Pano going pro

[Bizzle80]

20 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

How is Alexa's game stacking up against Asian female golfers?  Does she have what it takes to dethrone them?

 

This question is so unintentionally biased (not saying racist!) I don't even know where to begin. The question should be 'How is Alexa's game stacking up against pro female golfers?' Never-mind that 7 of the top 10 on Epson Tour - where Pano will be playing - are non-Asian players...and then please don't start lumping in American born players as 'foreign asian players' as two of the other in top 10 are American's of Asian descent.

 

Regardless we would never ask this in any sport. Would we ask a white basketball draft prospect how he would stack up against Black players in the NBA? No, because the color of their skin has zero bearing on them as competitors.

 

Same applies here.

 

[Medson]

1 hour ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

This question is so unintentionally biased (not saying racist!) I don't even know where to begin. The question should be 'How is Alexa's game stacking up against pro female golfers?' Never-mind that 7 of the top 10 on Epson Tour - where Pano will be playing - are non-Asian players...and then please don't start lumping in American born players as 'foreign asian players' as two of the other in top 10 are American's of Asian descent.

 

Regardless we would never ask this in any sport. Would we ask a white basketball draft prospect how he would stack up against Black players in the NBA? No, because the color of their skin has zero bearing on them as competitors.

 

Same applies here.

 

Agree 100%. Maybe Alexa (and frankly all of us) should focus on being a better Alexa, instead beating players from certain region. 

[Goldenhawk]

6 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

This question is so unintentionally biased (not saying racist!) I don't even know where to begin. The question should be 'How is Alexa's game stacking up against pro female golfers?' Never-mind that 7 of the top 10 on Epson Tour - where Pano will be playing - are non-Asian players...and then please don't start lumping in American born players as 'foreign asian players' as two of the other in top 10 are American's of Asian descent.

 

Regardless we would never ask this in any sport. Would we ask a white basketball draft prospect how he would stack up against Black players in the NBA? No, because the color of their skin has zero bearing on them as competitors.

 

Same applies here.

 

Alexa should be worried about being to driving the ball to keep up with the Korda Sisters and Pai Babnik (closeness in age might make comparisons with Babnik routine).  Is Alexa a better putter than the likes of Alexis Thompson?  Is Pano a complete package like Lorena Ochoa and Annika Sorenstam?  Too many variables at this stage in the start of her young career.

[golfortennis]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:39 PM, capking said:

Can’t she get the exact same endorsements there? I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if they do an updated one off documentary since 2 of them that I know of are prominent. I honestly felt so old knowing that I watched that doc like 10 years ago and they were playing at Augusta haha

 

I think the issue is that while a number of NIL deals are presented as endorsements, the value only comes about from being at the alma mater of the benefactor.  I can just about guarantee the Alabama QB's reported $1M deal would not be available were he not Alabama's QB.  At least not from that sponsor.  

 

I'm not saying this is wrong, but the NIL stuff has basically legalized the under the table deals that have been going on for years.  Basically the endorsement deals as a pro have to show a return on investment, whereas NIL deals with college athletes do not carry the same requirements.

[capking]

35 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

I think the issue is that while a number of NIL deals are presented as endorsements, the value only comes about from being at the alma mater of the benefactor.  I can just about guarantee the Alabama QB's reported $1M deal would not be available were he not Alabama's QB.  At least not from that sponsor.  

 

I'm not saying this is wrong, but the NIL stuff has basically legalized the under the table deals that have been going on for years.  Basically the endorsement deals as a pro have to show a return on investment, whereas NIL deals with college athletes do not carry the same requirements.

That’s the extreme end of it, I just meant in this instance her name recognition outside of college golf fans is from Netflix. So where she plays isn’t as relevant.

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, capking said:

That’s the extreme end of it, I just meant in this instance her name recognition outside of college golf fans is from Netflix. So where she plays isn’t as relevant.

 

But what I'm saying is, if I'm looking to sponsor a professional, I want to know that I will see some form of a return.  Is name recognition from Netflix enough?  I don't know.

 

But I can pretty much guarantee she doesn't have the exact same endorsement deals as if she had gone to college, are not there, because in a lot of cases, they are there because of matriculation to that school, and not nearly as much because of that name recognition.

[tiger1873]

12 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

But what I'm saying is, if I'm looking to sponsor a professional, I want to know that I will see some form of a return.  Is name recognition from Netflix enough?  I don't know.

 

But I can pretty much guarantee she doesn't have the exact same endorsement deals as if she had gone to college, are not there, because in a lot of cases, they are there because of matriculation to that school, and not nearly as much because of that name recognition.

 

There is no reason to speculate on deals at this point. If she has a big corporate deal we will know in the next few months.   She could have private sponsors or investors already and that might have factored into everything. 

 

Some claims of how important college is for sponsorship is just pure FUD.   The only way college helps with sponsorship is if there is Alumni that they met at college that want to sponsor them.  

 

At the end of the day becoming pro means she started her own business.  An amateur has to win to stay relevant but a pro just needs to make enough money to be successful. She could never win a tournament as a pro but end up being a motivation speaker  talking about her success as an amateur.

[mikedellgolf]

How did Alexa Pano do on her first tournament after turning pro?

 

I thought she was one of the top amateur golfer in the world, but after I read more about Pano, she was the 64th ranked amateur player in the world,  that's very low to me.  What is her probability of success on the LPGA tour?

[MB19]

3 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

How did Alexa Pano do on her first tournament after turning pro?

 

I thought she was one of the top amateur golfer in the world, but after I read more about Pano, she was the 64th ranked amateur player in the world,  that's very low to me.  What is her probability of success on the LPGA tour?

Pano is probably going to concentrate on qualifying for the US Womens Open before worrying about the Epson Tour, I would imagine.

 

Why are you attempting to measure her success now, instead of in 2-3 years?

 

When an MLB team drafts a high schooler, do you evaluate him after his first season in low-A and decide whether or not he should have went to college?

 

Her AJGA ranking was #2 before she announced her intent to turn pro, was it not?

 

Other than knowing people who have played with or now this girl, I've got zero stake in how she does going forward.  It seems weird to flex some pre-conceived notion she has already failed.

[mikedellgolf]

1 hour ago, MB19 said:

Pano is probably going to concentrate on qualifying for the US Womens Open before worrying about the Epson Tour, I would imagine.

 

Why are you attempting to measure her success now, instead of in 2-3 years?

 

When an MLB team drafts a high schooler, do you evaluate him after his first season in low-A and decide whether or not he should have went to college?

 

Her AJGA ranking was #2 before she announced her intent to turn pro, was it not?

 

Other than knowing people who have played with or now this girl, I've got zero stake in how she does going forward.  It seems weird to flex some pre-conceived notion she has already failed.

 

I don't know whether she is going to succeed on the LPGA, that will be answered in the next five years. 

 

I don't know about her AJGA ranking but she ranked 64th in the world amateur of golf, according to this article:  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/alexa-pano-professional-ncaa-augusta-national-womens-amateur-epson-tour

 

She might be #2 in AJGA but she is still ranked 64th in world amateur golf, which is a very steep hill to climb and compete to make a living in the LPGA.  I hope she will succeed but the situation is not in her favor.

[heavy_hitter]

17 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

How did Alexa Pano do on her first tournament after turning pro?

 

I thought she was one of the top amateur golfer in the world, but after I read more about Pano, she was the 64th ranked amateur player in the world,  that's very low to me.  What is her probability of success on the LPGA tour?

https://www.epsontour.com/players/alexa-pano/99498/results

 

https://www.epsontour.com/tournaments/copper-rock-championship/results

[BloctonGolf11]

14 hours ago, MB19 said:

Pano is probably going to concentrate on qualifying for the US Womens Open before worrying about the Epson Tour, I would imagine.

 

Why are you attempting to measure her success now, instead of in 2-3 years?

 

When an MLB team drafts a high schooler, do you evaluate him after his first season in low-A and decide whether or not he should have went to college?

 

Her AJGA ranking was #2 before she announced her intent to turn pro, was it not?

 

Other than knowing people who have played with or now this girl, I've got zero stake in how she does going forward.  It seems weird to flex some pre-conceived notion she has already failed.

Baseball and golf are two very different worlds. No one expects you to be competing at the MLB level immediately out of HS and you are under contract and have other incentives helping keep you afloat. The amount of money Pano is going to have to spend on tournaments, travel, etc is going to be pretty astronomical and as is well known you don't make money as a professional woman's golfer unless you are at the elite level. I mean the top of the Epson money leaderboard right now is $42,000, I guarantee you she is well into the red for the year economically. Comparatively top Korn Ferry player is almost $250,000. Moral of the story she needs to make a splash fairly quickly. I think judging off one or two tournaments is pretty silly but if there are not very encouraging signs by the end of the year the questions will be raised. She doesn't have three years to prove herself and this unorthodox decision as the correct one. Same goes for Akshay who outside one tournament win has done essentially nothing on the KF Tour.

[Abh159]

I know nothing about the Epson Tour, but is 8-9 over a normal cut line? That seems really, really high...

[mikedellgolf]

30 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Baseball and golf are two very different worlds. No one expects you to be competing at the MLB level immediately out of HS and you are under contract and have other incentives helping keep you afloat. The amount of money Pano is going to have to spend on tournaments, travel, etc is going to be pretty astronomical and as is well known you don't make money as a professional woman's golfer unless you are at the elite level. I mean the top of the Epson money leaderboard right now is $42,000, I guarantee you she is well into the red for the year economically. Comparatively top Korn Ferry player is almost $250,000. Moral of the story she needs to make a splash fairly quickly. I think judging off one or two tournaments is pretty silly but if there are not very encouraging signs by the end of the year the questions will be raised. She doesn't have three years to prove herself and this unorthodox decision as the correct one. Same goes for Akshay who outside one tournament win has done essentially nothing on the KF Tour.

https://www.golfwrx.com/664995/former-lpga-pro-shares-detailed-breakdown-of-expenses-for-a-year-on-symetra-tour/

 

The figure was in 2013 so the number is much higher today.  Golf and tennis are very much the same.  You don't make money as a professional unless you're at the elite level.

 

I am pulling for Alexa Pano to succeed but it is a very tough road ahead for her.

[BloctonGolf11]

6 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

https://www.golfwrx.com/664995/former-lpga-pro-shares-detailed-breakdown-of-expenses-for-a-year-on-symetra-tour/

 

The figure was in 2013 so the number is much higher today.  Golf and tennis are very much the same.  You don't make money as a professional unless you're at the elite level.

 

I am pulling for Alexa Pano to succeed but it is a very tough road ahead for her.

Yep, and if you are making the jump from HS to Pro you are making that jump based on the fact that you can compete immediately, you are throwing out the idea of a long development. 

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, MB19 said:

Pano is probably going to concentrate on qualifying for the US Womens Open before worrying about the Epson Tour, I would imagine.

 

Why are you attempting to measure her success now, instead of in 2-3 years?

 

When an MLB team drafts a high schooler, do you evaluate him after his first season in low-A and decide whether or not he should have went to college?

 

Her AJGA ranking was #2 before she announced her intent to turn pro, was it not?

 

Other than knowing people who have played with or now this girl, I've got zero stake in how she does going forward.  It seems weird to flex some pre-conceived notion she has already failed.

Kind of the rule of thumb for women's golf is if you are 14-16 and can compete on the LPGA, then you do it.  Otherwise you go to school for 4 years for Education, Free Training, Free Golf, Free tournaments.  She may get some sponsorship money, but really how much and it isn't going to last but for a couple of years.  Hard to live on the Epson tour and the better way to go to LPGA is through Q-School.

[Shilgy]

41 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

I know nothing about the Epson Tour, but is 8-9 over a normal cut line? That seems really, really high...

No, but if you look at the scoring it appears the weather was likely an issue in round 1.

[MB19]

11 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Baseball and golf are two very different worlds. No one expects you to be competing at the MLB level immediately out of HS and you are under contract and have other incentives helping keep you afloat. The amount of money Pano is going to have to spend on tournaments, travel, etc is going to be pretty astronomical and as is well known you don't make money as a professional woman's golfer unless you are at the elite level. I mean the top of the Epson money leaderboard right now is $42,000, I guarantee you she is well into the red for the year economically. Comparatively top Korn Ferry player is almost $250,000. Moral of the story she needs to make a splash fairly quickly. I think judging off one or two tournaments is pretty silly but if there are not very encouraging signs by the end of the year the questions will be raised. She doesn't have three years to prove herself and this unorthodox decision as the correct one. Same goes for Akshay who outside one tournament win has done essentially nothing on the KF Tour.

The money she earns on the Epson tour is almost irrelevant.  If she went into this without outside financial backing, of course it is a bad idea.  Knowing South Florida, she almost certainly has a backing.

[MB19]

11 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Baseball and golf are two very different worlds. No one expects you to be competing at the MLB level immediately out of HS.

If you follow any given team's baseball twitter, for example, you will see elevated expectations for top-10 picks.

 

Detroit drafted Jackson Jobe #3 overall, and much of the fanbase was irate because they wanted one of two young shortstops drafted.

 

After Jobe's first start (one inning, where the catcher couldn't corral the kid's 3000 rpm slider) twitter was going nuts with catcalls, declarations the kid was a bust, and so on.  In short, they expected the righty version of Kershaw right out of the gate.  When a kid gets a $7-$8M signing bonus, that's a ton of pressure to perform in spite of what peace of mind one may think they have financially. 

 

All Pano is risking was whatever scholly may or may not have been on the table.  The kid wants to golf, so she golfed.  Not every athlete is built for the classroom.

[MB19]

On 4/26/2022 at 8:37 PM, mikedellgolf said:

 

She might be #2 in AJGA but she is still ranked 64th in world amateur golf, which is a very steep hill to climb and compete to make a living in the LPGA.  I hope she will succeed but the situation is not in her favor.

By your tone, it is hard to take you at your word here.

[tiger1873]

21 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Baseball and golf are two very different worlds. No one expects you to be competing at the MLB level immediately out of HS and you are under contract and have other incentives helping keep you afloat. The amount of money Pano is going to have to spend on tournaments, travel, etc is going to be pretty astronomical and as is well known you don't make money as a professional woman's golfer unless you are at the elite level. I mean the top of the Epson money leaderboard right now is $42,000, I guarantee you she is well into the red for the year economically. Comparatively top Korn Ferry player is almost $250,000. Moral of the story she needs to make a splash fairly quickly. I think judging off one or two tournaments is pretty silly but if there are not very encouraging signs by the end of the year the questions will be raised. She doesn't have three years to prove herself and this unorthodox decision as the correct one. Same goes for Akshay who outside one tournament win has done essentially nothing on the KF Tour.

 

Most the players on the epson tour spent a lot money playing amateur events including Pano.  If it only covers partial costs she is better off then playing events that give you $0.

 

Even if you go the college route there are till going to be events she would have to pay for.

 

You are also only looking at the tournament winnings.  Pro's can make money in other ways too.  It's not just big endorsements either.  If you want to teach other people and get paid for instance you can't be an amateur.  

 

Playing college golf is not going to give her anything more golf wise so there was no reason for her to go.

[mikedellgolf]

10 hours ago, MB19 said:

By your tone, it is hard to take you at your word here.

 

I am just going with the facts here.  It is one thing if she is in the top five amateur golfers in the world, like Joaquin Neimann, when he turned pro, it is an entirely different matter when you turn pro as the 64th amateur rank player in the world.  She has a steep hill to climb.  As someone already pointed out in this thread, Pano is now a professional, she has to compete and has no time for developing her game.  She has to compete with the best of the best and the situation is not in her favor.

 

You brought up the #2 AGJA.  That means she is the #2 player in the US, not the whole world.  The #1 USTA tennis player might be the 50th best junior tennis player in the world.  You need to think global, not domestic.

[mikedellgolf]

30 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

You are also only looking at the tournament winnings.  Pro's can make money in other ways too.  It's not just big endorsements either.  If you want to teach other people and get paid for instance you can't be an amateur."

 

You know there are rules but that particular rule can be easily circumvented.  Alexa Pano can "volunteer" to teach people without being paid but there is nothing to stop these people from giving money to Alexa's father, who then can support Alexa to fulfill her golf dream.  Her father "might" have to pay taxes over a certain amount but it is perfectly legit in the eye of the IRS.

 

That might be a violation of the "spirit of the rule" but not the "letter of the rule".  In other words, completely legit.

[Jkhogbear]

33 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

You brought up the #2 AGJA.  That means she is the #2 player in the US, not the whole world.  The #1 USTA tennis player might be the 50th best junior tennis player in the world.  You need to think global, not domestic

Not true, AJGA rankings include a lot of international players.   Her WAGR ranking is actually quite good for someone her age. 

[BloctonGolf11]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Most the players on the epson tour spent a lot money playing amateur events including Pano.  If it only covers partial costs she is better off then playing events that give you $0.

 

Even if you go the college route there are till going to be events she would have to pay for.

 

You are also only looking at the tournament winnings.  Pro's can make money in other ways too.  It's not just big endorsements either.  If you want to teach other people and get paid for instance you can't be an amateur.  

 

Playing college golf is not going to give her anything more golf wise so there was no reason for her to go.

"You are also only looking at the tournament winnings.  Pro's can make money in other ways too.  It's not just big endorsements either.  If you want to teach other people and get paid for instance you can't be an amateur."

 

Pano isn't going to be out at the range teaching golfers anytime soon and the endorsements and other money is pennies compared to the men. Scheffler's winnings are almost double this year than what Nelly Korda has in her career. In 5 months Scheffler has won almost as much as Lexi Thompson has in a decade. Endorsements are laughably inferior for the women as well. 

 

"Playing college golf is not going to give her anything more golf wise so there was no reason for her to go."

 

Bold and ridiculous statement to say playing college golf for an elite program against elite competition was not going to give her anything. If she was playing college for a few years continuing to develop her expenses would be a fraction of what they are now.

 

Personally I hope she is the next Nelly Korda and wish her only the best but the decision is definitely rife with pitfalls and risks. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by BloctonGolf11

[heavy_hitter]

 

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

Playing college golf is not going to give her anything more golf wise so there was no reason for her to go.

 

Absolutely Incorrect statement.  She would be in competition at the collegiate level against players better than most of the players on the Epson Tour.  

[mikedellgolf]

1 hour ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Personally I hope she is the next Nelly Korda and wish her only the best but the decision is definitely rife with pitfalls and risks. 

 

Nelly Korda's parents were world class athletes.  Her father was a tennis major champion and a highly ranked ATP player.  Her mother was also a top 30th tennis player on the WTA tour.  You could say that both Nelly and Jessica Korda are blessed with athletic genes, on top of unbelievable work ethics.

 

1 hour ago, Jkhogbear said:

Not true, AJGA rankings include a lot of international players.   Her WAGR ranking is actually quite good for someone her age. 

 

I'll stick with the WAGR as the bench  mark, not the AJGA.

 

Alexa ranked 64th (or 44th depending on where you look) when she decided to turn pro.  She is quite good BUT now that she has turned professional, she has compete with other professionals who are currently much better than she is at the moment.  In other words, she will not have time to develop her games, more like trial by fire.  I am not sure that is such a good thing.  I hope she has a good financial baker to support her for the next three years.

[BloctonGolf11]

4 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

 

Nelly Korda's parents were world class athletes.  Her father was a tennis major champion and a highly ranked ATP player.  Her mother was also a top 30th tennis player on the WTA tour.  You could say that both Nelly and Jessica Korda are blessed with athletic genes, on top of unbelievable work ethics.

 

 

We all know that, doesn't really have that much bearing on the conversation on Pano, I was just saying I wish Pano all the success in the world and right now in women's golf Nelly is the benchmark. 

[Abh159]

7 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

Alexa ranked 64th (or 44th depending on where you look) when she decided to turn pro.  She is quite good BUT now that she has turned professional, she has compete with other professionals who are currently much better than she is at the moment.  In other words, she will not have time to develop her games, more like trial by fire.  I am not sure that is such a good thing.  I hope she has a good financial baker to support her for the next three years.

 

I have no idea if she'll be successful or not, but why do you keep saying this? You do realize that professional golfers still practice right? They aren't playing tournament rounds 24/7/365...

 

Even if you look at Tiger who (aside from maybe Bobby Jones) was the most accomplished amateur golfer of all time, he won more tournaments in his 4 year as a professional than he did in the first 3 years combined. 7 wins in his first three years is remarkable, but it did take him several years as a pro to really develop into the payer he became.

[BloctonGolf11]

9 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I have no idea if she'll be successful or not, but why do you keep saying this? You do realize that professional golfers still practice right? They aren't playing tournament rounds 24/7/365...

 

Even if you look at Tiger who (aside from maybe Bobby Jones) was the most accomplished amateur golfer of all time, he won more tournaments in his 4 year as a professional than he did in the first 3 years combined. 7 wins in his first three years is remarkable, but it did take him several years as a pro to really develop into the payer he became.

Difference is Tiger also developed in college before turning pro. He was 20 when he turned pro not 17.