Is Bernhard Langer the GOAT?

[Mid-Am Killer]

Tiger or Jack? Tiger without a doubt is the GOAT if the metric is who played at the highest level against the best fields for a sustained period of time. Jack is without a doubt the GOAT if the metric is who is the greatest/most dominant champion in the history of the game. I propose to you a better metrics for determining the GOAT: because golf is a game for all ages and a lifetime pursuit, maybe we should consider the GOAT as the player with the lowest average competitive handicap over the best 50 years of their career after its all said and done.

 

Applying this metricm(and recognizing that in 2022 it has been 50 years since he turned pro) iI am becoming more convinced that the person who likely has the lowest tournament handicap average handicap over a 50 year stretch is Bernhard Langer. Gary Player, Jack Nicklaus, and Tom Watson (maybe Hale Irwin) being close seconds. Tiger's struggles with injury (and addiction) make it unlikely that when he is 60 he will be playing at the level the Langer has sustained). Phil MIckelson might be in the conversation depending on his trajectory over the next 15 years. However, Langer's 118 professional wins (and counting) across 6 decades on major tours really only compares to that of Gary Player. Consider the depth of field in Langer has competed against and the fact that that 60 of Players wins were on the developmental South African tour, I give the nod to Langer. You might disagree being that 42 of Langer's wins are on the champions tour, but I would push back saying that they were during the deepest era of senior talent in history, against deep fields of major champions and hall of famers who know how to close on the back nine on Sunday. In terms of being the greatest player ever on the PGA or Euro tour....Langer is not. In terms of a complete life's work as a golfer, its hard to throw Langer's name on the short list (and if he didnt get infected with the yips, his main tour days would have been even more impressive).

 

Prove me wrong!

[sdandrea]

On 2/18/2022 at 3:34 PM, Mid-Am Killer said:

Tiger or Jack? Tiger without a doubt is the GOAT if the metric is who played at the highest level against the best fields for a sustained period of time. Jack is without a doubt the GOAT if the metric is who is the greatest/most dominant champion in the history of the game. I propose to you a better metrics for determining the GOAT: because golf is a game for all ages and a lifetime pursuit, maybe we should consider the GOAT as the player with the lowest average competitive handicap over the best 50 years of their career after its all said and done.

 

Applying this metricm(and recognizing that in 2022 it has been 50 years since he turned pro) iI am becoming more convinced that the person who likely has the lowest tournament handicap average handicap over a 50 year stretch is Bernhard Langer. Gary Player, Jack Nicklaus, and Tom Watson (maybe Hale Irwin) being close seconds. Tiger's struggles with injury (and addiction) make it unlikely that when he is 60 he will be playing at the level the Langer has sustained). Phil MIckelson might be in the conversation depending on his trajectory over the next 15 years. However, Langer's 118 professional wins (and counting) across 6 decades on major tours really only compares to that of Gary Player. Consider the depth of field in Langer has competed against and the fact that that 60 of Players wins were on the developmental South African tour, I give the nod to Langer. You might disagree being that 42 of Langer's wins are on the champions tour, but I would push back saying that they were during the deepest era of senior talent in history, against deep fields of major champions and hall of famers who know how to close on the back nine on Sunday. In terms of being the greatest player ever on the PGA or Euro tour....Langer is not. In terms of a complete life's work as a golfer, its hard to throw Langer's name on the short list (and if he didnt get infected with the yips, his main tour days would have been even more impressive).

 

Prove me wrong!

He'll pass Hale Irwin soon, so yes .....GOAT.

[Fuscinator]

I'll give you the "Langer?!? Are you serious?" reactions we more casual golf enthusiasts are likely to have. 

 

Taking lowest competitive handicap as a given, for the moment, doesn't that just make him the most consistent of the all time top players? 

 

He's certainly the Champions Tour GOAT. He'll pass Irwin playing against healthier competition (at least, that's my impression), but without his Champions Tour career, are we even talking about Langer as the GOAT? (In this regard, it seems similar to the points John McEnroe made about Serena Williams.) 

 

Consistency and longevity are things we probably value much more in life than on the golf course. Maybe those of us who are a bit surprised to see Langer in the GOAT discussion don't appreciate these values as much as we should. Like Cal Ripken, he probably should get the nod for Best Attendance in that he shows up to play well more than anyone else, but I can't bring myself to count that as much as I probably should. I guess I'm more easily impressed by 'flashes of brilliance' (Seve, Jimi Hendrix) than I am by a 'model of consistency'. I guess that's something I should think more about.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Fuscinator
Left out a word.

[joshrad_golf]

The GOAT on the senior tour. There's no replacing Jack and Tiger in their prime. What Bernhard has done is incredible, especially for longevity's sake. But not the greatest of all time.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I am always floored by what Langer has accomplished out on the Champions Tour. the level of commitment to achieving that at the years have gone by is truly incredible.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

The thing is he was good and a winner in his young days too.. so yeah hes definitely underrated. Hes definitely for sure one of the greats in my opinion. Hovland reminds me of langer for some reason.