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Low bounce wedges for firm, dry turf?


Eazy Mac
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Just moved out to Denver from Northern Virginia. I was used to playing on fluffy wet grass a lot and my CBX2 wedges worked great for that, everything from chipping to 30-50 yard shots never give me much trouble. 
 

Ive played a few rounds out here and am having a lot of trouble chipping and hitting those half shots with the CBX2s. Feels like I’m hitting them fat but the club skips off the ground and contact is thin, not able to clip the ball clean like i used to. The bounces for my 50, 54, 58 are all 10-12 degrees and I'm wondering if look into some with a lower bounce instead.

 

Thoughts? Any technique for hitting off turf like this with mid-high bounce wedges?

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  • Eazy Mac changed the title to Low bounce wedges for firm, dry turf?

This link will explain it and provide guidance….  I play in the dessert and my CBX Zipcores play just fine on the firm grass here  in Vegas.  Hope the link help!  What part of Northern VA are you from?  I just moved out to Vegas from Fairfax, VA.

 

https://www.vokey.com/explained/wedge-bounce#

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7 minutes ago, Sons_of_Pitches said:

This link will explain it and provide guidance….  I play in the dessert and my CBX Zipcores play just fine on the firm grass here  in Vegas.  Hope the link help!  What part of Northern VA are you from?  I just moved out to Vegas from Fairfax, VA.

 

https://www.vokey.com/explained/wedge-bounce#


Nice! That definitely helps a bit. And yea I’m from Fairfax too, went to Woodson high school, graduated 2012

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Cool, fellow Robison HS here (need a way back machine for my graduation date - ‘87) and graduated college from GMU.  

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DRIVER - PXG 0311 GEN 5 @ 10.5 

FAIRWAY WOODS - PING G425 14.5* / 17.5* / 20.5*

HYBRIDS - PXG 0317 X GEN2 19*/22*

IRONS - TITLEIST T100-S [5i-GW]

WEDGES - TITLEIST 54.10S / 58.10S

PUTTER - Deadbolt Reverse Armlock

PXG 0317 X

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Having a high bounce wedge on firm turf would be no problem if your AOA is steep (in your case it isn't, which is a good thing).  I think you should upgrade to lower bounce wedges.  In the meantime, why don't you open the face of your PW and make those same shots?  The bounce on PWs are generally low and will make it slide under the ball no problem, just address it a few inches behind it with that open face and chip and pitch away.  When I practice chipping, I usually practice off the worst lies possible (bare lies, ground under repair) and that's how I do it.  Makes it stupid easy when playing off fluffier lies when playing for real.

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For lower bounce wedges I really liked the Mizuno T20, and I am sure the T22 are just as good.  Lower bounce but little bit if a wider sole which I think helps them feel like they have a little more.

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1 hour ago, cgasucks said:

Having a high bounce wedge on firm turf would be no problem if you AOA is steep (in your case it isn't, which is a good thing).  I think you should upgrade to lower bounce wedges.  In the meantime, why don't you open the face of your PW and make those same shots?  The bounce on PWs are generally low and will make it slide under the ball no problem, just address it a few inches behind it with that open face and chip and pitch away.  When I practice chipping, I usually practice off the worst lies possible (bare lies, ground under repair) and that's how I do it.  Makes it stupid easy when playing off fluffier lies when playing for real.


Thats a good point, i generally don’t try to manipulate the face much with stronger lofted clubs for chip type shots. Something i need to work on for sure, but ill give that a try thanks.

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So my kids just got Mike Schy hand ground ground wedges. He does them both from raw s25 blanks from Kyoei and he alters Cobras. You can check some of them out on his Instagram. My kids have taken to calling them the “magic Mike” grinds. 
 

Not kidding, best I have ever tried. Dragonfly golf gets next to zero water. The grinds are $$$.

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I’m in Florida and we get firm, tight lies during dry “winter” season and it’s lush during the wet season.
 

Are the conditions in VA firm and dry in the summer as well? 
 

I would recommend a mix of grinds to handle different lies and hazards. I also echo the T22 as a great low bounce wedge. 

 

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I have 14 clubs.

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11 hours ago, Eazy Mac said:

Thoughts? Any technique for hitting off turf like this with mid-high bounce wedges?

 

One technique is called "engage the bounce"... this likely would require a rework of your wedge game. 

 

On 4/13/2021 at 7:04 PM, ChipNRun said:

And, another approach is the "engage the bounce" philosophy. Bouncers have mid-high to very high bounce wedges, and skim the club along the ground to make contact with the ball. Bouncers do not engage the leading edge, nor take long beaver pelt divots. The idea is that bouncers get a margin of error. If the shot is hit a little fat, it will have less backspin and roll out toward pin. If the shot is picked clean, it will carry farther in the air and bite more (less rollout). The big-divot crowd tends to have a good shot or a bad shot.

 

From 2021 CB or Blade post.

 

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I have a very similar issue...during winter/early spring here in Florida.

 

During late spring, summer, and early fall the turf here is moist and soft. During winter courses overseed with rye and the turf gets firmer and drier. 

 

Last year I decided to put a lower bounce 60 in my bag. I have 2 60* wedges now...60-10 (for soft conditions) and a 60-08 for firm conditions. The change in bounce is perfect for chipping. However, I struggle to hit shots close from 40-80 yards with the lower bounce. Turf interaction on the longer shots is just off. I swap to the 60-10 and i knock those shots much closer.

 

What can you do...

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SoCal guy here. I recently went from a Vokey M grind to Vokey WedgeWorks T grind in my lob wedge and its made such a difference for me. Having the low bounce (4 degrees) and allowed me to play off the tight firm lies better than I have. 

 

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While it’s nice having wedges suited to conditions, I think this probably has more to do with technique than anything. 
 

I struggled when I moved from WA to AZ and had the same initial reaction of needing lower bounce here. Now I can use 14 degrees of bounce off the cart path if I need to. Monte’s Use the bounce  is a good place to start and the 1.0 series is free. 
 

My current setup is the SM9 in 56-14F and 60-08M. 

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52 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

While it’s nice having wedges suited to conditions, I think this probably has more to do with technique than anything. 
 

I struggled when I moved from WA to AZ and had the same initial reaction of needing lower bounce here. Now I can use 14 degrees of bounce off the cart path if I need to. Monte’s Use the bounce  is a good place to start and the 1.0 series is free. 
 

My current setup is the SM9 in 56-14F and 60-08M. 

I second the Monte video. Excellent technique and works on all lies. 

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I have 14 clubs.

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3 hours ago, Jmccas said:

I’m in Florida and we get firm, tight lies during dry “winter” season and it’s lush during the wet season.
 

Are the conditions in VA firm and dry in the summer as well? 
 

I would recommend a mix of grinds to handle different lies and hazards. I also echo the T22 as a great low bounce wedge. 

 

 

VA gets a decent amount of rain year round, and humid in the summer. Definitely softer more often than not. Ive heard things from Mizuno i'll look into those, thanks.

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i've been having similar issues on the opposite scale and wondering the same thing to rotate some wedges. To answer your title i would say "yes" low bounce is typically better from firm turf, depending on your technique though. it's best to hit down behind the ball, rather than sweeping.

 

I am gaming 52/12, 56/7, 60/4, however, with different grinds, classic and 2x wide.

 

Personally, i don't like "engage the bounce" because the technique feels clunky to "doof" the wedge down against the ground, for me, this is a recipe for disaster for a skullshot, so i switched to hitting down steeper. However, i will suffer in the soggy wet conditions from distance judgement, as i typically ned to hit it 30-50% harder, which i can't really trust.

 

my 64/12 hie toe, on the other hand is pretty successfull under the same conditions, as it won't dig as much with a higher bounce and wider sole.

 

As an example, 4* bounce from a hard packed sand works wonders for a regular shot, whereas, it won't get the ball out from a soft fluffy bunker.

 

Soft needs bounce, hard does not. The grinds will vary your results. Otherwise, you need to increase or decrease the effective bounce by face control.

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For me, sole width and sole grind are far more important than bounce. I moved from an area that had a bunch of zoysia fairways and fescue rough to an area that is all Bermuda. Fairways are cut really tight and get extremely firm in the summer, wet and dormant tight lies in the winter. 
 

I struggled when I first moved and switched to low bounce to try to counter it. Didn’t work at all for me. I’m now playing a 56 14 f grind and 60 12 D grind with no issues at all because the soles work for what I like to do around the greens. I have a Glide 60 ES grind I still bring out when it is really wet or wet and dormant. It has less bounce than the vokey d grind but it does better in soft and wet and the D grind is better off tight firm lies for me. 
 

I tried the cbx2 very briefly and didn’t get along with the v sole. 

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On 4/6/2022 at 9:21 AM, GMcKelvie said:

SoCal guy here. I recently went from a Vokey M grind to Vokey WedgeWorks T grind in my lob wedge and its made such a difference for me. Having the low bounce (4 degrees) and allowed me to play off the tight firm lies better than I have. 

 

 

The T-grind has been getting a lot of love lately.  How did you get one though since they aren't available to the public?  I've been wanting one . . .

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4 minutes ago, THT28 said:

 

The T-grind has been getting a lot of love lately.  How did you get one though since they aren't available to the public?  I've been wanting one . . .


Found one that was almost never used on eBay. From what I’m hearing, Wedgeworks will be dropping them for sale this summer online. I’ll likely buy another to have a fresh one sitting around for when needed. Best wedge I’ve ever used 

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2 minutes ago, GMcKelvie said:


Found one that was almost never used on eBay. From what I’m hearing, Wedgeworks will be dropping them for sale this summer online. I’ll likely buy another to have a fresh one sitting around for when needed. Best wedge I’ve ever used 

 

Well that's good to hear.  Too bad those Wedge Works releases cost a fortune!  Are you a sweeper or digger?  What do you think that grind helps you do?  I appreciate the feedback as I probably won't get to try one before I buy one . . .

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6 minutes ago, THT28 said:

 

Well that's good to hear.  Too bad those Wedge Works releases cost a fortune!  Are you a sweeper or digger?  What do you think that grind helps you do?  I appreciate the feedback as I probably won't get to try one before I buy one . . .

I’m about 3 down with a wedge so more of a sweeper. This wedge let’s me play the club straight or open it all the way up on a tight or fluffy lie. Because of it, I can get more spin around the greens than I’ve ever been able to. Because of that, I feel like I can go after pins with chip shots that I couldn’t have gone after before. Probably save myself 2 strokes a round because of it. 

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19 minutes ago, GMcKelvie said:

I’m about 3 down with a wedge so more of a sweeper. This wedge let’s me play the club straight or open it all the way up on a tight or fluffy lie. Because of it, I can get more spin around the greens than I’ve ever been able to. Because of that, I feel like I can go after pins with chip shots that I couldn’t have gone after before. Probably save myself 2 strokes a round because of it. 

 

Sounds pretty good!  I just don't care for the SM9's . . . Just wish I could find a like-new raw SM8 T-grind . . .

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I'm over on the Maryland side of the Beltway so conditions should be similar to yours.  I use a 56 deg sand wedge with 12 degrees of bounce and a 60 deg lob wedge with 6 degrees of bounce.  For normal bunkers I use the 56 but for hard packed sand I go to the 60.  Same when on grass - soft conditions I use the 56 and the 60 for firm lies.  Works fine.  I don't consciously manipulate the head (other than in sand) - just swing.  

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