Rickie Fowler and John Tillery

[onthebogeytrain]

Not sure if there is a thread on this, as I'm somewhat new.

 

Has there ever been a worse coaching change/decision? Hard to believe the damage that has been done to Rickie's game since working with Tillery. I have followed his entire career really closely, and I just can't believe 1. he quit working with Butch and Claude and 2. that he is still with Tillery after these last couple years.

 

His instruction and coaching clearly works for some...but this is clearly not working. Am I missing something? 

Thoughts?

[dodint]

Rickie just isn't a high level tour player, regardless of how badly the networks want him to be. 

[BeaverPRO]

I figured after the year he finished 2nd in every major, i figured there was no way he was leaving the Harmon school.  Something must have happened personally that made him make that decision.  I also think his priorities have shifted with the birth of his daughter, so golf is not his sole priority at the moment.

[Scotty1140]

Every golfer has their ups and downs. Slumps happen to everyone. Him leaving the Harmons always seemed odd to me as well though. 

 

Unfortunately I think the biggest reason here is Fowler just isn't a top tier pro golfer like many try and make him out to be. And many people's expectations for him might need adjusting. It stinks because he seems like a genuinely good dude who represents the game well. 

[Sankacoffee]

I've always loved Rickie and agree that he's been overrated, but he was consistently in the top 10 for years. That consistency is pretty high level in my opinion, but you could argue he should have won more during those years. He was never on a Koepka/DJ/Spieth level at his best, but how many are? With so many young players coming up he's probably not a top 10-level talent guy anymore, but he certainly has more talent than most, despite his current state.

[ChipStrokes]

we’ve seen rickie’s last PGA tour win. 

[Ironman_32]

5 minutes ago, Sankacoffee said:

I've always loved Rickie and agree that he's been overrated, but he was consistently in the top 10 for years. That consistency is pretty high level in my opinion, but you could argue he should have won more during those years. He was never on a Koepka/DJ/Spieth level at his best, but how many are? With so many young players coming up he's probably not a top 10-level talent guy anymore, but he certainly has more talent than most, despite his current state.

I agree, but I think there are a lot of players who "should win more". It's very difficult to win though, could be 1 shot win over 4 days. (for example: one more putt goes in here or there and Chris DiMarco could have been a three time major winner).  

 

For a lot of players, they just get on streaks, sometimes its for weeks, sometimes its for years. That streak could be the #1 player in the world, or 120 on the money list one year. Maybe we've already seen his hot streak, and that was the best it will be. Think of all the players who were #1 at one point who are basically off the map, Adam Scott, Kaymer, Luke Donald, Jason Day, heck, even Brooks, DJ and Rory were on fire at one point. 

 

Everyone has a point though, Rickie probably has so much  money that he  could basically stop playing right now and be set. Maybe that's his motivation? 

[kwainio]

If you want a real sobering look, he's been the 5th worst player SG in the Top 150 over the past 3 months. The putting has fallen off a cliff. Really really bad.

 

https://datagolf.com/true-sg-query

[Sankacoffee]

Just now, Ironman_32 said:

I agree, but I think there are a lot of players who "should win more". It's very difficult to win though, could be 1 shot win over 4 days. (for example: one more putt goes in here or there and Chris DiMarco could have been a three time major winner).  

 

For a lot of players, they just get on streaks, sometimes its for weeks, sometimes its for years. That streak could be the #1 player in the world, or 120 on the money list one year. Maybe we've already seen his hot streak, and that was the best it will be. Think of all the players who were #1 at one point who are basically off the map, Adam Scott, Kaymer, Luke Donald, Jason Day, heck, even Brooks, DJ and Rory were on fire at one point. 

 

Everyone has a point though, Rickie probably has so much  money that he  could basically stop playing right now and be set. Maybe that's his motivation? 

I agree with pretty much all that you said. I guess I don't always understand people not liking Rickie because they say he is overrated, but I think that they really believe his popularity should only be reserved for the top few players in the world. I've never thought he was going to be an all-time great, but he's good for the game and his peak was higher than he gets credit for. Hopefully he has another peak in his career but who knows at this point.

[Cincy_Ken]

1 minute ago, Ironman_32 said:

I agree, but I think there are a lot of players who "should win more". It's very difficult to win though, could be 1 shot win over 4 days. (for example: one more putt goes in here or there and Chris DiMarco could have been a three time major winner).  

 

For a lot of players, they just get on streaks, sometimes its for weeks, sometimes its for years. That streak could be the #1 player in the world, or 120 on the money list one year. Maybe we've already seen his hot streak, and that was the best it will be. Think of all the players who were #1 at one point who are basically off the map, Adam Scott, Kaymer, Luke Donald, Jason Day, heck, even Brooks, DJ and Rory were on fire at one point. 

 

Everyone has a point though, Rickie probably has so much  money that he  could basically stop playing right now and be set. Maybe that's his motivation? 

Winning golf tournaments is so hard and I think with the Tiger era underestimate it.  John Rahm has been awesome the last couple years and has 1 PGA tour win to show for it in 21-22.  Rickie was a guy who was ranked in the top 10 but never approached the golfer John Rahm currently is.  For his level of ranking/talent around a win every other year prior to dropping off the planet in recent years to me felt about right

[onthebogeytrain]

1 hour ago, dodint said:

Rickie just isn't a high level tour player, regardless of how badly the networks want him to be. 

 

56 minutes ago, Scotty1140 said:

Every golfer has their ups and downs. Slumps happen to everyone. Him leaving the Harmons always seemed odd to me as well though. 

 

Unfortunately I think the biggest reason here is Fowler just isn't a top tier pro golfer like many try and make him out to be. And many people's expectations for him might need adjusting. It stinks because he seems like a genuinely good dude who represents the game well. 

What does high level mean to you two? from 2014-2019 (the Harmon years) he was consistently one of the top 15 players in the world. Maybe he didn't win as much as people (myself included) expected him to, but to say he was never "top tier" or "high level" is an underappreciation of how good he was, in my opinion.

[Sankacoffee]

5 minutes ago, kwainio said:

If you want a real sobering look, he's been the 5th worst player SG in the Top 150 over the past 3 months. The putting has fallen off a cliff. Really really bad.

 

https://datagolf.com/true-sg-query

That really is crazy. I don't know if the data backs this, but it felt like his swing went awry and then it took the putter with it. I used to love watching him putt with that Scotty.

[MattM97]

5 minutes ago, kwainio said:

If you want a real sobering look, he's been the 5th worst player SG in the Top 150 over the past 3 months. The putting has fallen off a cliff. Really really bad.

 

https://datagolf.com/true-sg-query

 

He's apparently in a Spider GT this week so he's trying anything and everything under the sun putter wise. 

[onthebogeytrain]

3 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

He's apparently in a Spider GT this week so he's trying anything and everything under the sun putter wise. 

used it last week too. Those putting numbers are atrocious. Hard to imagine going from 1st in SG Putting in 2017 to 205th this season

[MattM97]

8 minutes ago, onthebogeytrain said:

used it last week too. Those putting numbers are atrocious. Hard to imagine going from 1st in SG Putting in 2017 to 205th this season

 

I didn't see that I think in the past 2 years he's rotated through 4 different putters in tournaments and who knows how many in practice. 

[ChipStrokes]

10 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

I didn't see that I think in the past 2 years he's rotated through 4 different putters in tournaments and who knows how many in practice. 

4 putters in 2 years is child’s play on WRX

[DFS PFD]

I have no problem with Rickie's popularity or business model of being a walking billboard that is extremely charismatic. His commercial and off course revenue streams will surely be more lucrative than him being a dominant golfer would have ever made him. What bother's me is the media/niche WRX crowd's obsession with saying he is still one of the best golfers on the planet relative to his peers. He is no doubt a .01% top golfer relative to everyone in the golf field world wide. Within the field of his peers however, he certainly does not seem to be the cream of the crop, which is fine. I hope he has a great life and occasional hot streaks on tour, but I could care less if Rickie Kardashian's golf career faded into oblivion much like I wish Anthony Kim's (another WRX urban legend) would. I still believe Butch's comments about Rickie not being focused on golf even years ago, led to friction between them that was ever lasting. Butch wanted Rickie to live up to his potential, and Rickie wanted to get to the make up trailer of his Rocket Mortgage commercial. There's my (worthless) $0.02

[MattM97]

Just now, ChipStrokes said:

4 putters in 2 years is child’s play on WRX

 

Yeah but it's not my livelihood I'm playing for, it's an addiction and coping mechanism.  

[c7015]

Hope he gets his game back, even though he was from the child prodigy factory that was trying to reproduce Tigers and the media hyped up his potential, he is still a fun pro to watch. He could easily have a record similar to JT or Speith with a better closer mindset. 

 

 

[Fairway14]

2 hours ago, onthebogeytrain said:

Not sure if there is a thread on this, as I'm somewhat new.

 

Has there ever been a worse coaching change/decision?

 

Tiger and Sean Foley.

[Zitlow]

7 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Tiger and Sean Foley.

 

Leadbetter and Michelle Wie. 

[onthebogeytrain]

7 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Tiger and Sean Foley.

Health-wise, golf-wise, or both? The difference is that he's Tiger. He could have Larry the Cable Guy as his swing coach and still find a way to be competitive

[Frankensteins Monster]

Butch asked Rickie if he wanted to play a golfer on TV or be a golfer on TV. His performance after the question, and subsequent departure from the Harmon's, shows which he chose.

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, onthebogeytrain said:

Not sure if there is a thread on this, as I'm somewhat new.

 

Has there ever been a worse coaching change/decision? Hard to believe the damage that has been done to Rickie's game since working with Tillery. I have followed his entire career really closely, and I just can't believe 1. he quit working with Butch and Claude and 2. that he is still with Tillery after these last couple years.

 

His instruction and coaching clearly works for some...but this is clearly not working. Am I missing something? 

Thoughts?

Clearly he made his choice when Butch asked him if he wanted to be a Kardashian or a pro golfer… He said “I am going to be BOTH” and that was that. 😂 

[mikewilliams29]

As much as I want him to succeed you can just tell he knows he doesn't have it anymore. Body language is everything.

[Fairway14]

16 minutes ago, onthebogeytrain said:

Health-wise, golf-wise, or both? The difference is that he's Tiger. He could have Larry the Cable Guy as his swing coach and still find a way to be competitive

 

True. As a youth Tiger received sound fundamental technique instruction from Rudy Durant, which was later fine tuned by Butch Harmon. So, this proper instruction combined with Tiger's hard work ethic produced a foundation able to mostly withstand the harmful attacks to it by Haney, Foley and Como.

Ricky Fowler's technique never had an especially strong foundation so his game is more vulnerable to charlatan instructors than was Tiger's.

[Scotty1140]

1 hour ago, onthebogeytrain said:

 

What does high level mean to you two? from 2014-2019 (the Harmon years) he was consistently one of the top 15 players in the world. Maybe he didn't win as much as people (myself included) expected him to, but to say he was never "top tier" or "high level" is an underappreciation of how good he was, in my opinion.

 

You summed it up right there for me. Wins. 33 years old and only (for lack of a better word) 5 PGA Tour wins, with zero major victories. If we're talking top tier, sorry can't include him in that discussion.

 

Not trying to hate on the guy, I'm a Fowler fan. I hope he figures his game out.

[dodint]

Yeah, the thread was about the current state of his game. Right now he's not a contender. Maybe he will be again someday, but my guess is he continues to regress as age and whatever it is that's affected him continues to take its course. 

My issue as a viewer is that I'm not a Rickie fan and don't really need to see every shot of his rounds, particularly when he's usually on his way to missing the cut. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by dodint

[TiScape]

btw. Wasn’t there a really long “what up with Rickie?” thread quite recently??? So we’re doing this again already huh? 🤣

[Billfitz]

If you can't putt you won't win. Cantlay couldn't miss a putt at the end of last season and he won. Rickie has lost his putting mojo, his changing putters is an attempt to fix with equipment what's not working in his head. That seldom works out well.