparity 

 

Isn't that also Yas Links #18?

 

TH hit it into the bunker.  Then played an approach to an adjoining fairway.  That might have been his best option given the lie he had but he didn't have to hit the darn thing in the bunker either.

 

I sort of like this hole.  Lots of width off the tee but it forces you to make a decision with driver right away.  Have to play the hole backwards from the green.  He didn't do that well from the jump.  Wasn't it Mike Tyson who said everyone has a plan till they get hit in the mouth?  Well, he got hit in the mouth by driving it in the bunker.  Mentally strong golfer doesn't blow a gasket and tries to make the best shot given the lie and circumstances.  Don't try and do too much if you have a crap lie.  Get back to where you have a good lie and saw some of that distance to the hole off.  All you can do sometimes.  A par from the fairway bunker would have been absolutely doable and been a fine score given he hit it in there.

Edited January 26, 2022 by smashdn

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

Last complete season 2021 - PGA Tour averages - scoring and birdie or better % :

Par 3s : 3.08 (12.9%)

Par 4s : 4.05 (16.5%)

Par 5s : 4.66 (43.4%)

 

Assuming a 4-10-4 par72 it means... 0.52 / 1.65 / 1.73 = 3.90  birdies per round distribution... So yeah, they expect their birdies to come from those few Par5s... now, does that mean you can and should blow a gasket, that's another debate

 

 

Oh no. I’m not defending him saying it out loud.  I’m just saying I get why he doesn’t like the hole into the wind.  But. At the end of the day. We can’t control wind.