What is your 11 YO Girl's Clubhead Speed?

[kekoa]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Yeah but I only saw one eagle on his card on day two. 

Well to his defense.  The greens were hard to hold with wedge let alone driver.  lmao!!

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, kekoa said:

Well to his defense.  The greens were hard to hold with wedge let alone driver.  lmao!!

Played there a few years ago and half way through it started pouring for 45 minutes. Kids huddled up near carts and of course nobody had umbrellas. After it stopped the kids went back, they resumed play and finished the day. Craziest thing I’d ever seen. 

[tatertot]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:26 AM, BFD3 said:

This is from a Danielle Kang interview in Golf Digest.

She obviously doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm going with the internet randos on GolfWRX.

[golow]

I teach, coach, help one of my "kid's" (D1 college golfer) younger sister. She's 11 (10 in this video) - she's 6" taller than everyone in her DCP age bracket and at tournaments. She's not awkward or gangly at all ... she's actually jacked for an 11 year old. 

 

First drive 250.2

 

A little roll on a range that usually yields none (dry spell)

 

 

 

https://www.drivechipandputt.com/2022/sub-regional-qualifier/lyman-orchards-golf-center

 

6th grade now - on HS golf team for this spring (private school is K-12)

 

She was 1st alternate ..... gotta work on short game

[leezer99]

11 hours ago, golow said:

I teach, coach, help one of my "kid's" (D1 college golfer) younger sister. She's 11 (10 in this video) - she's 6" taller than everyone in her DCP age bracket and at tournaments. She's not awkward or gangly at all ... she's actually jacked for an 11 year old. 

 

First drive 250.2

 

A little roll on a range that usually yields none (dry spell)

 

 

IMG_2192.mov 1.85 MB · 7 downloads  

 

https://www.drivechipandputt.com/2022/sub-regional-qualifier/lyman-orchards-golf-center

 

6th grade now - on HS golf team for this spring (private school is K-12)

 

She was 1st alternate ..... gotta work on short game

 

The guy that walked in front of the camera after her swing had me dying.  Dude looked like he didn't know if he should duck and dive or hustle out of the way.

 

The girl in the video has a great swing.  I wouldn't doubt her total distance is around 250 pretty consistently.

[MB19]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

The guy that walked in front of the camera after her swing had me dying.  Dude looked like he didn't know if he should duck and dive or hustle out of the way.

 

The girl in the video has a great swing.  I wouldn't doubt her total distance is around 250 pretty consistently.

My first thought after seeing this was this video could become the golf version of the much worse quality videos of a 16/17 yo Giannis Antetokounpo going coast to coast against B-grade Euro pros years back.  Basketball curmudgeons would say, "But he can't shoot"  or "He won't do that against NBA competition", but it was obvious the guy had a serious skill set.

 

When an 11 yo girl is driving 230 it is special.  Driving 250 it has the possibility of being generational if the rest of her game catches up.

[golow]

3 hours ago, MB19 said:

My first thought after seeing this was this video could become the golf version of the much worse quality videos of a 16/17 yo Giannis Antetokounpo going coast to coast against B-grade Euro pros years back.  Basketball curmudgeons would say, "But he can't shoot"  or "He won't do that against NBA competition", but it was obvious the guy had a serious skill set.

 

When an 11 yo girl is driving 230 it is special.  Driving 250 it has the possibility of being generational if the rest of her game catches up.

She’s a good kid and this summer at 10 years old she would either lap the field or just fall flat ….. most 10 year olds have attentional difficulties required for golf …. And this girl has that 5 fold. Not talking out of school on her I’m family with her family at this point . 
 

went to Pinehurst but was overwhelmed and just fell flat. She’s got time assuming she continues with an interest in the game. 
 

And yes dude in front of camera was great …. Def no need to trim that out 

[darter79]

I'm never a fan of using DCP as a qualifier for driving distance. If that was the case my kid would be scary long.  Most ranges well they are driving ranges for a reason.  That said at Pinehurst very few will 'lap the field sorta speak'. Those kids who typically are the top of the board have complete games. Seen it for years.  Played with the kid who won girls 10 last year its impressive to watch these kids play. 

[MB19]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:23 PM, darter79 said:

I'm never a fan of using DCP as a qualifier for driving distance. If that was the case my kid would be scary long.  Most ranges well they are driving ranges for a reason.  That said at Pinehurst very few will 'lap the field sorta speak'. Those kids who typically are the top of the board have complete games. Seen it for years.  Played with the kid who won girls 10 last year its impressive to watch these kids play. 

I know what you mean about that, but unfortunately it is usually the only data recorded on drives that is available for the public to see (which is probably a good thing, with privacy being at a premium these days) regarding juniors.  And yes, even the NFL combine's 40 times are questioned by many as being a true measure of a player's speed--we don't live in a world of absolutes.  

 

Here on WRX, there is always debate over how far kids can drive.  There is seemingly no satisfying evidence that will get all parties to believe the power some these pre-teen and early teen girls exhibit on the golf course for some... and for good reason, I suppose.  But sometimes, the claims can be backed up and it is ok to be floored by it.

[tiger1873]

19 minutes ago, MB19 said:

I know what you mean about that, but unfortunately it is usually the only data recorded on drives that is available for the public to see (which is probably a good thing, with privacy being at a premium these days) regarding juniors.  And yes, even the NFL combine's 40 times are questioned by many as being a true measure of a player's speed--we don't live in a world of absolutes.  

 

Here on WRX, there is always debate over how far kids can drive.  There is seemingly no satisfying evidence that will get all parties to believe the power some these pre-teen and early teen girls exhibit on the golf course for some... and for good reason, I suppose.  But sometimes, the claims can be backed up and it is ok to be floored by it.

 

 

There is also HJGT long drive results.   It's not a competition I would do but the results do give some good numbers and it worthwhile looking at since they have a lot kids doing this on a regular basis.

 

It's not always to see results from all their events but I was able to find a few results for national event posted with results.  The data pretty much speaks for itself.

 

https://tournaments.hjgt.org/Scoreboard/CompetitionResults?TournamentID=16123&DivisionID=2279

 

https://tournaments.hjgt.org/Scoreboard/CompetitionResults?TournamentID=16881

Edited March 4, 2022 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

Also a few years ago FSGA released the latest combine data on who did it and there is lots of data there as well.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nQ9FCrwWVH4njKRvegenM7t-mJfadQoq2yERZB64OI4/edit#gid=1466152806

[MB19]

13 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

There is also HJGT long drive results.   It's not a competition I would do but the results do give some good numbers and it worthwhile looking at since they have a lot kids doing this on a regular basis.

 

It's not always to see results from all their events but I was able to find a few results for national event posted with results.  The data pretty much speaks for itself.

 

https://tournaments.hjgt.org/Scoreboard/CompetitionResults?TournamentID=16123&DivisionID=2279

 

https://tournaments.hjgt.org/Scoreboard/CompetitionResults?TournamentID=16881

 

13 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

Also a few years ago FSGA released the latest combine data on who did it and there is lots of data there as well.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nQ9FCrwWVH4njKRvegenM7t-mJfadQoq2yERZB64OI4/edit#gid=1466152806

I appreciate the links to the data, and thank you.

 

The neat thing about DCP's data is that it covers such a huge swath of junior golfers across virtually all age groups and parts of the country.  Even though the drive portion is set up unevenly location-by-location (sometimes uphill, sometimes with an obstacle, sometimes at altitude, etc...) it is the largest database we have of measured data for juniors.  The quality of the data, of course, is arguable.

[darter79]

23 hours ago, MB19 said:

I know what you mean about that, but unfortunately it is usually the only data recorded on drives that is available for the public to see (which is probably a good thing, with privacy being at a premium these days) regarding juniors.  And yes, even the NFL combine's 40 times are questioned by many as being a true measure of a player's speed--we don't live in a world of absolutes.  

 

Here on WRX, there is always debate over how far kids can drive.  There is seemingly no satisfying evidence that will get all parties to believe the power some these pre-teen and early teen girls exhibit on the golf course for some... and for good reason, I suppose.  But sometimes, the claims can be backed up and it is ok to be floored by it.

That is true. Most happen on driving ranges. Most courses don't water driving ranges and they are ROCK hard. You can hit it 150 turn into 225. That's all I'm saying. But in terms of measuring kid a vs kid b. That is all there is where a lot of juniors attend such event. USKG does have trackman data I have asked for them to share they of course said no but he told me if I email him he would give me ss and yardage averages by age. 

[MB19]

3 hours ago, darter79 said:

That is true. Most happen on driving ranges. Most courses don't water driving ranges and they are ROCK hard. You can hit it 150 turn into 225. That's all I'm saying. But in terms of measuring kid a vs kid b. That is all there is where a lot of juniors attend such event. USKG does have trackman data I have asked for them to share they of course said no but he told me if I email him he would give me ss and yardage averages by age. 

The most obvious answer for DCP to record carry distance only, but that probably won't happen.  It would be great if they used Trackman, of course, at the competitions.  Oh well, we can't expect too much for free-99.

[Wham49]

you guys are scary

 

at 11 my daughter is small for her age, carries her driver about 120-130 

 

but who cares, are they having fun? can they score? can they chip and putt?

 

those are the things that I care about. A good swing and a good short game is all I care about until she grows into a women all of that will take care of itself later if she has those 2 things

[darter79]

1 hour ago, Wham49 said:

you guys are scary

 

at 11 my daughter is small for her age, carries her driver about 120-130 

 

but who cares, are they having fun? can they score? can they chip and putt?

 

those are the things that I care about. A good swing and a good short game is all I care about until she grows into a women all of that will take care of itself later if she has those 2 things

 

all relative to what your goal is. At 11 hitting it 120-130 and trying to play tournaments that are 5000 plus. That would be quite the challenge regardless of how good your short game and putting are. Hard to actually score when you are playing a 310 par 4 hitting it 130. 

 

That said distance is relative as long as you find yourself around the average and can actually reach the GIR

[Wham49]

1 hour ago, darter79 said:

 

all relative to what your goal is. At 11 hitting it 120-130 and trying to play tournaments that are 5000 plus. That would be quite the challenge regardless of how good your short game and putting are. Hard to actually score when you are playing a 310 par 4 hitting it 130. 

 

That said distance is relative as long as you find yourself around the average and can actually reach the GIR

I guess my point is why are we worried now about little girls finished at tournaments. I look at them as just experience right now. 

[darter79]

1 hour ago, Wham49 said:

I guess my point is why are we worried now about little girls finished at tournaments. I look at them as just experience right now. 

Sure its experience but part of experience should be learning to score, learning to win, learning to have a lead and now blow it. But most kids enjoy the sport more if they have success. Getting out driven by 100 yards surely can't be fun. I'm not saying your approach is right or wrong and do love your approach on putting and chipping. But you need a level of distance to be competitive. 130 for an 11 year old is very very low. My daughter at 7u words hit it further.  But to each their own on with their approach. 

[Wham49]

15 hours ago, darter79 said:

Sure its experience but part of experience should be learning to score, learning to win, learning to have a lead and now blow it. But most kids enjoy the sport more if they have success. Getting out driven by 100 yards surely can't be fun. I'm not saying your approach is right or wrong and do love your approach on putting and chipping. But you need a level of distance to be competitive. 130 for an 11 year old is very very low. My daughter at 7u words hit it further.  But to each their own on with their approach. 

I would love for her to hit it farther but she is small for her age needs to catch up to everybody size wise. For how far she hits it she is very competitive. I am not worried about her distance until she fills out a little. This whole thing would be a different convo when she is 14. We should all remember that distance does not equal score, especially in the women's game. SOme of the shortest hitters on the LPGA are the winners. If you look at their distances they are hitting their driver 220 

[heavy_hitter]

3 hours ago, Wham49 said:

I would love for her to hit it farther but she is small for her age needs to catch up to everybody size wise. For how far she hits it she is very competitive. I am not worried about her distance until she fills out a little. This whole thing would be a different convo when she is 14. We should all remember that distance does not equal score, especially in the women's game. SOme of the shortest hitters on the LPGA are the winners. If you look at their distances they are hitting their driver 220 

Actually the 2nd and last speed window for girls begins at 11 and ends around 13.  Once that speed window closes it makes it very difficult to obtain distance.  Possible yes, but much more difficult.

https://www.dennissalesgolf.com/golf-drills-and-practice-blogs/2016/3/6/junior-golfers-need-speed-training

[Wham49]

very interesting, I am not worried though because like I said she is one of the smaller girls and hasnt grown much since 10 

 

[RmoorePE]

My daughter (14) hits it in the upper percentiles for her age (at least in the tournaments we play) and routinely gets beat by kids who are often 30-40 yards behind her drives. Especially in the bigger tournaments. She got a Garmin watch a few weeks ago and it has her averaging 232 with driver. That is over all conditions obviously (down/up wind/hill).

 

Interesting that the speed window closes at 13. If I tell my daughter that she is going to get pretty mad. She thinks she is going to drive it 280 by the end of the summer LOL. She is convinced that as long as she is lifting heavy weights and hitting lots of golf balls she will hit it miles. Too much Kyle Berkshire on Youtube. She and I both really want her to grow 2 more inches, but we may be hitting the end of the window.

 

If your kid is small you can't make them grow, so they get forced into more chipping/pitching, as well as hitting 3w. It should help them down the line. I think it would have helped my kids. Most important is to have fun, I think as long as she can keep scores the 80s, every tournament will be a great experience.

[Medson]

Speed stick (or whatever that thing is called). Here we come ~~~

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

My daughter (14) hits it in the upper percentiles for her age (at least in the tournaments we play) and routinely gets beat by kids who are often 30-40 yards behind her drives. Especially in the bigger tournaments. She got a Garmin watch a few weeks ago and it has her averaging 232 with driver. That is over all conditions obviously (down/up wind/hill).

 

Interesting that the speed window closes at 13. If I tell my daughter that she is going to get pretty mad. She thinks she is going to drive it 280 by the end of the summer LOL. She is convinced that as long as she is lifting heavy weights and hitting lots of golf balls she will hit it miles. Too much Kyle Berkshire on Youtube. She and I both really want her to grow 2 more inches, but we may be hitting the end of the window.

 

If your kid is small you can't make them grow, so they get forced into more chipping/pitching, as well as hitting 3w. It should help them down the line. I think it would have helped my kids. Most important is to have fun, I think as long as she can keep scores the 80s, every tournament will be a great experience.

Speed Window is not definitive.  Depends on early and late with development.

4 hours ago, Medson said:

Speed stick (or whatever that thing is called). Here we come ~~~

I personally don’t think speed sticks work for young juniors.  Females I would look at Olympic lifts before Speed Sticks.  Legs/Jumps/chest.  If they aren’t strong enough in those areas they aren’t going to work either. 
 

Kind of like spending money on a 4 cylinder and trying to get it to go 0-60 faster.  Only so much it can do.

Edited March 23, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

7 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

My daughter (14) hits it in the upper percentiles for her age (at least in the tournaments we play) and routinely gets beat by kids who are often 30-40 yards behind her drives. Especially in the bigger tournaments. She got a Garmin watch a few weeks ago and it has her averaging 232 with driver. That is over all conditions obviously (down/up wind/hill).

 

Interesting that the speed window closes at 13. If I tell my daughter that she is going to get pretty mad. She thinks she is going to drive it 280 by the end of the summer LOL. She is convinced that as long as she is lifting heavy weights and hitting lots of golf balls she will hit it miles. Too much Kyle Berkshire on Youtube. She and I both really want her to grow 2 more inches, but we may be hitting the end of the window.

 

If your kid is small you can't make them grow, so they get forced into more chipping/pitching, as well as hitting 3w. It should help them down the line. I think it would have helped my kids. Most important is to have fun, I think as long as she can keep scores the 80s, every tournament will be a great experience.

I wouldn’t worry about a so called speed window. Every kid is different.

 

As for scoring for girls the course setups are a real issue for girls who are longer.

 

if you can’t use a driver and forced to use a club that goes less then the other girls your really not able to take advantage of that added distance. 
 

However i am now seeing once they get to the point they can over power the course it is a much different story.  

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by tiger1873

[Jkhogbear]

9 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Actually the 2nd and last speed window for girls begins at 11 and ends around 13.  Once that speed window closes it makes it very difficult to obtain distance.  Possible yes, but much more difficult.

https://www.dennissalesgolf.com/golf-drills-and-practice-blogs/2016/3/6/junior-golfers-need-speed-training

What about juniors that don’t even start the game until age 14 and now hit it past most in their age group?  Please people, quit worrying about how far your 11 year old kid is hitting it.  

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

What about juniors that don’t even start the game until age 14 and now hit it past most in their age group?  Please people, quit worrying about how far your 11 year old kid is hitting it.  

I’ve heard Conrad at Stanford talk about this. He knows the value in that HS freshman that has never played but is athletic enough to end up as an all American. 

[heavy_hitter]

11 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

What about juniors that don’t even start the game until age 14 and now hit it past most in their age group?  Please people, quit worrying about how far your 11 year old kid is hitting it.  

 

You mean like my daughter who picked up the game at 13 and played at a D1 school? 

 

During the window of development it makes it easier.  You can develop during that speed window without even knowing your developing.  It has nothing to do with golf and has everything to do with being an athlete.

 

There are developmental windows in motor, muscle, speed, etc. throughout birth to becoming an adult.  Learning to walk, talk, run, crawl, grasp all have windows just like a speed window.  What parent says we need to "work on baby and his grasp"?

 

https://psychlens.com/stages-of-human-development-from-birth-to-adulthood/

Edited March 24, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[Jkhogbear]

13 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

You mean like my daughter who picked up the game at 13 and played at a D1 school? 

 

During the window of development it makes it easier.  You can develop during that speed window without even knowing your developing.  It has nothing to do with golf and has everything to do with being an athlete.

 

There are developmental windows in motor, muscle, speed, etc. throughout birth to becoming an adult.  Learning to walk, talk, run, crawl, grasp all have windows just like a speed window.  What parent says we need to "work on baby and his grasp"?

 

https://psychlens.com/stages-of-human-development-from-birth-to-adulthood/

You said juniors need speed training from 11-13.  Just don’t think kids need superspeed  sticks and tracking and monitoring their clubhead  speed.  My kid didn’t pick up a club until age 14 so didn’t do any superspeed training from 11-13.  It didn’t matter in the end.  Hits it past everyone now.  

[heavy_hitter]

11 hours ago, Jkhogbear said:

You said juniors need speed training from 11-13.  Just don’t think kids need superspeed  sticks and tracking and monitoring their clubhead  speed.  My kid didn’t pick up a club until age 14 so didn’t do any superspeed training from 11-13.  It didn’t matter in the end.  Hits it past everyone now.  

That is not what I said.  I said there are two speed windows for girls.  One is from 11-13.  Speed Sticks don't work for kids until after puberty.  Will say it again "Speed Sticks don't work for kids until after puberty."  During those developmental windows it makes it easier for them to obtain speed and power.  This isn't a golf related window.  This is a human development related window where the bodies chemistry allows for the greatest growth in speed and power.  Whether lifting, band work, jumping, gymnastics, playing multiple sports or whatever the activity is this is the window that makes it easy to do it.  It can actually be done without knowing you are doing it.

 

My son used speed sticks from 11-13.  They did absolutely nothing because he didn't have the strength for them to work.  Once he got the strength there is no reason to swing the speed sticks.  He went from like 96-112 in 18 months.  That is what people don't understand about the speed sticks.  If they do not have the strength to get faster, swinging the speed sticks won't do anything except put overuse on the body.  I relate this to a 4 cylinder car.  A 4 cylinder Car can only go 0-60 so fast.  No matter what you do to the engine it just isn't going to get to 60 much faster.  Put a V6 in that car and it is going to go 0-60 faster.  Most juniors need overall fitness with strength in jumping and chest muscles to move it faster, not speed sticks.

Edited March 25, 2022 by heavy_hitter