Tee time policy / perspectives

[Shilgy]

13 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Nobody is saying no seniors on the weekend.  Every group like this I’ve ever seen is open to more players.  No matter the age.  What is a problem though is when folks just want to take over things that have been an understood compromise for a long time.   How would it be if a group complained and tried to take the ladies aux Tuesday morning times ? I see this as the same exact thing.  
 

Thank you for bringing up the weekday groups. I was just about to ask why they got preferential treatment ?  
 

this is the issue we working guys have.  Why is the Saturday morning comp not covered same as the ladies and seniors during the week ? 

Ladies day is ladies day…..what is the seniors you speak of?  Wednesday has a block for mens day as do most private clubs.  Why should your group….and that is what it truly is is just a group of guys…get blocked times when no one else does?  As I mentioned a public course I do understand catering to regulars and a semi private is essentially that so I do understand your situation.  But then I also understand other “members” saying “what about me”?  If they are paying the same annual rate why would they never have access to early morning times on weekends?  That is why my club removed all group blocks.  Fair access to all members.

 

PS again….after reading more of your replies to others….you have repeatedly commented on “ seniors” day.  Where did you get that?  I never said anything about seniors just that Wednesday morning is a couple g hours of mens day.  Which by the way you would be welcome to join.  
  Are you really implying that all members should be able to play as often as others?  So retirees MUST play only during the week so you and your gang that are younger can have the course weekends?  Sorry but that is not fair access.  

[bladehunter]

23 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Ladies day is ladies day…..what is the seniors you speak of?  Wednesday has a block for mens day as do most private clubs.  Why should your group….and that is what it truly is is just a group of guys…get blocked times when no one else does?  As I mentioned a public course I do understand catering to regulars and a semi private is essentially that so I do understand your situation.  But then I also understand other “members” saying “what about me”?  If they are paying the same annual rate why would they never have access to early morning times on weekends?  That is why my club removed all group blocks.  Fair access to all members.

 

PS again….after reading more of your replies to others….you have repeatedly commented on “ seniors” day.  Where did you get that?  I never said anything about seniors just that Wednesday morning is a couple g hours of mens day.  Which by the way you would be welcome to join.  
  Are you really implying that all members should be able to play as often as others?  So retirees MUST play only during the week so you and your gang that are younger can have the course weekends?  Sorry but that is not fair access.  

I’ve known Wednesday to be the morning for most courses to have senior mens dogfights etc.  here they call ours the “ hump day hackers “.  Senior men 2 hours of blocked times. 
 

 

no I’m not saying” no seniors “ on the weekend. Of course not. I’m simply saying that there should be a group of blocked times for a dogfight on Saturday morning. This allows access for people who cannot play during the week .  These same seniors can and do play in the one at our course.in fact we have about a 50/50 split of retired vs working age men.  And would not care one bit if women played. We play a stableford game. So it’s easy enough to Play from different tees and keep a points book and have fair play.  
 

  But if they came in and tried to unblock our dogfight time , it would get very loud very quickly.  And I truly don’t understand why anyone would have issue with a group like ours.   Especially since the exact time of day isn’t so important….it could be 12 10 930 etc. . it’s the consistency of that time that is.  If you I have a wife and kid , it is a known thing that “ dad plays Saturday at xyz time “ this keeps conflict out every week when the question gets asked “ what time is your tee time Saturday “  if it’s the same time. No discussion needed. Same reason why the Wednesday “ mens” or “senior mens “ blocked times are also the same. Nobody likes a fluid schedule on something like that.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by bladehunter

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Only difference is the day of the week.  What other difference is there ? 

 

Seems to me you are trolling so I will not dignify answering.

[bladehunter]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Seems to me you are trolling so I will not dignify answering.

With all due respect. I’ve asked a simple question or pointed out the opposite of what many claimed at the beginning of this thread. and got no real response, except the repeating of a few catch phrases ,  And the mental gymnastics it takes to claim that blocking times on several days is cool , but on others forbidden. 
 

   Calling that trolling  is just another form of deflection.  This is a real topic and a hot button one for many club memberships.  Why not engage the conversation based on merits of your stance , vs resorting to name calling ? 
 

you asked me a question and I have a honest answer.  Why is Saturday more sacred than Tuesday? You’ll answer “ higher demand “. Ok. Why does demand go up “ ?  Answer folks are off work.  Which is how my point or opinion is formed.  That you don’t react to higher demand by shutting out that demand. You make room for it.  
 

This is how clubs die.  They don’t replenish the membership with working age , junior and even ladies members. To do so means making room.  I’m not trolling.  I’m asking for your rebuttal to that …. Why shouldn’t there be a weekend blocked time for members to play in a organized  game ?   Remember. It’s open to all.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by bladehunter

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

This is how clubs die.  They don’t replenish the membership with working age , junior and even ladies members. To do so means making room.  I’m not trolling.  I’m asking for your rebuttal to that …. Why shouldn’t there be a weekend blocked time for members to play in a organized  game ?   Remember. It’s open to all.  

 

Here's a counter point. We're a private club and up until the 2020 season our intermediates had full booking privileges but payed 1/3 the full member rate.

 

When covid hit and tee time availability was scarce guess which group was pissed off? The full members. The intermediates, who generally had not kids and more flexible schedules, were freezing out the full paying members not only only weekends but weekends too. 

 

We essentially doubled out intermediate rates with the express purpose of losing some of them. The loss in revenue from the intermediates, who are more likely to play and leave, vs the full members was a non issue.

 

Given that weekend times are more desirable any restriction to those is going to be a hard sell in a crowded environment. No matter how open you think the money game is there are people who simply don't want to play in it. And if they want to play in that time slot for scheduling reasons why should they be blocked out? Just because there's been a block for many years doesn't mean it should still be there now. Times have changed.

 

Take our men's league. For many years it has been run as a crossover to maximize the number of players. It's fully subscribed. Covid restrictions meant we couldn't run the crossover any more so now we run it as straight tee times. And even if you are in the league you still need to submit a tee time ballot and you won't always get your desired slot.

[bladehunter]

27 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

Here's a counter point. We're a private club and up until the 2020 season our intermediates had full booking privileges but payed 1/3 the full member rate.

 

When covid hit and tee time availability was scarce guess which group was pissed off? The full members. The intermediates, who generally had not kids and more flexible schedules, were freezing out the full paying members not only only weekends but weekends too. 

 

We essentially doubled out intermediate rates with the express purpose of losing some of them. The loss in revenue from the intermediates, who are more likely to play and leave, vs the full members was a non issue.

 

Given that weekend times are more desirable any restriction to those is going to be a hard sell in a crowded environment. No matter how open you think the money game is there are people who simply don't want to play in it. And if they want to play in that time slot for scheduling reasons why should they be blocked out? Just because there's been a block for many years doesn't mean it should still be there now. Times have changed.

 

Take our men's league. For many years it has been run as a crossover to maximize the number of players. It's fully subscribed. Covid restrictions meant we couldn't run the crossover any more so now we run it as straight tee times. And even if you are in the league you still need to submit a tee time ballot and you won't always get your desired slot.

I’d agree there. Full members should get preferred everything.  I’d be a full member or not at all , anywhere I cared to join. Just to get the preferred angle. 
 

times  indeed have changed. Once several moons ago , one could walk onto the course any weekday after 3 in the summer and be alone.  Can’t do it now.   Grow the game they said. It will be fun they said.  Baloney.  But I digress. 
 

as for blocking a weekend time slot.  You’re for a lottery then ?  ( can’t recall from previous posts ).  How does this work ?  Individual lottery or 4 some lottery ?  I can’t imagine how this is preferable if it’s individual.  
 

seems very odd to me that anyone would pay for this headache weekly.  Maybe it’s an issue only in places with few courses ?  I’m in a place that I can think of 25-30 inside 30 minutes.  We see a ton of play. But at the same time , one guys $ is worth the same as the other .  Why would you throw out guaranteed $ for the hope to make it back somewhere else ? In your example I get it. You have two tiers of members.and the tier  who pays more should get more.   At my place there is none.  It’s full or none.  
 

So we advertise it as this “ want to  play early Saturday ? come join the dogfight “.   Participation is encouraged.  Not denied.  There’s a signup sheet in the pro shop , along with a group text that’s sent Thursday to confirm participation.  This way they know how many times to block.   They’ll block 6/7 times if we have confirmed participation.  It fluctuates with the seasons. In winter sometimes we’re down to 8 guys.  In summer it’s 5-7 groups.    I understand some  don’t want to play with others.  How many members do you put out for that random 4 some that doesn’t enjoy company ? 

[jvincent]

32 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

as for blocking a weekend time slot.  You’re for a lottery then ?  ( can’t recall from previous posts ).  How does this work ?  Individual lottery or 4 some lottery ?  I can’t imagine how this is preferable if it’s individual.  

 

We are a lottery. It runs using a differential system so that you accumulate preference the more you miss your requested slots. For example if you get what you request you get a 0 differential. If you miss by 2 hours, you get 120 minutes. It's based on the total differential for the foursome so if you get a big miss you should get your time, or very close to it, the next couple of times.

 

It works pretty well. Over the two covid summers I'll say that I missed my requested time badly maybe 4-5 times.  When that happens we just cancel the time and look for single slots or cancellations. Lottery requests are made two weeks in advance and it's run a week in advance so there's plenty of time to juggle. Overall, it works very well I think and we need that system because the club is very active.

 

 

[klebs01]

Some interesting perspectives. Makes me glad to be a member at an equity club with limited membership.  Current and past clubs have been able to easily manage groups on Saturday mornings by having members book times a week out. It’s seems there are bigger issues at a club if tee times are this big of a problem or the members can’t come to a reasonable compromise. 

[SNIPERBBB]

I think the clubs decision to not allow the block of times should tell you that the game is no longer tolerated. Unless your can get the guys that play the game to have more influence within the club to get the policy changed again, you're just going to be continually frustrated. I would try to get them to make this a club sanctioned event with rules and sign-ups posted well in advance.

[raynorfan1]

On 2/28/2022 at 1:13 PM, bladehunter said:

So we advertise it as this “ want to  play early Saturday ? come join the dogfight “.   Participation is encouraged.  Not denied.  There’s a signup sheet in the pro shop , along with a group text that’s sent Thursday to confirm participation.  This way they know how many times to block.   They’ll block 6/7 times if we have confirmed participation.  It fluctuates with the seasons. In winter sometimes we’re down to 8 guys.  In summer it’s 5-7 groups.    I understand some  don’t want to play with others.  How many members do you put out for that random 4 some that doesn’t enjoy company ? 

 

Have you ever considered that the language you use to describe your Saturday morning game might matter?

 

While I respect that it is a 'term of art' in golf circles, I can't imagine women or novice golfers feeling welcome at a tournament called a "dogfight". Of course you say they are welcome, but then you frame it in a way that might not be appealing.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, raynorfan1 said:

 

Have you ever considered that the language you use to describe your Saturday morning game might matter?

 

While I respect that it is a 'term of art' in golf circles, I can't imagine women or novice golfers feeling welcome at a tournament called a "dogfight". Of course you say they are welcome, but then you frame it in a way that might not be appealing.

Sure. I’ve actually said this out loud .  Was met by blank stares from the other 4 committee members.  Which is common. I’m the youngest of the 5.  Im42.  So you get where this usually goes.  They let me speak , nod  a few times and then change the subject. 
 

i think it’s a fine line.  We want to welcome all. To play in the game that exists now.  We do not want to gain participants who wish to change the game to something watered down .  If that makes sense.  This will turn into a overall wash or loss in participation.  All of the regular players now come to compete. It’s not a social event.  So it’s a careful balance to keep.  

[mshills]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:41 PM, Augster said:

Unfortunately, eventually, you’ll get guys that want to play with the group, but don’t want to be in the money game. They just want to play in the standing tee times. When that happens, which it will, someone in charge will have to say, “Get your own tee times. These times are for the guys in the money game.”  Then that person feels excluded, gets butt hurt, and you wind up asking the questions in the OP post. 

 

I don't think anyone is butt hurt here.  My arse is fine -- I'm not the member, but I'm posing the question as it came up when I was having drinks with my buddy who is the club member.  He is curious about others' experiences and is trying to stay out of all the politics on this, as he's a new member of the club.  I can also attest first-hand that it seems a very friendly group....so as mentioned earlier, very much a lose-lose situation.

[Augster]

4 hours ago, mshills said:

 

I don't think anyone is butt hurt here.  My arse is fine -- I'm not the member, but I'm posing the question as it came up when I was having drinks with my buddy who is the club member.  He is curious about others' experiences and is trying to stay out of all the politics on this, as he's a new member of the club.  I can also attest first-hand that it seems a very friendly group....so as mentioned earlier, very much a lose-lose situation.

I was speaking from my own experience. This is exactly what has happened at our club. 
 

When there are 16 names on the 4 weekend tee times, and 7 of them won’t be in the skins game and are just out to play “for fun”, the skins game is smaller. All 16 of those times used to be exclusively skins game tee times. 
 

So eventually, the guy that makes the tee times had to tell the other guys they aren’t welcome if they are going to take a spot but not be in the game. That went over really well. 
 

The guys that were told “Get in the skins game or get your own tee times” were butt hurt, and pressured the club to get rid of our skins game. Now any tee times made for the club are “anyone can play” and any skins we do has to be made on the first tee. So the skins game is a lot, lot smaller. Lucky to get 7 guys in 4 groups. 
 

At one point we were making 6 tee times, 24 guys, all in the skins game on both weekend days. There was good money in it if you got lucky to get one. Now, you have to get 2 skins just to break even. 

[mshills]

My mistake, misinterpreted your post.  What you're describing there really sucks.

 

Overall, I don't think there is a mechanical, elegant solution at all, and there is definitely no way for everyone to be happy.  There has to be some common sense and judgment applied.  Many times that doesn't happen.

[david.c.w]

14 hours ago, Augster said:

I was speaking from my own experience. This is exactly what has happened at our club. 
 

When there are 16 names on the 4 weekend tee times, and 7 of them won’t be in the skins game and are just out to play “for fun”, the skins game is smaller. All 16 of those times used to be exclusively skins game tee times. 
 

So eventually, the guy that makes the tee times had to tell the other guys they aren’t welcome if they are going to take a spot but not be in the game. That went over really well. 
 

The guys that were told “Get in the skins game or get your own tee times” were butt hurt, and pressured the club to get rid of our skins game. Now any tee times made for the club are “anyone can play” and any skins we do has to be made on the first tee. So the skins game is a lot, lot smaller. Lucky to get 7 guys in 4 groups. 
 

At one point we were making 6 tee times, 24 guys, all in the skins game on both weekend days. There was good money in it if you got lucky to get one. Now, you have to get 2 skins just to break even. 

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but @Augstersituation is the perfect example of the overall issue

 

Augster and his buddies were super happy because they had a full hour blocked out every Saturday and Sunday.  Very little effort.  Consistent game.  Good buddies.  Years of history and stories.  My guess is that these tee times are prime times.

 

@mshillsbuddy is honked off because he is half the age of Augster, hates skins, prefers playing a Nassau, and will never get to play at the prime time.  The buddy probably paid 2x initiation as Augster, and Augster might even be on senior dues.  Yet the buddy has to navigate Augster's block, as well as other established blocks.

 

At the end of the day there needs to figure out a way to accommodate all members.  Mshills buddy probably has the exact club stature as Augster.  Clubs need to find a way to be inclusive while respecting tradition.  You cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time.  

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by david.c.w
spelling

[djmohab2]

Yet again, another fine example of how our elders expect everything to cater to them. It's not enough that these older players, many of which are retired, can play any day of the week, and likely do have a senior dogfight day midweek, but they have to take up all of the prime tee times on the days that us working young adults have off. Meanwhile the younger members, who may have young kids at home, have to be thankful for whatever scraps the "mayors" of these clubs toss at us. And we're paying the same amount.

[North Butte]

It seems to me at a private club it's perfectly reasonable for groups (larger than a foursome) to want to play together at the same day and time year after year. That just seems so much part of the essence of private club membership, I have a hard time understanding why it would be seen as a negative. 

 

Like everything in life, there are limits to even a reasonable thing. But the point at which standing games take up "too much" of the tee sheet is a matter of club politics, to be haggled over and negociated by the board or directors or whatever entity sets club policy. Most clubs in my experience would lose members if they strictly said no standing groups but they'd also lose members if they let the standing groups basically shut down the course for normal member play for half the day on Saturdays or something like that.

 

So it's a matter of finding a balance. And that balance is probably different for every club. 

 

[naval2006]

All this sounds a bit too strange for me.  Pardon my ignorance.  But you mean a bunch of guys have a handful of tee-times blocked every Saturday morning whether they show up or not and a private club allows this?  Wow, hard to believe, I must be missing something in between.  How come other members that pay their dues do not complain? Or how does the club support this system that comes from "the old days and does not respect all the memebers of the club?  Looks like the policy-makers own the blocked tee times.  Or some dollars are better than others.

[North Butte]

10 hours ago, naval2006 said:

All this sounds a bit too strange for me.  Pardon my ignorance.  But you mean a bunch of guys have a handful of tee-times blocked every Saturday morning whether they show up or not and a private club allows this?  Wow, hard to believe, I must be missing something in between.  How come other members that pay their dues do not complain? Or how does the club support this system that comes from "the old days and does not respect all the members of the club?  Looks like the policy-makers own the blocked tee times.  Or some dollars are better than others.

I've belonged to two private clubs in USA and one (as an overseas member) in UK. All three have certain days and times blocked out for games that any member is welcome to show up and play in. I think it has been one of the best features of private club membership in my experience. I'm fine playing solo rounds but I also like being able to show up at Noon on a Wednesday and know there will be 6, 8, 10 other guys (most of whom I've played with before) there are ready to tee off in a friendly, low-stakes game. 

 

It's not a matter of certain individuals getting special treatment. It's something that's there for the club's members to participate in. Just like once in a while they block off an entire weekend for a Member-Member tournament or some silly hit and giggle scramble event on a Sunday afternoon for husbands and wives to play in. 

 

As I said in my previous replay, I would not care to be a member of a club where massive chunks of the weekly tee sheet were filled with large groups and it was difficult for a normal foursome to get a tee time. But I've never encountered a club where that was anywhere near being a problem. 

 

For new members in particular, being told that Saturdays at 11:00 there's a $50 Skins game and Wednesdays/Fridays at 10:00 there's a $10 points game if you want to play...that's a great thing. And it's obviously popular among a large number of the members or those games would not have anybody show up. None of that is possible if it's at some random day and time some weeks and not others. And how would YOU propose that groups larger than a foursome be allocated tee times, if not in a set-aside block? 

[Mudguard]

13 hours ago, North Butte said:

It seems to me at a private club it's perfectly reasonable for groups (larger than a foursome) to want to play together at the same day and time year after year. That just seems so much part of the essence of private club membership, I have a hard time understanding why it would be seen as a negative. 

 

As long as members have equal access to those times. 

Our tee sheet opens two weeks in advance every day at 6:00AM. So on a Saturday morning you better up and ready with your mouse. That's the fairest way. 

[North Butte]

Just now, Mudguard said:

As long as members have equal access to those times. 

Our tee sheet opens two weeks in advance every day at 6:00AM. So on a Saturday morning you better up and ready with your mouse. That's the fairest way. 

Except there's no way for 20 guys to play together, ever, if Saturday morning tee times would mean five people somehow win the jackpot each and every week to get five tee times together. At clubs I've belonged to there are plenty of groups larger than a foursome who belong to the club exactly because it's where they play in a couple of set games every week.

 

As I said earlier, it comes down to club politics and negociation to find an acceptable way to accommodate members who want to play together in a four-ball Nassau AND those who want to participate in roll-up games AND those who want to part of a large group that plays together on a weekly basis. 

[Mudguard]

3 minutes ago, North Butte said:

And how would YOU propose that groups larger than a foursome be allocated tee times, if not in a set-aside block? 

 

Reminds me of my old club, where the committee would block off whole days for member shotguns and only have thirty people play. Or blocking off an hour or two's worth of tee times for someone event and some 150 members would try squeeze in the other times.

 

As for larger groups, you simply have to run the comp over the whole day rather than freezing out tee times. We've had a few Saturdays where the competition for the day was some strange format, we just paid out entry and played our own ball. Plenty of us only get to play once a week so don't want to waste our one round on some teams' hit and giggle. 

[Mudguard]

2 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Except there's no way for 20 guys to play together

But again, that's kind of the point. Why should  the twenty get to play together? Playing devil's advocate, say I have hundred players who all want to play together. Oh we'll take the whole day thanks... Obviously being pedantic, but block booking really ought to only be on quiet days. Certainly not weekends. We have about 700 members of which perhaps 200 are vying for weekend times so there's absolutely no standing bookings

[SNIPERBBB]

On 4/28/2022 at 11:42 AM, david.c.w said:

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but @Augstersituation is the perfect example of the overall issue

 

Augster and his buddies were super happy because they had a full hour blocked out every Saturday and Sunday.  Very little effort.  Consistent game.  Good buddies.  Years of history and stories.  My guess is that these tee times are prime times.

 

@mshillsbuddy is honked off because he is half the age of Augster, hates skins, prefers playing a Nassau, and will never get to play at the prime time.  The buddy probably paid 2x initiation as Augster, and Augster might even be on senior dues.  Yet the buddy has to navigate Augster's block, as well as other established blocks.

 

At the end of the day there needs to figure out a way to accommodate all members.  Mshills buddy probably has the exact club stature as Augster.  Clubs need to find a way to be inclusive while respecting tradition.  You cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time.  

 

 

One thing that would help in this situation is not to have the money games blocked during the prime time of tee times.  From May till October, our money game block is 10 am, November-April its 11. This lets the dew sweepers and the guys that want to beat the heat, even here in southern Ohio, play.

 

Personally as to the non-competitors in the money game groups, that should be absolutely not tolerated. Its just easier to be sure that everyone is playing with the same etiquette and PoP rules if they are in the game. I've seen it happen too many times where the non-competitors being careless or holding things up.

[North Butte]

6 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

One thing that would help in this situation is not to have the money games blocked during the prime time of tee times.  From May till October, our money game block is 10 am, November-April its 11. This lets the dew sweepers and the guys that want to beat the heat, even here in southern Ohio, play.

 

That has typically been the experience at clubs I've belonged to. Late morning (10am, 11am) or mid-late afternoon (2:30pm, 3:00pm) 

[klebs01]

14 hours ago, Mudguard said:

But again, that's kind of the point. Why should  the twenty get to play together? Playing devil's advocate, say I have hundred players who all want to play together. Oh we'll take the whole day thanks... Obviously being pedantic, but block booking really ought to only be on quiet days. Certainly not weekends. We have about 700 members of which perhaps 200 are vying for weekend times so there's absolutely no standing bookings

54 holes? That just seems like an issue of way too many members. I couldn’t imagine joining a club with over 300 per 18. 
 

I value these games and wish my current club had more of them. At my first club there was a standing game at 930 on Saturdays. Just shoot the guy that ran the game a message and he would put you on the sheet. He would get all the tee times 7 days in advance. Some churn would always happen in that week, but if you dropped out too many times you wouldn’t get put on the sheet. Probably about 4-8 consecutive tee times. Not sure why this type of situation would anger anyone. Seems like one of exact reason private clubs exist. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by klebs01

[mshills]

I started this thread as I’m getting back on the course after a hiatus and want to join a club….mostly because finding an organized game at a public course is damn near impossible. 
 

The perspectives are really interesting….there are lots of ways to handle scheduling, but the more I think about it, regardless of how a club handles it, the following are really important:

• IF there is a standing game permitted, it MUST be run as open to any member who wants to participate, no exceptions. 
• If you show up for the standing game, you MUST participate in the game. None of this “I don’t like playing for money” or “too rich for me” or “I haven’t played for a while” hot garbage that @Augster experienced at his place. 

[Shilgy]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:42 AM, david.c.w said:

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but @Augstersituation is the perfect example of the overall issue

 

Augster and his buddies were super happy because they had a full hour blocked out every Saturday and Sunday.  Very little effort.  Consistent game.  Good buddies.  Years of history and stories.  My guess is that these tee times are prime times.

 

@mshillsbuddy is honked off because he is half the age of Augster, hates skins, prefers playing a Nassau, and will never get to play at the prime time.  The buddy probably paid 2x initiation as Augster, and Augster might even be on senior dues.  Yet the buddy has to navigate Augster's block, as well as other established blocks.

 

At the end of the day there needs to figure out a way to accommodate all members.  Mshills buddy probably has the exact club stature as Augster.  Clubs need to find a way to be inclusive while respecting tradition.  You cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time.  

 

 

Initiation amount  paid and dues rate has nothing to do with it. And it cannot. A member is a member in that regard.  Over the years they both fluctuate based on market price.

  Many on this thread have mentioned fairness and such.  You don’t think many clubs do, and should, slightly cater to those that spend the most time and fortune at the club?  You think the guy that plays a couple times per year should have the same time as a guy that brings a group of 12 every week and stays for lunch after?  
 As for the “working man” vs retired guy on weekends routine….you want fairness but also want to tell the retiree to step aside because you are more  important on weekends? Nuts!

[david.c.w]

28 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Initiation amount  paid and dues rate has nothing to do with it. And it cannot. A member is a member in that regard.  Over the years they both fluctuate based on market price.

  Many on this thread have mentioned fairness and such.  You don’t think many clubs do, and should, slightly cater to those that spend the most time and fortune at the club?  You think the guy that plays a couple times per year should have the same time as a guy that brings a group of 12 every week and stays for lunch after?  
 As for the “working man” vs retired guy on weekends routine….you want fairness but also want to tell the retiree to step aside because you are more  important on weekends? Nuts!

 

A member is a member and no member or group of members should get preferential treatment.

[mshills]

5 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

A member is a member and no member or group of members should get preferential treatment.

Full member to full member, absolutely. But when a club introduces official tiers, IMO the junior exec type categories should have lower priority on tee times, etc. than full members.