Thoughts on putting coaches

[kekoa]

Just curious.  What are thoughts on putting specific coaches.  Do most of you guys use one and how have results been?   Putting is such a mental and feel aspect of the game.  Can a coach really help or is a junior better off practicing with the help of aids etc.   My son used to be a very good putter and hardly ever practiced.  What drives me crazy is before a tournament round he just steps on the practice green with one ball and hits random putts.  Sees a buddy and starts chit chatting. In years past, my  would make almost everything within 10 feet and was also good for bombs on occasion, which really helps a good round become great.  I see older kids sit on a putting green for an hour or two and just putt.  I wish my kid would do this, but I've pretty much given up.     I'm pondering the idea of getting a putting coach for him, but not sure it would be worth it right now.

 

Thanks

[darter79]

16 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Just curious.  What are thoughts on putting specific coaches.  Do most of you guys use one and how have results been?   Putting is such a mental and feel aspect of the game.  Can a coach really help or is a junior better off practicing with the help of aids etc.   My son used to be a very good putter and hardly ever practiced.  What drives me crazy is before a tournament round he just steps on the practice green with one ball and hits random putts.  Sees a buddy and starts chit chatting. In years past, my  would make almost everything within 10 feet and was also good for bombs on occasion, which really helps a good round become great.  I see older kids sit on a putting green for an hour or two and just putt.  I wish my kid would do this, but I've pretty much given up.     I'm pondering the idea of getting a putting coach for him, but not sure it would be worth it right now.

 

Thanks

I know a few juniors who have short game coaches, some break it down more. First off where are you finding these putting only coaches. But why not just have a putting lesson with his coach? I get there are some coaches who claim to be putting guru type of guys. Find it interesting it happens at such a young age. But I'll add if it helps with putting then why not go for it. Is it the putter? Some putters you don't see the line as clean as you would like to. Have you considered a putter fitting ? 

[heavy_hitter]

I think getting with a putting coach a few times a year is a good thing.  I wouldn't just go with a random coach.  I would find someone with a SAM putt lab.  That person can then analyze stroke, alignment, eyes.  Once stroke and correct putter is dialed in, it is all about drills and practice.  My kid has a gorgeous and expensive putting stroke.  SAM putt lab told him his $15.00 Carolyn Yes putter was the most accurate putter he owned of the 10 (Kronos, Bettinardi, Scotty, Argolf, TM, Odyssey, you get the drill).  

 

Players are all different.  You have guys that will spend 10 minutes putting 10 minutes on the range and go play.  Even on the PGA tour level.  You then have the guys that spend an hour at the range and an hour putting.  Every person is different.  My kid is going to putt for 10-15 minutes and will do a couple of drills.  If he spends longer than that he starts thinking too much about the day (expectations).  Practice for him is done the day before a tournament or after the round.

 

Putting comes and goes.  Missing the ones he used to make could just be a matter of growth and his alignment, eye line, and now stance is off.  It happens.  

[wildcatden]

Last time we saw a coach, we just spent part of the time on putting.   Our putting is hit and miss, but certainly related to practice time. 

[tiger1873]

My daughter has had an off again and on again with putting which is completely normal.  Last few months we been working on putting and starting to see results.

 

We do work with a  top level putting coach.    We needed this because quite simply I needed an extra set of eyes on this.  Having a team that knows what to look for helps a lot especially when putts are dropping with instructor and practice but not in tournaments.    But we had an issue that was simply hard to detect without some help and equipment.  

 

before this coach tried other short game coaches but they were more or less teaching their putting stroke.  Wasn't bad but it also didn't really help that much under pressure.  If your totally lost this approach is ok but if you had success naturally then be careful. 

 

The trick I learned is finding out what works for the individual.  A lot advice just simply doesn't work for everyone. That means you need to understand why a putt didn't go in. 99% of players don't have a clue why they miss a putt. 

 

If your kid is growing though you have to accept that putting will be off for a while and it might seem like you went backwards but that is normal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

Most juniors don’t need a putting coach. If you want to work with someone call CZ and set something up. If you need his number DM me. 
 

I’ll tell you though, he won’t mess with the stroke. It’s all gamification drills. 
 

If you want a guy like Derek then you can pay $500/hr or work with Preston at $1.500 for a half day in Florida. He’ll come back to Cali if you can get 4-5 people to pay the $1,500 each for a half day group thing. 

[kekoa]

Thanks guys.  We did a bit of putting during our last lesson with my son's coach as it was getting dark.  I'm not convinced that good instructors are also putting gurus.   We need to get on some putting apparatus soon as I just don't think he is aligning correctly.   Putter is aimed one way and his feet appear open.   @leezer99 I'll send you a PM.  I have no idea who CZ is.

 

Another issue mentioned above is the putter length.  That may be an issue as well as he has grown a lot, but we never extended his putter.

 

 

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Most juniors don’t need a putting coach. If you want to work with someone call CZ and set something up. If you need his number DM me. 
 

I’ll tell you though, he won’t mess with the stroke. It’s all gamification drills. 
 

If you want a guy like Derek then you can pay $500/hr or work with Preston at $1.500 for a half day in Florida. He’ll come back to Cali if you can get 4-5 people to pay the $1,500 each for a half day group thing. 

if your paying $500 or more an hour for a junior lesson someone is scamming you or just doesn’t think your kid is any good.
 

Pretty sure you can see some the best instructors in the world for a lot less money.  

 

The issue isn’t money but will they see in the first place.   Even if they don’t see you they have people you can see at a rate that is reasonable.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by tiger1873

[Medson]

A few thoughts:

• Maybe manage the expectations a little bit. PGA Tour pro, on average, is 40% from 10 feet. They are 50/50 from 8 feet. 
• From stats perspective, it might be helpful to break putts into short/medium/long. And see where the opportunity is. 
• We try to do some putting fundamental regularly (once a week during off season, more during summer). I found my daughter's putting fundamental went south quickly if we don't check once a week. If we do check once a week, it's just maintenance work. Quick and smooth. If we do check less often, oh boy ~~~ Lots of arguments back and forth. 

[leezer99]

One thing I would recommend every user on this forum to consider is using the ignore feature for certain users.  I have found that it makes this site much more tolerable.  Just hover over the profile and then click the Ignore button to start receiving helpful content without a bunch of unsubstantiated comments.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by leezer99
added content

[kelpie]

Get the basics and fundamentals down then let them be free. Like Brad Faxon says, "be an artist." Don't let your son get bogged down with mechanics. Find a couple decent simple training aids, mirrors, strings, and let them hit some putts. And I wouldn't expect them to spend hours on the putting green. Most kids, and adults, have short attention spans and will lose focus after a short time. Once they start seeing some positive results, they will naturally spend more time there, but I don't think more time on the green means better results. Quality not quantity! I've found that if kids get too technical they start thinking about stroke instead of making a putt during a round. Help them learn how to read greens and get good speed down. Direction will come, speed is king. 

[hangontight]

14 hours ago, kekoa said:

Thanks guys.  We did a bit of putting during our last lesson with my son's coach as it was getting dark.  I'm not convinced that good instructors are also putting gurus.   We need to get on some putting apparatus soon as I just don't think he is aligning correctly.   Putter is aimed one way and his feet appear open.   @leezer99 I'll send you a PM.  I have no idea who CZ is.

 

Another issue mentioned above is the putter length.  That may be an issue as well as he has grown a lot, but we never extended his putter.

 

 

- Agree that good swing coach doesn't always mean good putting coach - in fact, have heard at least two good instructors admit on podcasts they are trying to learn how to teach putting better.  I think an "expectation" coach would be better for putting.  My son has improved lately as he is learning on where to LEAVE his first putt.  

- My son is 11 - it took me too long to figure out that trying to incorporate detailed green reading & putting routines is always followed by bad spells of putting.   It gets him thinking too much.  For now at least, he is better off relying on feel & instinct.  

- Alignment -  His predominant miss is a pull (like 90% of the time)...I can tell him until my face is blue that there is a reason for that but he is blind to it, haha.  Same as you, I can see his setup is twisted.  Simple alignment station with rod at his toes and a tee gate about a 12" out is best ...try to start each practice on this for 5 minutes......one day he will recognize that he keeps hitting the left tee!  

 

He still benefits most from games & challenges.  Tailoring the objective or rules within the game to habits we want helps.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by hangontight

[wildcatden]

40 minutes ago, hangontight said:

- Agree that good swing coach doesn't always mean good putting coach - in fact, have heard at least two good instructors admit on podcasts they are trying to learn how to teach putting better.  I think an "expectation" coach would be better for putting.  My son has improved lately as he is learning on where to LEAVE his first putt.  

- My son is 11 - it took me too long to figure out that trying to incorporate detailed green reading & putting routines is always followed by bad spells of putting.   It gets him thinking too much.  For now at least, he is better off relying on feel & instinct.  

- Alignment -  His predominant miss is a pull (like 90% of the time)...I can tell him until my face is blue that there is a reason for that but he is blind to it, haha.  Same as you, I can see his setup is twisted.  Simple alignment station with rod at his toes and a tee gate about a 12" out is best ...try to start each practice on this for 5 minutes......one day he will recognize that he keeps hitting the left tee!  

 

He still benefits most from games & challenges.  Tailoring the objective or rules within the game to habits we want helps.  

 

We take a similar approach as well. There is typically some time spent (~10 minutes) at the beginning of the putting practice to focus on mechanics (ex: Tiger's tee drill) and drills (putting around the circle, lag putting or seeing how many out of 25 from 3ft, 4ft, 5ft he can hit).  After that it tends to be games that he likes to make up. 

 

Alignment is also always a big one for us. He tends to get his feet closed. His accuracy and distance control suffer when he gets into this mode. Like @hangontight my face is blue as the sky from mentioning this setup/alignment correction to the n-millionth time.

[jj9000]

15 hours ago, kekoa said:

Thanks guys.  We did a bit of putting during our last lesson with my son's coach as it was getting dark.  I'm not convinced that good instructors are also putting gurus.   We need to get on some putting apparatus soon as I just don't think he is aligning correctly.   Putter is aimed one way and his feet appear open.   @leezer99 I'll send you a PM.  I have no idea who CZ is.

 

Another issue mentioned above is the putter length.  That may be an issue as well as he has grown a lot, but we never extended his putter.

 

 

 

https://eyelinegolf.com/collections/putting-aids/products/eyeline-putting-mirror-1

 

 

 

 

[jj9000]

17 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

We take a similar approach as well. There is typically some time spent (~10 minutes) at the beginning of the putting practice to focus on mechanics (ex: Tiger's tee drill) and drills (putting around the circle, lag putting or seeing how many out of 25 from 3ft, 4ft, 5ft he can hit).  After that it tends to be games that he likes to make up. 

 

Here's a fun drill for you guys.

 

It's called Knock-Out

• Insert (8) tees (stations) in the grass around the same hole...each tee (4) feet out...and in an Octagon (2 four foot crosses)
• Each player starts the game at opposite tees...putting towards each other
• You have to stay at that putting station until you make the putt
• You make the putt...you go to the next station counter-clockwise (or clockwise...your choice beforehand)
• You miss the putt...you try it again from the same station
• A player only advances to the next station when a putt is made
• Once one player advances to the same station that the the other player is on...they must make the putt
• If they make the putt, they Knock-Out the other player
• If they miss the putt, the other player gets another opportunity to make the putt and advance a station

[BloctonGolf11]

Random thing but I highly recommend a WellPutt mat for any junior. It has an app they can have on their phone, gives them scoring feedback and history, and is just lightyears ahead of other ways to practice putting at home. My kid hated practicing putting and now actually enjoys it because it pushes him with understandable goals and numbers.

 

I echo what a lot of people have said. An occasional visit to a putting coach is not a terrible idea. 

[RmoorePE]

My daughter is about to enter into her first lessons/coaching and I had a conversation with the guy running the program. There are a few coaches working with 4 player groups, over 3 months. Short game will be part of every other session. I told him I thought daughter could score a lot better if she had some putting lessons and he ran down his philosophy:

 

1- Read the putt

2- hit the middle of the putter.

 

He told me that they could spend hours working on putting strokes, and alignment but his opinion is that for youth the time is better spent figuring out a way to make a confident read and using their athleticism to get the ball on the start line. He said if there are little technique things that make a big difference they will address those, otherwise it is all about the green reading process.

[cubuffs]

We have never used a short game / putting specific coach, just have always relied on the current swing instructor to manage this with a checkup when needed.  The one we are currently with was an assistant college coach, and has had some pretty high profile students (several college players and former State AM) trust him short game wise so never really questioned.  

 

Love the discussion around practice technique and timing being personal to the individual .  I can tell you that I have watched players struggle with that and force the issue - quantity over quality is not the answer.  The last 2 years, I watched one of the top ranked juniors (Rolex Rankings) spend hours putting with more contraptions than you could imagine.  He later admitted that this was a cause of him becoming overly mechanical and his putting actually becoming worse.

[MWhack]

2 hours ago, kelpie said:

Help them learn how to read greens and get good speed down.

I swear I stopped telling my daughter how to align the ball exactly 1y ago at the age of 7, she can read the green now much better than I do.
I am pretty bad tbh at golf, but still she actually can read the green now. Last year she asked me why i do not help her like other parents, now she knows and need to help me sometimes to read my putts.
Only think I do is asking her what do you think about the slope, she tells me what she thinks, I do not argue even I thought its wrong, she learned that way.
And now if I think she is wrong, most of the time I have read the green wrong 🙂

The feeling for the green is def. something they have to learn asap, if I see parents who align the ball im sorry for the kids, because long term it damages there game more than it helps.

[MWhack]

1 hour ago, jj9000 said:

 

Here's a fun drill for you guys.

 

It's called Knock-Out

• Insert (8) tees (stations) in the grass around the same hole...each tee (4) feet out...and in an Octagon (2 four foot crosses)
• Each player starts the game at opposite tees...putting towards each other
• You have to stay at that putting station until you make the putt
• You make the putt...you go to the next station counter-clockwise (or clockwise...your choice beforehand)
• You miss the putt...you try it again from the same station
• A player only advances to the next station when a putt is made
• Once one player advances to the same station that the the other player is on...they must make the putt
• If they make the putt, they Knock-Out the other player
• If they miss the putt, the other player gets another opportunity to make the putt and advance a station

my daughters fav. putting game 🙂 I dont like it that much cause I lose. 
maybe just add some rules for prep stuff, if you forget your practice go one back and that helps with the preshot routine a bit.
 

[hangontight]

Also, now that I am thinking about it...

 

- Changing the mindset to trying to make it.  Sounds obvious, but I think sometimes he is content with a 2 putt par so doesn't put much effort into reading the birdie putts. 

- He tends to Hit & Hope:  Trying to teach him that if you commit to a read you either make it or there are only two results :  1.) you made a bad read, or 2.) you hit a bad putt...and most anyone can tell which one it was.  From there I think they can improve rather quickly.

[MWhack]

33 minutes ago, hangontight said:

Also, now that I am thinking about it...

 

- Changing the mindset to trying to make it.  Sounds obvious, but I think sometimes he is content with a 2 putt par so doesn't put much effort into reading the birdie putts. 

- He tends to Hit & Hope:  Trying to teach him that if you commit to a read you either make it or there are only two results :  1.) you made a bad read, or 2.) you hit a bad putt...and most anyone can tell which one it was.  From there I think they can improve rather quickly.

try for hit and hope: 1.)next time you make a better read 2.) next time you hit a better putt

trust me the wording is more important than you might think.

Edited March 2, 2022 by MWhack

[Medson]

4 hours ago, wildcatden said:

Alignment is also always a big one for us. He tends to get his feet closed. His accuracy and distance control suffer when he gets into this mode. Like @hangontight my face is blue as the sky from mentioning this setup/alignment correction to the n-millionth time.

 

I usually drop one alignment stick along her feet, then another alignment stick along her putter's sight line to show her alignment is off. Of course, this is usually when the argument begins. 

[wildcatden]

4 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

I usually drop one alignment stick along her feet, then another alignment stick along her putter's sight line to show her alignment is off. Of course, this is usually when the argument begins. 

 

 

I don't get an argument. I get him suddenly putting well (making putts or lagging distances are great). However, he then forgets this successful endeavor later in the practice session.  Or he completely forgets it all the next day. I've got the blue face to prove it!! 😂

Edited March 2, 2022 by wildcatden

[RmoorePE]

47 minutes ago, MWhack said:

The feeling for the green is def. something they have to learn asap, if I see parents who align the ball im sorry for the kids, because long term it damages there game more than it helps.

We do a modified aim point quite a bit, it helps both me and her. Just take a short digital level and set it on the green or and try and guess the level reading with your feet. Just 5 minutes of this once a week goes a long way to feeling/reading greens. I chronically under read greens, and everyone knows if you miss on the low side you are missing by 4.25" plus however much you miss by. Figure out speed and how to miss pro side, and you are top 10% putter all day long.

 

Calibrating your toes is a valuable skill.

[MikekiM]

Have worked with a putting coach to learn Aimpoint.  Has helped my junior gain confidence with his putting more than anything. We've visited him a few times since the initial lesson and also helps just to reaffirm that he's reading greens correctly.  Confidence in him is huge in getting him to putt well.

[kcap]

My son has a putting and a separate short game coach.  I only got those last year.  So quite recent given that he has been playing golf for over 5 yrs.  We have seen them a couple of times, call it once every 3-5 months.  The coaches are well known and we travel to meet them but the impact on my sons short game and putting has been immense.

 

 

 

 

[Bizzle80]

I think I mentioned this elsewhere on forums but we have a swing, putting and short game/strategy coach. All really based on convenience for me tho. Started w a great swing coach…but he’s at a public range and can’t really take her on course. Then started working with our club pro on short game and getting situational work on the course…again more convenient for me since it’s at the club and I can work my game while she’s out w coach. Finally…started w a putting specialist, but he’s a good young guy that I’ll host at our club and then he will work with her after we play 18. 
 

seems like overkill…but really we see everyone maybe once a month and it’s mostly just convenient for me.  Each guy does a great job - daughter loves them all - and she can focus on one skill set at a time. 
 

if our club pro was great at all three I’d have her just work with him, but since each is good w different stuff we go w 3. 
 

it takes a village as they say…

[hangontight]

12 hours ago, kcap said:

My son has a putting and a separate short game coach.  I only got those last year.  So quite recent given that he has been playing golf for over 5 yrs.  We have seen them a couple of times, call it once every 3-5 months.  The coaches are well known and we travel to meet them but the impact on my sons short game and putting has been immense.

 

 

 

 

@kcapCurious to hear more.   What do these specialists focus on - more technical ?  expectation/intent?  THanks!

[kcap]

@hangontight.  I would say it started off being more technical to get a good foundation and now it is more about expectation and building skill.

eg. the putting coach initially focused on stroke (did the putter fit him, was his stroke working the right way etc).  Once we got passed that, it was more about, is he starting the ball on line, what is your aim tendency etc?.  After that, he wanted him to work on impact spot.  Every thing was measured on a Sam putt lab, the numbers are provided, issues are identified, how to get better is discussed, drills are outlined and the expectations are set.  ie. next time we meet, which is 3-4 months,  he should be in a better place.

 

The short game specialist is less numbers/data but all about skill and creativity. The initial lesson was all about teaching shots i.e technical.  The subsequent lessons have been centered around, fixing any issues that arose (there are always some issues) but spend most of the lesson on building skill and playing the game around the green.  
 

 

The other question, is why a specialist and not his full swing coach? Frankly, the specialists have been able to build a relationship with my son, he likes how they teach their art and is able to relate to them.  

 

Is it a overkill?  I dont think so.  I can three lessons with 1 coach or 1 each with 3 coaches. The cost is basically the same.