LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[Duct Tape]

• LIV already has a “short list” of potential announcers, including three “interesting names.”

https://frontofficesports.com/saudi-backed-golf-league-seeks-500m-rights-deal/  
 

 

Jim Nantz.   Please. 

[macnewma]

I spoke to a couple of well connected friends (agents and tour reps) and got some more stuff on Phil.

 

So Phil isn't banned. Technically. The Tour has basically communicated to Phil's team that if Phil attempts to enter a tour event then his entrance application will be rejected. This is currently indefinite with no specific method or steps for Phil to earn his way back on. They will likely hold this over his head until he comes out with a real apology and outright rejects the SGL.

 

The issue, not completely confirmed, is that Phil, unlike the other 3, has already entered into a contract with LIV. I don't have any information on the details of this contract, but DJ, Bryson and Koepka had signed nothing. They may have been close, but it was just heavy flirting.

 

Concerning Augusta, he will not being playing there this year. The Masters is a bit opaque about their exemptions and their ability to revoke entrance (Phil obviously qualifies with his win at Kiawah last year). Similar to the PGA Tour, Augusta has basically told Phil's team he isn't welcome so don't try to show up.

Phil's issues are also more extensive than just SGL/LIV the Shipnuck quotes etc. He isn't "broke" but he isn't in great shape. His marriage is on the rocks as Amy caught him again. His gambling and spending have eaten into their finances so badly that a divorce would destroy him. Hence the likely $25-100 million up front from the Saudis with an equity stake going forward.

Phil also burnt a couple of his major sponsors prior to the Shipnuck quotes. I won't go into details but his behavior was unacceptable and said sponsors were looking for a way out. His behavior has been rather erratic for the past year or so and my contacts couldn't explain it. Almost as though he has a drug or drinking problem but they didn't think it was either. Anyway, this behavior is what fractured the sponsor relationships first.

 

----------------------

 

So it all comes down to Phil being stuck. Phil might actually be on the hook to play in these events which means it would be Phil vs a bunch of Asian Tour nobodies. DJ, Bryson and Koepka were the biggest names under 50 with major exemptions for the next 4-5 years. The idea was that they could have those 4 big names and a few older guys like Westwood and Poulter for the first year. The money would be huge, they would get a worldwide streaming deal and then guys like Rahm, Rory, Morikawa, JT and Spieth would jump ship (the risk for the younger guys is much bigger). These original 4 would stand to make billions on the equity and potentially ~$100 million cash the first year up front.

 

It actually had the potential for success even if it was a long shot. It needed the 4 big name major winners for year 1 so they could get a streaming deal. The streaming deal and high level competition would be needed for endorsement viability. Then the young guys would jump for year 2. The PGA Tour would have to capitulate and let players play in the SGL or lose the top young guys entirely and become a 2nd tier league.

 

When Rahm, Rory and Morikawa said they would never leave, combined with seeing Phil lose sponsors, the younger 3 guys got scared. The SGL is 100 pct stillborn at this point. They might still hold events to save face and they may already have the money spent and contracts in place for these events. But without the 4 big names it is dead.

 

----------------------

 

At this point, Phil is in a purgatory where even Callaway isn't going to pay him unless he starts playing PGA Tour events again (yes, there are exit clauses that can be enabled if a player doesn't play enough on Tour or causes harm to the sponsor...the flip side is that if his likeness is used in ongoing marketing they have to pay him). The pause is real in that Callaway isn't interested in giving up on Phil yet, but they aren't paying him.

 

So Phil needs to find a way out of his contract with the SGL. The ideal situation for Phil would be for the SGL to be in breach by going defunct before the first tournament Phil is obligated to play in. Phil might also be able to find a way for the SGL to release him from his contract (either a clause or an agreed release).

Now if Phil can't get out of his contract prior to his first tournament obligation with the SGL, we will likely never see Phil play on the PGA Tour or Champions Tour again. He might still be able to play in the 4 majors while he has exemptions (the PGA Championship is separate from the Tour).

 

Anyway, that is why Phil's apology letter was written the way it was. He is 100% in with the Saudis for the time being.

[tacklingdummy]

2 hours ago, CaseyC said:

 

Legally allowed, but enough to earn the $ to keep your card?

 

Golf is not easy to say the least especially with the depth of talent on the PGA tour now, but I don't think the top players are too worried about not making the top 125 if only playing 15 events. But even if they were, I think they would just add a few more events. Many guys on the Champions Tour are playing 30+ events. Langer played 39 events last year. That is an unbelievable amount of golf. Not sure how they do it. 

[macnewma]

12 hours ago, ashortgame said:

I was under the assumption that the players will consist of 30 players from the Asian Tour and so that would mean SGL need 18 others to make up the 48.

FWIW here is my pick of who's joining: (edit as you please)

Justin Rose

Adam Scott

Lee Westwood 

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

Webb Simpson

Charl Schwartzel

Jason Kokrak

Sangmoon Bae

Martin Kaymer

Danny Willett

Graeme McDowell

Patrick Reed

Keegan Bradley

Ryan Fox

David Lipsky

Francesco Molinari

Andrew Johnson

 

From a quick glance, it looks like Reed is the top player at 28 and Webb is the 2nd ranked player at 35...and he won't be top 50 in about 6 weeks when he loses his points from the WM and RBC wins. A good chunk of those players aren't top 100. Some aren't top 200 and Bae isn't top 1000.

 

Of that list I think only Woodland would have at least 2 years of exemptions to all 4 majors.

 

That would have been a decent lineup...if it also had Phil, DJ, Bryson and Koepka. Still a longshot to attract the big guys under 30 and a real media deal, but as it is now, the league died when DJ and Bryson bailed.

[CasualLie]

3 hours ago, CaseyC said:

 

Legally allowed, but enough to earn the $ to keep your card?

 

That will be the new wrinkle...keeping your card will be based on your best 15 events 😉

 

If you are a so called top player, which is what LIV wants and paying big money for, if you cannot keep your card with enough earnings from 15 events, then you are not as good as people think you are and you do not deserve a card.  Maybe that is the new wrinkle...PGA Tour ups the event purses for the lesser events making it harder to keep your card if you only play 15 events.  So they allow players to go to LIV, but the risk is you may not earn enough to stay on the PGA Tour.

 

Per the discussion above, I really do not think there is a contractual obligation iron clad that says a PGA Tour member cannot join another tour.  Whatever is in there is up for interpretation / court challenge.  Well...anything is up for court challenge these days.  How come we do not have hard evidence.  We do know there is a rule of 15 minimum events, we know which events count, which do not, and we know a new stop has to be in your calendar every four years, we know the penalty for playing in less than 15, etc... but we do not know the actual membership terms when it comes to outside events?

 

You can't just lump it under some kind of morals clause, or non-compete, or the like; those won't fly in this example.  Or at least, won't prevent court challenges.  Both sides have plenty of high priced shills whispering in their ears they are right.

 

[CaseyC]

1 hour ago, macnewma said:

 

 

So Phil needs to find a way out of his contract with the SGL. The ideal situation for Phil would be for the SGL to be in breach by going defunct before the first tournament Phil is obligated to play in. Phil might also be able to find a way for the SGL to release him from his contract (either a clause or an agreed release).
 

The PGA can offer him an out.  Phil checks into rehab, offers a much stronger apology and the PGA pays the legal fees against the SGL and then rank him high in the PIP for the next couple of years.

 

Play the "Players should be able to play anywhere they want" card against Norman and the SGL.   

[CaseyC]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

but I don't think the top players are too worried about not making the top 125 if only playing 15 events. 

The top players have already said they aren't going to the SGL.    The question is can players from 50-100 keep their cards.

Edited March 18, 2022 by CaseyC

[One Putter]

16 hours ago, BenSeattle said:

 

As I stated earlier, the Saudi family, even with 15,000 members, is worth some $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  These guys buy 300 million-dollar yachts like you and I buy golf balls.  There is no genuine "business model" to this venture; you don't need to be profitable -- EVER -- when you have a bottomless supply of oil money.  This league is intended for two purposes only: to further the Saudis sportswashing efforts that will draw attention away from their human rights abuses and to allow puppet frontman Greg Norman to gain a measure of revenge on the PGA Tour.  That's it, nothing more.

Yeah, but people who have billions of dollars dont acquire/maintain that wealth by flushing hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet on fruitless endeavors.

Edited March 18, 2022 by One Putter

[jmck]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Greg Norman, Saudi Arabia-backed LIV Golf aiming for $500 million for global media rights, according to a report
 

Streaming platforms, particularly the Netflixes, the Amazons, the Apples, are truly global. That’s one path we could pursue,” said Sean Bratches, a former ESPN executive and LIV Golf’s chief commercial officer.
 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/03/17/greg-norman-liv-golf-saudi-league-global-media-rights-report/

They're "talking with" and "pursing" getting this thing on air?  And it's three months away?

 

That's a fool's errand.  It's like how they haven't announced any players yet.  If they're putting a peg in the ground in June of 2022 they need to be "announcing" their media partners, like, yesterday.  Not "pursing" and "talking with" them today.  Good grief.  Fox had two-plus YEARS to get ready to cover a US Open and still stunk it up.

[Holy Moses]

Interesting info macnewma. Does the SGL want Phil still?

 

You did say that Phil has an exemption to the Masters from being a PGA Champion. He has an exemption from being a 3-time Masters champion. 
 

Brooks never seemed close to joining the SGL, but you put him on the same interest level as DJ and Bryson.

 

You think the original four players are going to make “billions” in equity? Whatever.

 

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Holy Moses

[aenemated]

 

Quote

LIV already has a “short list” of potential announcers, including three “interesting names.”

 

And I have a "short list" of potential next-ms.-aenemateds, including three "interesting names" like Scarlett Johansson, Alexandra Daddario and the girl from the AT&T commercials. 

 

These people are clowns.

 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, jmck said:

They're "talking with" and "pursing" getting this thing on air?  And it's three months away?

 

That's a fool's errand.  It's like how they haven't announced any players yet.  If they're putting a peg in the ground in June of 2022 they need to be "announcing" their media partners, like, yesterday.  Not "pursing" and "talking with" them today.  Good grief.  Fox had two-plus YEARS to get ready to cover a US Open and still stunk it up.

This is what happens when you let Greg Norman run your league

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, macnewma said:

I spoke to a couple of well connected friends (agents and tour reps) and got some more stuff on Phil.

 

So Phil isn't banned. Technically. The Tour has basically communicated to Phil's team that if Phil attempts to enter a tour event then his entrance application will be rejected. This is currently indefinite with no specific method or steps for Phil to earn his way back on. They will likely hold this over his head until he comes out with a real apology and outright rejects the SGL.

 

The issue, not completely confirmed, is that Phil, unlike the other 3, has already entered into a contract with LIV. I don't have any information on the details of this contract, but DJ, Bryson and Koepka had signed nothing. They may have been close, but it was just heavy flirting.

 

Concerning Augusta, he will not being playing there this year. The Masters is a bit opaque about their exemptions and their ability to revoke entrance (Phil obviously qualifies with his win at Kiawah last year). Similar to the PGA Tour, Augusta has basically told Phil's team he isn't welcome so don't try to show up.

Phil's issues are also more extensive than just SGL/LIV the Shipnuck quotes etc. He isn't "broke" but he isn't in great shape. His marriage is on the rocks as Amy caught him again. His gambling and spending have eaten into their finances so badly that a divorce would destroy him. Hence the likely $25-100 million up front from the Saudis with an equity stake going forward.

Phil also burnt a couple of his major sponsors prior to the Shipnuck quotes. I won't go into details but his behavior was unacceptable and said sponsors were looking for a way out. His behavior has been rather erratic for the past year or so and my contacts couldn't explain it. Almost as though he has a drug or drinking problem but they didn't think it was either. Anyway, this behavior is what fractured the sponsor relationships first.

 

----------------------

 

So it all comes down to Phil being stuck. Phil might actually be on the hook to play in these events which means it would be Phil vs a bunch of Asian Tour nobodies. DJ, Bryson and Koepka were the biggest names under 50 with major exemptions for the next 4-5 years. The idea was that they could have those 4 big names and a few older guys like Westwood and Poulter for the first year. The money would be huge, they would get a worldwide streaming deal and then guys like Rahm, Rory, Morikawa, JT and Spieth would jump ship (the risk for the younger guys is much bigger). These original 4 would stand to make billions on the equity and potentially ~$100 million cash the first year up front.

 

It actually had the potential for success even if it was a long shot. It needed the 4 big name major winners for year 1 so they could get a streaming deal. The streaming deal and high level competition would be needed for endorsement viability. Then the young guys would jump for year 2. The PGA Tour would have to capitulate and let players play in the SGL or lose the top young guys entirely and become a 2nd tier league.

 

When Rahm, Rory and Morikawa said they would never leave, combined with seeing Phil lose sponsors, the younger 3 guys got scared. The SGL is 100 pct stillborn at this point. They might still hold events to save face and they may already have the money spent and contracts in place for these events. But without the 4 big names it is dead.

 

----------------------

 

At this point, Phil is in a purgatory where even Callaway isn't going to pay him unless he starts playing PGA Tour events again (yes, there are exit clauses that can be enabled if a player doesn't play enough on Tour or causes harm to the sponsor...the flip side is that if his likeness is used in ongoing marketing they have to pay him). The pause is real in that Callaway isn't interested in giving up on Phil yet, but they aren't paying him.

 

So Phil needs to find a way out of his contract with the SGL. The ideal situation for Phil would be for the SGL to be in breach by going defunct before the first tournament Phil is obligated to play in. Phil might also be able to find a way for the SGL to release him from his contract (either a clause or an agreed release).

Now if Phil can't get out of his contract prior to his first tournament obligation with the SGL, we will likely never see Phil play on the PGA Tour or Champions Tour again. He might still be able to play in the 4 majors while he has exemptions (the PGA Championship is separate from the Tour).

 

Anyway, that is why Phil's apology letter was written the way it was. He is 100% in with the Saudis for the time being.

 

 

Holy! Thanks mac!

 

You droppin some serious intel there ; )

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, One Putter said:

Yeah, but people who have billions of dollars dont acquire/maintain that wealth by flushing hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet on fruitless endeavors.

When you need to sportwash your human rights atrocities then spending billions on some pawns is a cheap investment. Billions is nothing when money flows from a literal spigot. 

[CasualLie]

2 hours ago, CaseyC said:

The top players have already said they aren't going to the SGL.    The question is can players from 50-100 keep their cards.

 

They only said that with double talk.  At best/worse, they said the wouldn't join the league, they want to play against the best, and they support the PGA Tour.  None of that precludes them from playing in a few super events for $5M.

 

 

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

And I have a "short list" of potential next-ms.-aenemateds, including three "interesting names" like Scarlett Johansson, Alexandra Daddario and the girl from the AT&T commercials. 

GET OUT OF MY BRAIN

[CCTxGolf]

3 hours ago, One Putter said:

Yeah, but people who have billions of dollars dont acquire/maintain that wealth by flushing hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet on fruitless endeavors.

I don’t believe it’s a fruitless endeavor to them. Profit the way you or I think of it is not their goal.

 

think of this more simply as a laundering operation. 

[ivygynonc]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:23 PM, Holy Moses said:

If it’s just a money thing, the PGA Tour can’t compete. They don’t have the resources to match the Saudis anymore. A ban is their last good defense. 

Banning is illegal.  It will the quickest antitrust ruling in US history.  Norman knows this and surely does the PGA tour.  If Norman could just get one relatively famous guy to sign on that has full multi year privileges on the PGAT, I'd be the house a 'ban' would not be imposed.  If it was, it would fail immediately and then the rest of the players would see that they truly have free rein to work as a 1099 in any capacity they wish to make money in their trade.  You simply cannot prevent someone from earning a wage in their trade.  Period.  

[ivygynonc]

4 hours ago, macnewma said:

I spoke to a couple of well connected friends (agents and tour reps) and got some more stuff on Phil.

 

So Phil isn't banned. Technically. The Tour has basically communicated to Phil's team that if Phil attempts to enter a tour event then his entrance application will be rejected. This is currently indefinite with no specific method or steps for Phil to earn his way back on. They will likely hold this over his head until he comes out with a real apology and outright rejects the SGL.

 

The issue, not completely confirmed, is that Phil, unlike the other 3, has already entered into a contract with LIV. I don't have any information on the details of this contract, but DJ, Bryson and Koepka had signed nothing. They may have been close, but it was just heavy flirting.

 

Concerning Augusta, he will not being playing there this year. The Masters is a bit opaque about their exemptions and their ability to revoke entrance (Phil obviously qualifies with his win at Kiawah last year). Similar to the PGA Tour, Augusta has basically told Phil's team he isn't welcome so don't try to show up.

Phil's issues are also more extensive than just SGL/LIV the Shipnuck quotes etc. He isn't "broke" but he isn't in great shape. His marriage is on the rocks as Amy caught him again. His gambling and spending have eaten into their finances so badly that a divorce would destroy him. Hence the likely $25-100 million up front from the Saudis with an equity stake going forward.

Phil also burnt a couple of his major sponsors prior to the Shipnuck quotes. I won't go into details but his behavior was unacceptable and said sponsors were looking for a way out. His behavior has been rather erratic for the past year or so and my contacts couldn't explain it. Almost as though he has a drug or drinking problem but they didn't think it was either. Anyway, this behavior is what fractured the sponsor relationships first.

 

----------------------

 

So it all comes down to Phil being stuck. Phil might actually be on the hook to play in these events which means it would be Phil vs a bunch of Asian Tour nobodies. DJ, Bryson and Koepka were the biggest names under 50 with major exemptions for the next 4-5 years. The idea was that they could have those 4 big names and a few older guys like Westwood and Poulter for the first year. The money would be huge, they would get a worldwide streaming deal and then guys like Rahm, Rory, Morikawa, JT and Spieth would jump ship (the risk for the younger guys is much bigger). These original 4 would stand to make billions on the equity and potentially ~$100 million cash the first year up front.

 

It actually had the potential for success even if it was a long shot. It needed the 4 big name major winners for year 1 so they could get a streaming deal. The streaming deal and high level competition would be needed for endorsement viability. Then the young guys would jump for year 2. The PGA Tour would have to capitulate and let players play in the SGL or lose the top young guys entirely and become a 2nd tier league.

 

When Rahm, Rory and Morikawa said they would never leave, combined with seeing Phil lose sponsors, the younger 3 guys got scared. The SGL is 100 pct stillborn at this point. They might still hold events to save face and they may already have the money spent and contracts in place for these events. But without the 4 big names it is dead.

 

----------------------

 

At this point, Phil is in a purgatory where even Callaway isn't going to pay him unless he starts playing PGA Tour events again (yes, there are exit clauses that can be enabled if a player doesn't play enough on Tour or causes harm to the sponsor...the flip side is that if his likeness is used in ongoing marketing they have to pay him). The pause is real in that Callaway isn't interested in giving up on Phil yet, but they aren't paying him.

 

So Phil needs to find a way out of his contract with the SGL. The ideal situation for Phil would be for the SGL to be in breach by going defunct before the first tournament Phil is obligated to play in. Phil might also be able to find a way for the SGL to release him from his contract (either a clause or an agreed release).

Now if Phil can't get out of his contract prior to his first tournament obligation with the SGL, we will likely never see Phil play on the PGA Tour or Champions Tour again. He might still be able to play in the 4 majors while he has exemptions (the PGA Championship is separate from the Tour).

 

Anyway, that is why Phil's apology letter was written the way it was. He is 100% in with the Saudis for the time being.

If this is true, Phil should hire Kapernick's lawyers.   A Collusion "ban" is a bad idea....

 

Rejecting his application to play in an event that he is exempt for based on either past win (masters and Open) or recent PGA win, is collusion.   

[tacklingdummy]

3 hours ago, CaseyC said:

The top players have already said they aren't going to the SGL.    The question is can players from 50-100 keep their cards.

 

 

Not from what Greg Norman said in the Subpar podcast. He said he has many top players interested. But does it really matter? The guys 50 to 100 might even jump ship if it means they can make more money playing 8 (54-hole) events than the top 5 players in the world playing 20-25 (72-hole) events. The top Senior Champions Tour guys are making more money than the top 40-200 ranked PGA tour players. 

 

 

[straightshot7]

4 hours ago, macnewma said:

I spoke to a couple of well connected friends (agents and tour reps) and got some more stuff on Phil.

 

So Phil isn't banned. Technically. The Tour has basically communicated to Phil's team that if Phil attempts to enter a tour event then his entrance application will be rejected. This is currently indefinite with no specific method or steps for Phil to earn his way back on. They will likely hold this over his head until he comes out with a real apology and outright rejects the SGL.

 

The issue, not completely confirmed, is that Phil, unlike the other 3, has already entered into a contract with LIV. I don't have any information on the details of this contract, but DJ, Bryson and Koepka had signed nothing. They may have been close, but it was just heavy flirting.

 

Concerning Augusta, he will not being playing there this year. The Masters is a bit opaque about their exemptions and their ability to revoke entrance (Phil obviously qualifies with his win at Kiawah last year). Similar to the PGA Tour, Augusta has basically told Phil's team he isn't welcome so don't try to show up.

Phil's issues are also more extensive than just SGL/LIV the Shipnuck quotes etc. He isn't "broke" but he isn't in great shape. His marriage is on the rocks as Amy caught him again. His gambling and spending have eaten into their finances so badly that a divorce would destroy him. Hence the likely $25-100 million up front from the Saudis with an equity stake going forward.

Phil also burnt a couple of his major sponsors prior to the Shipnuck quotes. I won't go into details but his behavior was unacceptable and said sponsors were looking for a way out. His behavior has been rather erratic for the past year or so and my contacts couldn't explain it. Almost as though he has a drug or drinking problem but they didn't think it was either. Anyway, this behavior is what fractured the sponsor relationships first.

 

----------------------

 

So it all comes down to Phil being stuck. Phil might actually be on the hook to play in these events which means it would be Phil vs a bunch of Asian Tour nobodies. DJ, Bryson and Koepka were the biggest names under 50 with major exemptions for the next 4-5 years. The idea was that they could have those 4 big names and a few older guys like Westwood and Poulter for the first year. The money would be huge, they would get a worldwide streaming deal and then guys like Rahm, Rory, Morikawa, JT and Spieth would jump ship (the risk for the younger guys is much bigger). These original 4 would stand to make billions on the equity and potentially ~$100 million cash the first year up front.

 

It actually had the potential for success even if it was a long shot. It needed the 4 big name major winners for year 1 so they could get a streaming deal. The streaming deal and high level competition would be needed for endorsement viability. Then the young guys would jump for year 2. The PGA Tour would have to capitulate and let players play in the SGL or lose the top young guys entirely and become a 2nd tier league.

 

When Rahm, Rory and Morikawa said they would never leave, combined with seeing Phil lose sponsors, the younger 3 guys got scared. The SGL is 100 pct stillborn at this point. They might still hold events to save face and they may already have the money spent and contracts in place for these events. But without the 4 big names it is dead.

 

----------------------

 

At this point, Phil is in a purgatory where even Callaway isn't going to pay him unless he starts playing PGA Tour events again (yes, there are exit clauses that can be enabled if a player doesn't play enough on Tour or causes harm to the sponsor...the flip side is that if his likeness is used in ongoing marketing they have to pay him). The pause is real in that Callaway isn't interested in giving up on Phil yet, but they aren't paying him.

 

So Phil needs to find a way out of his contract with the SGL. The ideal situation for Phil would be for the SGL to be in breach by going defunct before the first tournament Phil is obligated to play in. Phil might also be able to find a way for the SGL to release him from his contract (either a clause or an agreed release).

Now if Phil can't get out of his contract prior to his first tournament obligation with the SGL, we will likely never see Phil play on the PGA Tour or Champions Tour again. He might still be able to play in the 4 majors while he has exemptions (the PGA Championship is separate from the Tour).

 

Anyway, that is why Phil's apology letter was written the way it was. He is 100% in with the Saudis for the time being.

Maybe this is all true (although not backed by any actual sources/facts), but I for one will say I don't believe most of it.

 

I don't have the facts/evidence either. But, I highly doubt Phil is in trouble financially.

 

He is a lot of things but I don't think he is stupid. Not stupid enough to be in trouble financially with $1.075 billion (No. 11 all-time according to Sportico: https://boardroom.tv/phil-mickelson-earnings-endorsements/) in career earnings.

 

Also the accusations about his marriage...heavy accusations.

 

But I guess it is easy to make these claims when they are done anonymously using anonymous sources.

 

Again, you could be right, but it also wouldn't be the first time anonymous sources were completely wrong about a public figure.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

23 minutes ago, ivygynonc said:

Banning is illegal.  It will the quickest antitrust ruling in US history.  Norman knows this and surely does the PGA tour.  If Norman could just get one relatively famous guy to sign on that has full multi year privileges on the PGAT, I'd be the house a 'ban' would not be imposed.  If it was, it would fail immediately and then the rest of the players would see that they truly have free rein to work as a 1099 in any capacity they wish to make money in their trade.  You simply cannot prevent someone from earning a wage in their trade.  Period.  

Is this your opinion as an attorney or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? 🙂

[BlackDiamondPar5]

10 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

Maybe this is all true (although not backed by any actual sources/facts), but I for one will say I don't believe most of it.

 

I don't have the facts/evidence either. But, I highly doubt Phil is in trouble financially.

 

He is a lot of things but I don't think he is stupid. Not stupid enough to be in trouble financially with $1.075 billion (No. 11 all-time according to Sportico: https://boardroom.tv/phil-mickelson-earnings-endorsements/) in career earnings.

 

Also the accusations about his marriage...heavy accusations.

 

But I guess it is easy to make these claims when they are done anonymously using anonymous sources.

 

Again, you could be right, but it also wouldn't be the first time anonymous sources were completely wrong about a public figure.

I agree. But if Phil doesn't show up at Augusta then his story starts to gain credibility.  Mickelson hasn't missed the last 27 Masters. 

[tacklingdummy]

5 hours ago, macnewma said:

 

The final risk is getting payment from LIV. Let's say some B level PGAT player in his mid 30s decides he is cool with all the risks because he might clear 20-40m for the first year. That would require LIV and the SGL to exist for an entire season and for the Saudis to deem it worthy of continuing. There is the chance that after 1-2 tournaments the Saudis pull the plug and tell the players to pound dirt. So this guy made $2m because he won the first event against a bunch of nobodies from the Asian tour, but now he has the ban which he was hoping LIV would fight in court. LIV no longer exists so is the player going to sue the Saudis in Saudi Arabia to get his "guaranteed" money?

 

The entire thing is a comparison of risk to reward. The PGA risk/reward calculus is well defined with virtually no risk for the top 125 guys. Every one of those guys has a sizeable retirement account and has made a minimum of a few million. Going forward those guys all have the opportunity to earn a fairly stable amount of money. Their sponsors also know they have a well defined platform with reliable viewers and well run events (btw this is really what the tour is setup for...it is the ultimate endorsement platform...better than any other sport on the planet).

 

The SGL has potentially higher reward. That is the easier part to define. The potential risks though are exceptional. We are talking the potential for career suicide.

 

You should listen to the Subpar podcast interviewing Greg Norman. It sounds like the 255 million to 8 events is totally committed. Those events are the beta test pilot events. They also sound like they already have some very notable names. They won't be all lower ranked players. But again even if they get lower ranked players that are world class players, they just have to be great players to watch.

 

Right now the Senior Champions Tour gets really high ratings and top senior players make more money than PGA tour pros ranked 40-200, but can the top senior players beat the lower world ranked players? I don't think so. It is all about creating a great product that get high ratings, so players that are great to watch play golf that have world class skills. The rankings is secondary and just a number. 

 

But at this time all the what-ifs-this or what-if-thats are just speculation. Only time will tell what really will happen. 

[Chrysalis99]

The PGA Tour is going to look poorly if some players want to enter one of the LIV events and is denied or banned for life. If the tour is granting exemptions for other events it would be rather arbitrary to just say no to these events when others are approved. This would seem like a lawyers wet dream and despite Monahan’s statements the Tour will likely seek their own legal advice before making those decisions concrete. 
 

Norman says they’ve had their own “legal scholars” look at it and confident independent contractors can play in one or more of these events. With LIV only being 8 events it’s not a competing “tour”. There should be some way for the PGA Tour and LIV to coexist. The players deserve the opportunity to compete for these paydays. 

[jmck]

1 hour ago, ivygynonc said:

Banning is illegal.  It will the quickest antitrust ruling in US history.  Norman knows this and surely does the PGA tour.  If Norman could just get one relatively famous guy to sign on that has full multi year privileges on the PGAT, I'd be the house a 'ban' would not be imposed.  If it was, it would fail immediately and then the rest of the players would see that they truly have free rein to work as a 1099 in any capacity they wish to make money in their trade.  You simply cannot prevent someone from earning a wage in their trade.  Period.  

Any player suing for being banned would need to show damages. What are they going to say? “Your honor, by accepting a guaranteed $1,000,000 for playing in golf event A, my client was prevented from playing for $0 guaranteed in golf event B, and thus denied his opportunity to earn a wage.” Good luck with that.

 

I mean the tour has already been sued for this and won. It’s maybe not an exact apples to apples comparison, but they have precedence on their side here.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

58 minutes ago, Chrysalis99 said:

The PGA Tour is going to look poorly if some players want to enter one of the LIV events and is denied or banned for life. If the tour is granting exemptions for other events it would be rather arbitrary to just say no to these events when others are approved. This would seem like a lawyers wet dream and despite Monahan’s statements the Tour will likely seek their own legal advice before making those decisions concrete. 
 

Norman says they’ve had their own “legal scholars” look at it and confident independent contractors can play in one or more of these events. With LIV only being 8 events it’s not a competing “tour”. There should be some way for the PGA Tour and LIV to coexist. The players deserve the opportunity to compete for these paydays. 

If Norman had "legal scholars" then why did he himself pen  an amateurish legal threat to Monahan? It was laughable and resembled a gang threat written with spray paint in a rivals turf. 🙂

 

Then of course what's wrong with another league? Normally nothing, especially if it creates opportunities for those in other markets that wouldn't normally have a chance to play on any tour. However the SGL is not that at all. It's a league funded by Saudi money to buy pawns to whitewash their human rights atrocities. A government that not only turned a blind eye, but also funded radical preachers. Preachers that taught death to the America and convinced radicals to kill over over 3,000 innocent people on American soil. We should never forget and frankly it's disgusting that some people have been blinded by dollar signs and have forgotten. 

[BenSeattle]

3 hours ago, ivygynonc said:

I'd be the house a 'ban' would not be imposed.  If it was, it would fail immediately and then the rest of the players would see that they truly have free rein to work as a 1099 in any capacity they wish to make money in their trade.  You simply cannot prevent someone from earning a wage in their trade.  Period.  

 

Well, the PGA Tour is NOT saying that.  They're saying that you joined our association, you agreed to the rules established by its very own members, and if you violate that agreement then we have the right to ban you from our events.  They're certainly not preventing players from making a living; you just can't make it here.  There's Europe, there's Asia...  take your game anywhere else.

[BenSeattle]

2 hours ago, ivygynonc said:

Rejecting his application to play in an event that he is exempt for based on either past win (masters and Open) or recent PGA win, is collusion. 

 

Sorry but I don't understand your use of the "collusion" argument here.  Collusion occurs when two separate entities secretly agree to take unilateral action against someone else; banning together, if you will, to create strength in numbers.  I don't see that happening here.  This is the PGA Tour simply saying that you're a member of our association and you violated the rules set forth by that association.  By violating these rules, you create your own jeopardy and thus we DO have the right to ban or suspend you as we see fit.  

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

You should listen to the Subpar podcast interviewing Greg Norman. It sounds like the 255 million to 8 events is totally committed. Those events are the beta test pilot events. They also sound like they already have some very notable names. They won't be all lower ranked players. But again even if they get lower ranked players that are world class players, they just have to be great players to watch.

 

Right now the Senior Champions Tour gets really high ratings and top senior players make more money than PGA tour pros ranked 40-200, but can the top senior players beat the lower world ranked players? I don't think so. It is all about creating a great product that get high ratings, so players that are great to watch play golf that have world class skills. The rankings is secondary and just a number. 

 

But at this time all the what-ifs-this or what-if-thats are just speculation. Only time will tell what really will happen. 

The Champions Tour does not get really high ratings