distance debate

[freddi22cl]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-woods-distance-debate-add-spin-to-golf-ball

 

2000- one player averaged over 300 yds , J Daly

2022- so far : 98 with 4 averaging 320. Driver/wedge show every week 

 

 

Golf’s governing bodies have been studying increases in distance for years and, in February 2021, laid the groundwork for potential rule changes.

“We’re entering into the solution phase from an equipment-standards standpoint,” Thomas Pagel, the USGA’s senior managing director of governance, said in a statement. “This is the first step in re-engaging the manufacturing community in looking at possible solutions for the long-term distance challenges that the game is facing.”

 

 

.............

 

thoughts? 

 

seems Woods suggests adding spin to the ball as a solution. 

 

[munichop]

The distance debate is a lot like global warming. It has been around for years but no one will do anything about it. The more I see driver wedge contests the more I watch the women, if they can ever get on tv.

[MtlJeff]

Still waiting for them to provide specifics on the long term challenges the game faces. Other than Mike Davis and his cronies having to spend thousands a year on broken monocles , or stamps to send love letters to Jack Nicklaus about simpler times

 

99.9% of golfers are fine playing 6500yd courses.

 

The same people complaining about the ball are often the designers of 7500yd resort courses where tumbleweeds roam the back tees LOL. Create a problem to complain about i guess.

[Nard_S]

27 minutes ago, freddi22cl said:

thoughts? 

 

seems Woods suggests adding spin to the ball as a solution. 

For PGA level of play this is a viable solution. Has been for many years. Woods was emphatic that it's a tour issue and not recreational. Ball would need more initial spin like it once had. I'm all for it.

[RCGA]

Would more spin make windy courses unplayable? 

 

If you hit a KSig ball on a hole with a 30mph head wind, that's apex'ing at 200y out and coming back at you. 

[MountainKing]

The problem is golf prides itself in having the same rules for pros and amateurs.  I personally think we're at the point where there needs to be two sets of rules out there, including how equipment is goverened.  MLB requires wood bats, maybe it's time for the PGA to look at something on that lines.

 

With all that said however, distance and birdies sell.  Equipment manufactures have a lot of money dumped into that, and money is generally the motivating factor, which I think is why you see the USGA do things like limit the driver length to 46" rather than actually do something. 

[NJBigFish22]

I think equipment should be different for pros versus amateurs.  Not radically different (balls, club length, grooves).  Also for the pros course set up should be more difficult, tighter fairways, faster greens and deeper rough.  Technology has been a huge factor, not only in equipment, but also player performance.

 

One thing that I don’t like and it happened again at the Genesis, I don’t believe pros should not be allowed to play alternate lines on holes.  So you tee off on let’s say hole 11, but you intentionally drive it into 13 fairway cause the green opens up.  There should be a penalty stroke for doing so.  Now I realize  this would be hard to enforce, cause was it just a bad swing or intentional.

Edited February 21, 2022 by NJBigFish22

[puresurfr]

I dont think ball manufacturers will ever go for this.  They always want to release a ball that is longer and more control.  Its a multimillion if not billion dollar business in golf ball sales, they cant have pros playing one ball and amateurs playing another, it would kill the ball business.  They can easily add deep bunkers in the 315-365 range to make it a risk reward hole.  i saw how a few short par 4s the last couple of weeks really handcuffed the big bombers AT Waste management and Riviera.  There are ways to "bomb-proof" courses for tour use.

As for the Hovland shortcut just label that fairways as OB, ive seen lots of courses discourage shortcuts due to safety of golfers

[Kenbone]

This will save them. It says tour right there on it so it should work.

 

[KennyP]

Wouldn't manufacturers just counter a higher spinning ball by making lower spinning clubs?

[nvr3putt]

problem solved

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by nvr3putt

[EddieEdwards]

I would alter the couse setups first, tighter fairways longer rough.  I suppose you can bring back wood woods.  Then your gonna have amateurs playing persimmon from the tips, that they hit as far as their pitching wedge.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

Still waiting for them to provide specifics on the long term challenges the game faces. Other than Mike Davis and his cronies having to spend thousands a year on broken monocles , or stamps to send love letters to Jack Nicklaus about simpler times

 

99.9% of golfers are fine playing 6500yd courses.

 

The same people complaining about the ball are often the designers of 7500yd resort courses where tumbleweeds roam the back tees LOL. Create a problem to complain about i guess.

 

Lots of truth in what you posted.

 

.1% of golfers are getting on TV, and, as they say, perception is reality.  I have long thought the easiest (though to some not very palatable) solution is a "game ball" for the pros.  Don't ask me where it should stop as far as to what level it should trickle down.  I will let the individual committee(s) make that decision based upon their field, the course(s) being played and the conditions.

 

It is the "wooden bat" of golf.  (Without making everyone go buy new $500 bats.)

[smashdn]

Just now, EddieEdwards said:

Then your gonna have amateurs playing persimmon from the tips,

 

I already do.  Most times on a 6630 yard course (tips for it).  The difference between persimmons and modern clubs for me on that course is two of the reachable par fives are not.  Don't have to lay up with long irons and can instead hit the persimmon 4 wood if I would rather.  And I hit more 7 and 8 iron approaches as opposed to 9 and wedges.

 

One of the easier (with modern clubs) par fives I have to go around trees instead of over them.  Still reachable in two though.

[Ghostwedge]

A flight restricted ball for tournament use only is the answer. Every ball manufacturer can still represent their brand. 

If Joe public golfer raises a stink, so what, he's not able to hit it 300+ yds anyway in the real world.

[Kenbone]

2 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

 

If Joe public golfer raises a stink, so what, he's not able to hit it 300+ yds anyway in the real world.

Except for us, right? You're not talking about us? We ALL hit it over 300 yards!

[zdtallan]

As noted above I think they should also look into course conditions.  The fairways roll like greens out there.  I remember watching Berger hit bullets that carried 240 roll out to 310-320.  Were they perfectly placed?  Yes.  Was his 175mph ball speed a contributing factor?  Oh yeah. Would the ball react that way at a local muni?  Absolutely not.  If they want distance to come back to normal, raise the mowers in the fairway and rough.

 

Unlike baseball, top level amateurs don't have the chance (read dream) to play in a pro level event every year as the Opens provide.  Are top ranked amateurs expected to have two sets of clubs now for non-USGA events?  I'm sure manufacturers would get behind this.

 

[MtlJeff]

15 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Lots of truth in what you posted.

 

.1% of golfers are getting on TV, and, as they say, perception is reality.  I have long thought the easiest (though to some not very palatable) solution is a "game ball" for the pros.  Don't ask me where it should stop as far as to what level it should trickle down.  I will let the individual committee(s) make that decision based upon their field, the course(s) being played and the conditions.

 

It is the "wooden bat" of golf.  (Without making everyone go buy new $500 bats.)

 

I am totally fine with a game ball for the pros. Some people will say "when do you start using it" and that's where the slippery slope stuff comes in. Like USGA Am events? College golf etc.

 

Pro golf is just entertainment at the end of the day, like the NFL or NBA. Some sports have different rules in the pros for various reasons. If pro golf wants to, OK by me i guess. But i wonder who is watching golf less because of guys like Bryson, and i question Davis's comments about costs to maintain courses when realistically maybe 1-2% of the courses in the US could be 7400yds and still provide plenty of hosting opportunity for pro events.

 

I've used this example before but we don't judge the cost of maintaining a high school football field based on how much it costs to run SoFi stadium. The USGA seems to think you should. They only see Sofi stadiums--probably because that's all they care about

 

[smashdn]

6 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I am totally fine with a game ball for the pros. Some people will say "when do you start using it" and that's where the slippery slope stuff comes in. Like USGA Am events? College golf etc.

 

Pro golf is just entertainment at the end of the day, like the NFL or NBA. Some sports have different rules in the pros for various reasons. If pro golf wants to, OK by me i guess. But i wonder who is watching golf less because of guys like Bryson, and i question Davis's comments about costs to maintain courses when realistically maybe 1-2% of the courses in the US could be 7400yds and still provide plenty of hosting opportunity for pro events.

 

I've used this example before but we don't judge the cost of maintaining a high school football field based on how much it costs to run SoFi stadium. The USGA seems to think you should. They only see Sofi stadiums--probably because that's all they care about

 

 

I sort of question why there are 7400 yard courses, kept in condition to, but have no chance of hosting a pro event.  You must have a membership that wants/demands it.  But why?  Where did they get the idea that those conditions are the proper ones for golf?  I mean right now, today, what course in the US needs to be teed at >7200 yards and greens stimping 12? PGA National (and it isn't 7200 per the scorecard) and who else?

 

I don't think the last part is accurate at all.  You have a whole arm of the USGA (Greens Section) that helps all courses be maintained better and is there as a resource to help solve turf and cost issues if your course wants.  My guess is that they are talking to directors of golf and supers alike about how perceptions of conditions have changed and how that has added pressure, and cost, to maintaining and presenting a course in a certain way.  

[MtlJeff]

3 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I sort of question why there are 7400 yard courses, kept in condition to, but have no chance of hosting a pro event.  You must have a membership that wants/demands it.  But why?  Where did they get the idea that those conditions are the proper ones for golf?  I mean right now, today, what course in the US needs to be teed at >7200 yards and greens stimping 12? PGA National (and it isn't 7200 per the scorecard) and who else?

 

I don't think the last part is accurate at all.  You have a whole arm of the USGA (Greens Section) that helps all courses be maintained better and is there as a resource to help solve turf and cost issues if your course wants.  My guess is that they are talking to directors of golf and supers alike about how perceptions of conditions have changed and how that has added pressure, and cost, to maintaining and presenting a course in a certain way.  

 

Its just my perception, and it could be wrong. But i never understood Davis's comment from a few years back saying that distance had forced billions of dollars to be spent on changing golf courses. What was he referring to? Presenting a course a certain way, and conditions, isn't necessarily related to distance.

 

it came off as him implying all of these 7500yd courses were necessary. At least that's how i interpreted it

[596]

Don't change equipment. Narrower slower fairways, slower greens, unraked bunkers, longer rough.  That's all you need to stop the bomb and gouge.  

 

490 yard par 4 this past weekend was driver/pitching wedge.  That's stupid.  The tee shots were rolling 50 yards in the fairways.  That's nothing like courses people play every day.  Say it all you want, but we do not play the same game or courses the pros do.

[Nard_S]

 

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

But i never understood Davis's comment from a few years back saying that distance had forced billions of dollars to be spent on changing golf courses

My course, a municipal had to move out & increase size of the bunkers on the longer holes to match where balls were now landing compared to 25 years ago. They dropped a million doing it.

[elwhippy]

320 yards is a necked 3 wood for WRX members. Who are these pop guns claiming to be Tour Pros? Some of them don't even use tipped X7 shafts. 

[Christosterone]

 

[Christosterone]

 

[sittingbull]

I like the pro game now why change anything ? I look at it like this EVERY pro sport has gotten bigger faster etc etc..

Why does golf have to stop growing? Just my opinion dude

 

[NJBigFish22]

1 minute ago, sittingbull said:

I like the pro game now why change anything ? I look at it like this EVERY pro sport has gotten bigger faster etc etc..

Why does golf have to stop growing? Just my opinion dude

 

I agree that every sport/athlete has gotten bigger, faster, stronger, but I think the problem when it comes to golf, there is no defense.  The only defense could be the course or the equipment. Personally I’m not a fan of these tournaments going 20-25 under par.  I get they are pros, but shooting 8 under in back to back rounds tells me something needs to change.  10 under used to be considered a special round of golf by a guy just on top of his game (the zone) that day.

[ThinkingPlus]

I can't wait to see the ball spec the USGA writes up.🍿⁰

[nitram]

24 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I can't wait to see the ball spec the USGA writes up.🍿⁰

 

I agree 100%. Someone is going to be butt hurt regardless, but it's time for the governing body(s) to supply the ball.

[OBbogey5]

There were plenty of golfers on the courses with permission woods and “normal” lofted irons, and all types of golf balls in the past. And there will be golfers on the courses if these things return to that. I don’t think pros and hackers need to play different equipment (even though they will anyway, as they did 30, 40, 80 years ago). No idea why us non pros can’t get along without this ridiculous equipment. That’s a narrative the greedy golf equipment manufacturers push on us. If they stopped with the ridiculous drivers, woods, irons, and golf balls, we’d all still have a blast on the course with whatever is available to us in the bag. The ruling bodies need to govern. Then the manufacturers will produce. Then, we will all still play the game. Silly to think we won’t.