LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[dalehead]

7 hours ago, billyspan said:

Callaway assembles their clubs in Monterrey, Mexico.

Hey, don’t spoil a good story.

[CasualLie]

Since it's already fake golf with no cut, less holes and guaranteed money, might as well allow carts and rangefinders.  Maybe that will get TW to show.  And Langer can keep winning.

 

Here's two questions for the first tourney outside London.

 

1.  Will anyone from Top 20 OWGR show up?  And if not,

2.  Highest ranked player to show up?

 

I'm guessing 3 from top 30.

 

 

[BenSeattle]

4 hours ago, Obee said:

 

I really can't stand Greg Norman. That is all.

 

You know what... me neither.  This pompous, self-important, angry and desperate tool has been waiting for an opportunity to stick it to the PGA Tour and, by jumping into bed with an oil-rich, corrupt, murderous regime, he finally has his chance.  Norman is nothing more than a willing mouthpiece for a crime family, an easily-manipulated marionette whose complete lack of integrity sees him happily as the front man for a gang oppressors who just have to be laughing at how easily the once-respected Aussie star can be manipulated.  "In the best interest of golf?"  "Grow the game?"  Nope.  Quite simply: FAKE NEWS.

[BenSeattle]

2 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

If they really are paying this much money, with no cuts, plus team money, for doing 75% of the work (54 holes vs 72)... a LOT of players will be signing up.

 

Ironically I think Phil, jerk though he is, may get his wish in that this tour will force the PGA Tour to pay more money to keep its players.

 

I heard Pat Perez on Colt Knost's podcast, and they were talking about how players can lose money playing on tour if they don't make cuts.  These are the top ranked players in the world.  As Perez said, even the 12th guy on an NBA bench who never takes his sweats off makes millions guaranteed.  At the very least I am expecting the Tour to institute some guaranteed payout to all players who compete in a tournament, even when they miss a cut.

 

To the naked eye, yes... it seems that -- when compared to other sports -- professional golf is a brutally cruel sport.  After all, you have to play well just to be able to enter a tournament and even when once there, you have to beat two-thirds of the field simply to make the weekend and be eligible for a check.  BUT isn't that much of the appeal?  You point to Pat Perez noting that the 12th man on an NBA team still gets paid.... but is that right?  Get paid for DOING NOTHING?  Get paid for DOGGING IT?  I liken Pro Golf to the commission-only sales professional who makes NOTHING unless he closes a deal.  Who do think works harder.... the guy on commission or the freeloader taking orders at a call-in center? 

[BenSeattle]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

And wait a minute. The Saudis can throw money at players at bring down our national golf tour. But the tour can’t do the same thing to keep their own players?!

 

The Saudi family (15,000 strong) is worth approximately $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  In very real terms, you can label that Unlimited Funds.  On the other hand, the PGA Tour depends on sponsors; companies willing to put up millions per week in the hope that the association pays off down the road.  Anyone expecting to see the American tour compete dollar-wise with Arabs printing oil money is living in a very unrealistic world.  The PGA Tour is now dependent on players respecting history ("I want to win where Hogan used to win.") and integrity..... something conveniently missing in the tool that is Greg Norman, the figurehead for the LIV Golf effort.  Perhaps Avis (always number 2) will think again when someone demonstrates to him the efficiency of a bone saw.

[PorkChopExpress]

Think there’s gonna be more big names people think. 
 

Rors and Spieth probably can’t play cause of their contracts. 

Would not be surprised if Nike UA have agreements with the tour 

[tgws]

Shark of course has been going after the Tour since the late 80s (Beman/but Finchem especially)

 

Like Castro ... every 5 yrs the 'revolution is coming'... course it never came

 

Norman did create the Presidents Cup, maybe very slight assist to N. Price, but backhanded compliment, this event could easily go away without anyone knowing

 

All said, can't recall a more charismatic player to walk rhe fairways than Greg Norman, maybe Ballesteros 

 

[tacklingdummy]

The most interesting to me is the individual and team categories. Not sure that will equate into better viewer ratings or not, however, if you were a player, that adds another wrinkle of motivation and pressure have a side bet team event.  Especially for later group players that may not even be in contention for the individual title, but their results are dependent on winning the team event. 

 

Also, there is big time money involved because the purses are not the only money. There is still the guaranteed money.

[aenemated]

So if dudes are gonna jump on this ticky-tack nonsense, why doesn't anyone have the stones to come out and just say they're in? Why this ridiculous bozo circus of secrecy? If they're so sure about the wild riches and that's all that matters - why not put on their big boy pants and own it? 

 

Or are they scared of being seen as a complete tool like Old Man Norman? 

[iBanesto]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

So if dudes are gonna jump on this ticky-tack nonsense, why doesn't anyone have the stones to come out and just say they're in? Why this ridiculous bozo circus of secrecy? If they're so sure about the wild riches and that's all that matters - why not put on their big boy pants and own it? 

 

Or are they scared of being seen as a complete tool like Old Man Norman? 

 

[EagleAteBirdie]

Norman made a concerted effort to attract players before any firm announcement and that tactic failed miserably.  This latest announcement is a change of strategy and now that an actual offer is on the table some notable players will take notice.

 

Loopers be like "When we going boss?"

[hunterdog]

16 hours ago, djmohab2 said:

 

Bahahaha. The hypocrisy in this statement is beyond baffling. Callaway puts FIGJAM's contract on pause while their products are manufactured and assembled by Chinese slave labor. Rory gets up there like an angry boomer parent trying to prevent other generations from securing their bag because he got his, with his Nike money off the backs of Chinese slave labor. Nobody's hands are clean in this.

As far as I’m aware, there were no Chinese nationals that flew planes into buildings on 9/11.  So that’s a difference.

[iBanesto]

 

Greg Norman can talk...

Edited March 17, 2022 by iBanesto

[Ferguson]

8 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Yes, but this particular treasure is simply priceless and therefore off limits:

 

 

 

 

 

 

He sold this one to Wayne Player for an undisclosed amount. 

[hunterdog]

While I generally don’t like the idea of the SGL because, well, it’s the Saudis.  I am interested in the logistics. In no particular order:

A.  Players. I think that a player who holds a PGAT card must request an exemption at least 45 days before an unsanctioned event.  If exemptions are requested and not granted, and still plays in the Saudi event, will that Tour card holder be suspended from the Tour?

 

B. Television and broadcast. NBC, ESPN, and CBS have committed to broadcasting the PGAT, at least through 2019.Televised golf, as it is, a sport with relatively limited viewership.  Are the Saudi events going to broadcast?  I assume no sponsors will be needed but a broadcaster, somehow, has got to make some money.  I don’t see Callaway, Titleist, or Cadillac advertising during a Saudi event.

 

C. Assuming that the Saudis want live fans at the events. What’s the logistics for marshals, food vendors, bathrooms, etc.  I have always thought the PGAT has a sweet deal with local charities supplying free laborers.  Is that going to be the Saudis’ model as well?

 

D. Player accommodations.  PGAT card holders have a pretty good thing g Ling at events. Free cars, food, and, importantly, the equipment company tour vans.  How is that going to work?  Maybe the players can go to a local Club Champion?
 

E. Player sponsors.  How are sponsors going to react.  Will the companies want their endorsers also endorsing the “scary mo…f…” who own the Saudi Tour?

[Holy Moses]

54 holes, no cut, team event component. Going to be hard to get OWGR points for that. At this point, the SGL is probably giving up on trying to get OWGR points. They are hoping that the PGA Tour’s ban doesn’t hold up in court and players can play both Tours.

[Holy Moses]

23 minutes ago, hunterdog said:

While I generally don’t like the idea of the SGL because, well, it’s the Saudis.  I am interested in the logistics. In no particular order:

A.  Players. I think that a player who holds a PGAT card must request an exemption at least 45 days before an unsanctioned event.  If exemptions are requested and not granted, and still plays in the Saudi event, will that Tour card holder be suspended from the Tour?

 

B. Television and broadcast. NBC, ESPN, and CBS have committed to broadcasting the PGAT, at least through 2019.Televised golf, as it is, a sport with relatively limited viewership.  Are the Saudi events going to broadcast?  I assume no sponsors will be needed but a broadcaster, somehow, has got to make some money.  I don’t see Callaway, Titleist, or Cadillac advertising during a Saudi event.

 

C. Assuming that the Saudis want live fans at the events. What’s the logistics for marshals, food vendors, bathrooms, etc.  I have always thought the PGAT has a sweet deal with local charities supplying free laborers.  Is that going to be the Saudis’ model as well?

 

D. Player accommodations.  PGAT card holders have a pretty good thing g Ling at events. Free cars, food, and, importantly, the equipment company tour vans.  How is that going to work?  Maybe the players can go to a local Club Champion?
 

E. Player sponsors.  How are sponsors going to react.  Will the companies want their endorsers also endorsing the “scary mo…f…” who own the Saudi Tour?

A. Yes, they will be banned. The SGL will sue and we’ll see if they can get a temporary injunction while it’s played out in court.

B. Fox could be a TV partner, but not this year. My guess is that it will be streaming only. I don’t see many big names playing in this league year one and without big names, Fox isn’t going to touch it.

C. The SGL will probably be a stripped down league this year as far as logistics go. They’re going to have to pay everyone. 
D. No Tour vans, but I’m sure the accommodations for players will be nice.

E. It will be interesting to see if sponsors pull out. RBC made DJ take off their logo in Saudi Arabia. Phil’s sponsors ditched him. Why would the sponsors for the other players leaving for the SGL not also ditch them? They just might.

 

Will Phil commit to this league? Think they’ll kiss and make up?

[One Putter]

6 hours ago, BenSeattle said:

 

The Saudi family (15,000 strong) is worth approximately $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  In very real terms, you can label that Unlimited Funds.  On the other hand, the PGA Tour depends on sponsors; companies willing to put up millions per week in the hope that the association pays off down the road.  Anyone expecting to see the American tour compete dollar-wise with Arabs printing oil money is living in a very unrealistic world.  The PGA Tour is now dependent on players respecting history ("I want to win where Hogan used to win.") and integrity..... something conveniently missing in the tool that is Greg Norman, the figurehead for the LIV Golf effort.  Perhaps Avis (always number 2) will think again when someone demonstrates to him the efficiency of a bone saw.

I won't pay attention at all to whatever the saudi BS tour is called. Even for a golfer, i don't honestly watch a ton of golf on TV. Really just the big events. It's really, really stupid to pay players more money than the events are generating. The only reason they get paid so much as it is is because of Tiger.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Message for Greg Norman... 

 

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, One Putter said:

I won't pay attention at all to whatever the saudi BS tour is called

he said here, in the thread about the saudi BS tour. 

[ChipStrokes]

Just now, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Message for Greg Norman... 

 

don’t confuse a slow start with a failure. there’s too much money behind this to just fizzle out. 

 

the only way the SGL fails is if the PGA Tour comes out of pocket bigtime, and i don’t see that happening

[BNGL]

I will say this about it, I’m genuinely curious how it’ll work and I’ll tune in to whatever network or streaming service that covers it. I’m a golf nut and love watching golf plain and simple. 

[One Putter]

7 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

he said here, in the thread about the saudi BS tour. 

Well the PGA Tour events on this site get about 5 pages of action on average. The majors and players are always the bigger threads. Let's see how big and booming the threads get for these awesome events.

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, One Putter said:

Well the PGA Tour events on this site get about 5 pages of action on average. The majors and players are always the bigger threads. Let's see how big and booming the threads get for these awesome events.

there are a cumulative 104 pages of discussion about the SGL on this site and no one has put a tee in the ground yet 

[Avidswampthing66]

19 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

Guys who are chasing records and history will most likely stay away, this number is small. JT, Rory, Spieth, etc want to pass some folks in the history books. But a lot of players are playing professional golf for the reason that makes them a professional- money. I do not see why a Paul Casey type wouldn’t go - he’s not a HoF’er, will not win a major, will likely not win more than maybe 1 more tour event. Why wouldn’t he go? Brendan Steele? Noren?  Scott Stallings? Chesson Hadley?  I don’t think they are going to get more than maybe 2 from the top 25. Past that?  It’s wide open I think. 

Great I get to see Paul Caeey not win over there too…

 

[iBanesto]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

don’t confuse a slow start with a failure. there’s too much money behind this to just fizzle out. 

 

the only way the SGL fails is if the PGA Tour comes out of pocket bigtime, and i don’t see that happening

 

Yeah it is not going away any time soon.

 

LIV has invested $300 million into the Asian Tour, so that will keep them going for a little bit at least.

[bscinstnct]

7 hours ago, BenSeattle said:

 

The Saudi family (15,000 strong) is worth approximately $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  In very real terms, you can label that Unlimited Funds.  On the other hand, the PGA Tour depends on sponsors; companies willing to put up millions per week in the hope that the association pays off down the road.  Anyone expecting to see the American tour compete dollar-wise with Arabs printing oil money is living in a very unrealistic world.  The PGA Tour is now dependent on players respecting history ("I want to win where Hogan used to win.") and integrity..... something conveniently missing in the tool that is Greg Norman, the figurehead for the LIV Golf effort.  Perhaps Avis (always number 2) will think again when someone demonstrates to him the efficiency of a bone saw.

 

The LIV has already conceded on any requirements to play on their “tour”

 

They couldn’t sign anyone big to commit to that and made these individual events. Players can play…one.

 

The pga tour doesn’t need to compete “dollar-wise”, I said exactly that in my next post. 
 

But, they need to accelerate earnings for top performers. The same way a business accelerates incentive comp for someone who outperforms.

 

Top 5 on the money list made 6.5-7.7MM last year. 
 

You apply a 2x accelerator to that. That costs 35MM. 
 

Money leaders now make 15-20 MM

 

Then apply a 1.5x accelerator to the rest of the top 20. That costs another 37MM

 

So now #15 on the list makes close to 8MM. 
 

Then more bonuses. Like 50MM. So the top players can make 20MM+ a year

 

All this costs the tour 125MM a year. Their projected 2022 revenue is 1.5Billion. 
 

To keep their golden geese, they can swing it. 
 

 

 

 

[4thand11]

3 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

Greg Norman can talk...

 

This is a really good podcast, probably my favorite golf-related podcast out there.  Their recent episode with Pat Perez talking about Phil and the SGL was gold.

[manku]

14 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

i’m guessing you don’t watch the NBA either 

Why the NBA?

 

MLB and NHL are leagues that cancelled games over money.  

[mizuno player]

12 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Did anyone really think Phil's big mouth was going to tank this league?  The money is off the charts.  As long as people watch, and more importantly people with a lot of money and business aspirations, it's going to happen.  The golf is secondary at best.

Sadly I have to raise my hand... 😲... I thought it was dead in the water.