Pano going pro

[jt2gt]

20 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I have no idea if she'll be successful or not, but why do you keep saying this? You do realize that professional golfers still practice right? They aren't playing tournament rounds 24/7/365...

 

Even if you look at Tiger who (aside from maybe Bobby Jones) was the most accomplished amateur golfer of all time, he won more tournaments in his 4 year as a professional than he did in the first 3 years combined. 7 wins in his first three years is remarkable, but it did take him several years as a pro to really develop into the payer he became.

Yeah...I mean the commercials say Cheyenne Woods practices 4 hours a day. 🤣

[Abh159]

7 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Difference is Tiger also developed in college before turning pro. He was 20 when he turned pro not 17. 

 

Sure, but going to college doesn't guarantee success. 99% of people who play in college still take several years of playing professionally before they really break through. There are exceptions to that (Morikawa, Hovland, and etc.), but there are also exceptions for people who didn't go to college (Rory, Sergio, Cam Smith, and etc.).

 

For the record, I think going to college is always the best idea. I'm just saying that her not going the college route isn't a death sentence like some people make it out to be. Also, @mikedellgolf appears to be under the assumption that the only place and time to "develop your game" is in college, and that just isn't true. 

[BloctonGolf11]

8 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Sure, but going to college doesn't guarantee success. 99% of people who play in college still take several years of playing professionally before they really break through. There are exceptions to that (Morikawa, Hovland, and etc.), but there are also exceptions for people who didn't go to college (Rory, Sergio, Cam Smith, and etc.).

 

For the record, I think going to college is always the best idea. I'm just saying that her not going the college route isn't a death sentence like some people make it out to be. Also, @mikedellgolf appears to be under the assumption that the only place and time to "develop your game" is in college, and that just isn't true. 

Never said going to college guarantees success but comparing a 17 year old and a 20 year old is a drastic difference. Also, the financial realities of Tiger's leap vs. Pano's leap gave him much more wiggle room comparatively. However, you are 100% correct that your game still develops, particularly in the early stages of your career. I don't think foregoing college is a "death sentence" I just don't think it makes any practical sense whatsoever as it is negating numerous positives while bringing absolutely nothing positive on its own. It is a one sided cost benefit analysis from a pragmatic and practical standpoint. 

[mikedellgolf]

2 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Sure, but going to college doesn't guarantee success. 99% of people who play in college still take several years of playing professionally before they really break through. There are exceptions to that (Morikawa, Hovland, and etc.), but there are also exceptions for people who didn't go to college (Rory, Sergio, Cam Smith, and etc.).

 

For the record, I think going to college is always the best idea. I'm just saying that her not going the college route isn't a death sentence like some people make it out to be. Also, @mikedellgolf appears to be under the assumption that the only place and time to "develop your game" is in college, and that just isn't true. 

I never said or assumed that.  What I said is that Pano ranked 64th (or 44th depend on where you get the info from) in the WAGR when she turned pro.  That's very steep hill for her to climb out.  It would have been different if Pano ranked in the top five of WAGR when she turned pro.  When you turn pro, it changes everything because you're under pressure to perform to put food on the table.  TW was #1 WGAR when he turned pro.  The same goes with Joaquin Neimann.

 

When you're not in the top 20th of WGAR, it might be a good idea to continue to develop your game without the pressure of putting food on the table at the age of 17.

[Abh159]

28 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

I never said or assumed that. 

 

Dude... You said those exact words in multiple posts...

 

3 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

As someone already pointed out in this thread, Pano is now a professional, she has to compete and has no time for developing her game. 

 

1 hour ago, mikedellgolf said:

In other words, she will not have time to develop her games, more like trial by fire.  

[mikedellgolf]

10 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Dude... You said those exact words in multiple posts...

 

 

Dude, did I mention anything about "college" in order for her to develop her game?

[MB19]

4 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

 

I am just going with the facts here.  It is one thing if she is in the top five amateur golfers in the world, like Joaquin Neimann, when he turned pro, it is an entirely different matter when you turn pro as the 64th amateur rank player in the world.  She has a steep hill to climb.  As someone already pointed out in this thread, Pano is now a professional, she has to compete and has no time for developing her game.  She has to compete with the best of the best and the situation is not in her favor.

 

You brought up the #2 AGJA.  That means she is the #2 player in the US, not the whole world.  The #1 USTA tennis player might be the 50th best junior tennis player in the world.  You need to think global, not domestic.

I think part of your problem digesting all this is you are not thinking domestic, and are thinking global.

 

Pano is one of the most celebrated junior golfers to come out of FL in some time, and she is going to get attention for that for years to come.  This means name recognition, and name recognition means sponsors, media attention, book deals and (more) documentaries.  It also means there will be people in the Florida ecosystem who want to invest in her.  She will likely not want for money for years, and be able to focus (if she can) on improvement rather than worrying about how she is going to pay for travel expenses and tournament entry fees.  To think she doesn't have time to develop her game is folly--she has nothing but time to develop her game right now, with no worries about going to class, study hall, mid-terms and final exams.  The situation is absolutely in her favor.

 

Ironic, but even if Pano never develops to her past potential she will still have a degree of fame and name recognition--something the older sister of Allan Kournakova, her old buddy, knows something about.  Pano has an "it" factor right now that she may not have in three or four years if she is just an above-average college golfer.  It is not completely stupid to cash in right now, rather than wait.  A golfer forgoing college to play professionally is newsworthy, buzzworthy, and people talk about it.

 

As evidence, here you are talking about the 64th-ranked FEMALE amateur in the world rather than doing anything else.  Why is that?  Do you want to prove how smart you are?  Do you want to prove yourself right if Pano doesn't turn out to be a successful LPGA golfer within three years?  Is this about moral high ground?  

 

Whatever the case may be, you are talking about Pano rather than talking about Anita Tu--the #1 USTA tennis player, who also happens to be from Florida.  Tu lives about 30 miles from me, but I had never heard of her until just now.  I've been reading about Pano and seeing her on TV for years.

[BloctonGolf11]

4 minutes ago, MB19 said:

I think part of your problem digesting all this is you are not thinking domestic, and are thinking global.

 

Pano is one of the most celebrated junior golfers to come out of FL in some time, and she is going to get attention for that for years to come.  This means name recognition, and name recognition means sponsors, media attention, book deals and (more) documentaries.  It also means there will be people in the Florida ecosystem who want to invest in her.  She will likely not want for money for years, and be able to focus (if she can) on improvement rather than worrying about how she is going to pay for travel expenses and tournament entry fees.  To think she doesn't have time to develop her game is folly--she has nothing but time to develop her game right now, with no worries about going to class, study hall, mid-terms and final exams.  The situation is absolutely in her favor.

 

Ironic, but even if Pano never develops to her past potential she will still have a degree of fame and name recognition--something the older sister of Allan Kournakova, her old buddy, knows something about.  Pano has an "it" factor right now that she may not have in three or four years if she is just an above-average college golfer.  It is not completely stupid to cash in right now, rather than wait.  A golfer forgoing college to play professionally is newsworthy, buzzworthy, and people talk about it.

 

As evidence, here you are talking about the 64th-ranked FEMALE amateur in the world rather than doing anything else.  Why is that?  Do you want to prove how smart you are?  Do you want to prove yourself right if Pano doesn't turn out to be a successful LPGA golfer within three years?  Is this about moral high ground?  

 

Whatever the case may be, you are talking about Pano rather than talking about Anita Tu--the #1 USTA tennis player, who also happens to be from Florida.  Tu lives about 30 miles from me, but I had never heard of her until just now.  I've been reading about Pano and seeing her on TV for years.

I think a lot of what you said is accurate; however, we have to be careful with confirmation bias here as we are involved and plugged into the golf world and specifically the junior golf world. Outside of golf Pano has no name recognition and no celebrity and outside even Junior Golf she is not well known. If you go to a country club and ask people the majority of people will have no idea who she is. This is not a Tiger situation of "Hello World" by any means so I don't think we should overestimate her pull from a marketing standpoint. Just not sure how that "it factor" translates here from a large economic standpoint.

[MB19]

17 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

I think a lot of what you said is accurate; however, we have to be careful with confirmation bias here as we are involved and plugged into the golf world and specifically the junior golf world. Outside of golf Pano has no name recognition and no celebrity and outside even Junior Golf she is not well known. If you go to a country club and ask people the majority of people will have no idea who she is. This is not a Tiger situation of "Hello World" by any means so I don't think we should overestimate her pull from a marketing standpoint. Just not sure how that "it factor" translates here from a large economic standpoint.

You are thinking nationally.  In FL country clubs, and certainly in the professional golf community, Pano is the biggest female name since Lexi.  There will be an interest in not just seeing her succeed, but also promoting her.  You don't think JT has forgotten about the star of his doc, do you?

 

If you are measuring her economic success and promotion on a Tiger scale, of course she wouldn't stack up.  Clearly, that can't be the measure of success for someone jumping to pro (or Nelly, for that matter).  

 

I'm not saying the golf world revolves around FL--not at all.  But Jupiter is the largest planet in the golf solar system, and that's a just a short and life-threatening drive down I-95 away from her dad's house.  Lots of factors in her favor for becoming golf-famous, invested in and monetized. 

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, MB19 said:

You are thinking nationally.  In FL country clubs, and certainly in the professional golf community, Pano is the biggest female name since Lexi.  There will be an interest in not just seeing her succeed, but also promoting her.  You don't think JT has forgotten about the star of his doc, do you?

 

If you are measuring her economic success and promotion on a Tiger scale, of course she wouldn't stack up.  Clearly, that can't be the measure of success for someone jumping to pro (or Nelly, for that matter).  

 

I'm not saying the golf world revolves around FL--not at all.  But Jupiter is the largest planet in the golf solar system, and that's a just a short and life-threatening drive down I-95 away from her dad's house.  Lots of factors in her favor for becoming golf-famous, invested in and monetized. 

Being known in Jupiter, Florida is not something to assume a brand can be built on, which is essentially what you are talking about. Pano is a big deal in Junior Golf circles, at this point that is it. That is an incredibly small community if we are talking economically. I am not besmirching who she is, what she has done, nor what she is capable of but I think claiming she can "cash in" on this now is a big overestimation on what is out there in terms of sponsorship etc.

[Bizzle80]

There is a great article on The Ringer today about how NFL bound college players are changing the process up by leaving college early and working with specialized coaches to really get themselves ready for the NFL. This 'learn by playing in college' thing is basically done with for the top football players...and I would imagine we see that across collegiate sports as well.

 

The argument is why beat yourself up physically, waste time being focused on game planning against Whoever U, wasting time going to class, when you could be focused on actually developing all your skills for when you get paid. I think the same thing applies to Pano or any other players who have no interest in school...but know they are going pro.

 

Start now, work with top level trainers and coaches with no other distractions. 

 

I also don't agree that college women's golfers are better than Epson tour. Look at the Epson list and there are a bunch of the top recent NCAA women in there grinding against each other. Epson are the best of the rest and most of the top college girls graduating are heading there next.

[mikedellgolf]

59 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Ironic, but even if Pano never develops to her past potential she will still have a degree of fame and name recognition--something the older sister of Allan Kournakova, her old buddy, knows something about.  Pano has an "it" factor right now that she may not have in three or four years if she is just an above-average college golfer.  It is not completely stupid to cash in right now, rather than wait.  A golfer forgoing college to play professionally is newsworthy, buzzworthy, and people talk about it.

 

As evidence, here you are talking about the 64th-ranked FEMALE amateur in the world rather than doing anything else.  Why is that?  Do you want to prove how smart you are?  Do you want to prove yourself right if Pano doesn't turn out to be a successful LPGA golfer within three years?  Is this about moral high ground? 

 

I am not trying to prove anything.  Let make one point clear, Pano is NO Anna Kournakova.  Kournakova was a top 10th tennis player on the WTA tour and she also won a tennis grand slam in double.  Pano is nowhere near that, not yet.

 

I do, however, agree without that Pano has the "it" factor at the moment, and I hope she can cash in on it, while it lasts. 

[MB19]

22 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Being known in Jupiter, Florida is not something to assume a brand can be built on, which is essentially what you are talking about. Pano is a big deal in Junior Golf circles, at this point that is it. That is an incredibly small community if we are talking economically. I am not besmirching who she is, what she has done, nor what she is capable of but I think claiming she can "cash in" on this now is a big overestimation on what is out there in terms of sponsorship etc.

Regarding Jupiter—it is an incredible advantage to be on a first-name basis with some of the best and most influential people in golf, being in her position as a decorated amateur turning pro.  She had the ability to get face time/advice/instruction/introductions like few others would be able to as an amateur.  I’m not sure why this advantage in networking is difficult to accept. 

 

 

[MB19]

1 minute ago, mikedellgolf said:

 

I am not trying to prove anything.  Let make one point clear, Pano is NO Anna Kournakova.  Kournakova was a top 10th tennis player on the WTA tour and she also won a tennis grand slam in double.  Pano is nowhere near that, not yet.

 

I do, however, agree without that Pano has the "it" factor at the moment, and I hope she can cash in on it, while it lasts. 

AK became a very good player because she was able to concentrate on tennis exclusive from a very young age.  Wie is really the only golf comp I can think of who was as golf competitive as that, as a young teen.

 

Note I never said Pano and AK were the same level of athletic talent.  If so wanted to write that, I would have.

[tiger1873]

 

 

2 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Regarding Jupiter—it is an incredible advantage to be on a first-name basis with some of the best and most influential people in golf, being in her position as a decorated amateur turning pro.  She had the ability to get face time/advice/instruction/introductions like few others would be able to as an amateur.  I’m not sure why this advantage in networking is difficult to accept. 

 

 

 

Jupiter isn't the center or really that different then any other place where a few pro golfers live.   The PGA headquarters would have never moved to Frisco Texas if the area was that powerful.

 

I don't think anyone here can talk for what makes sense for Pano.   The only thing she really turned down was a college scholarship by going pro.   At the most that is worth 70k a year. So she basically turned down $280K at a private school (public school would be substantially less).    Yes nothing to just walk away from but certainly not life changing amount either.  

[BloctonGolf11]

8 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Regarding Jupiter—it is an incredible advantage to be on a first-name basis with some of the best and most influential people in golf, being in her position as a decorated amateur turning pro.  She had the ability to get face time/advice/instruction/introductions like few others would be able to as an amateur.  I’m not sure why this advantage in networking is difficult to accept. 

 

 

Networking in Jupiter, FL again is not a basis for massive endorsements that are already incredibly rare in women's golf. You talk about "cashing in", there is not that much cash to be cashed in when it comes to women's golf in the first place and Pano is by no means a household name outside of the Junior Golf world and the isolated microcosm you bring up. 

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

 

Jupiter isn't the center or really that different then any other place where a few pro golfers live.   The PGA headquarters would have never moved to Frisco Texas if the area was that powerful.

 

I don't think anyone here can talk for what makes sense for Pano.   The only thing she really turned down was a college scholarship by going pro.   At the most that is worth 70k a year. So she basically turned down $280K at a private school (public school would be substantially less).    Yes nothing to just walk away from but certainly not life changing amount either.  

Look up lifetime earnings from a top level university and we are talking way more than 280K Tiger. Also you are ignoring the elephant in the room: What money could Pano have made off NIL tied to a program like USC for example? 

[heavy_hitter]

5 minutes ago, MB19 said:

AK became a very good player because she was able to concentrate on tennis exclusive from a very young age.  Wie is really the only golf comp I can think of who was as golf competitive as that, as a young teen.

 

Note I never said Pano and AK were the same level of athletic talent.  If so wanted to write that, I would have.

Nelly Korda was a Pro playing junior golf.  It hasn't taken her long at all on the LPGA to make a splash.

 

Pano's have burnt a ton of bridges in South Florida.  Has been kicked out of a couple of clubs and shunned by a coach for not paying.  I am not sure her connections are as good as you think.  Would think people would be very cautious to get caught up with them because there is a lot of baggage there.

[tiger1873]

Just now, BloctonGolf11 said:

Look up lifetime earnings from a top level university and we are talking way more than 280K Tiger. Also you are ignoring the elephant in the room: What money could Pano have made off NIL tied to a program like USC for example? 

 

She can always go to school on her own dime in a few years.   So assume if she needed school for earnings she would go and just pay for it.   If she does well pro she make probably well over 10 million.

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

She can always go to school on her own dime in a few years.   So assume if she needed school for earnings she would go and just pay for it.   If she does well pro she make probably well over 10 million.

Nelly is just now over $10,000,000, Lexi has earned just barely over $10,000,000 and those are generational players from a standpoint of skill and endorsements respectively so you are talking about high bars to reach that kind of money Tiger. 

 

Going to school vs having elite schools roll out the red carpet for you are two very different things Tiger and again the NIL market right now coupled with an elite school is the wild wild west and she could of made a ton of money, get a free education, and sharpen her golf skills against elite talent and then gone pro. Going pro vs playing in college is only mutually exclusive in one direction. Now her endorsement money is entirely tied to her as a brand. Different prospects there. 

[MB19]

17 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Networking in Jupiter, FL again is not a basis for massive endorsements that are already incredibly rare in women's golf. You talk about "cashing in", there is not that much cash to be cashed in when it comes to women's golf in the first place and Pano is by no means a household name outside of the Junior Golf world and the isolated microcosm you bring up. 

Nobody knew who Danica Patrick was until she was shoved down our throats on Go-Daddy commercials.  She is was never a champion professionally, probably wasn’t considered a top-100 racer for her time if you looked all of F1, Indy/Kart, NASCAR, Moro GP and Rally.  Did she go to college?  Is she rich? Is she famous?  Has she lead an interesting existence?

 

Let me know.

[mikedellgolf]

12 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Nelly is just now over $10,000,000, Lexi has earned just barely over $10,000,000 and those are generational players from a standpoint of skill and endorsements respectively so you are talking about high bars to reach that kind of money Tiger. 

 

Going to school vs having elite schools roll out the red carpet for you are two very different things Tiger and again the NIL market right now coupled with an elite school is the wild wild west and she could of made a ton of money, get a free education, and sharpen her golf skills against elite talent and then gone pro. Going pro vs playing in college is only mutually exclusive in one direction. Now her endorsement money is entirely tied to her as a brand. Different prospects there. 

 

If I were her financial advisor, I would advise her to go to either Stanford, USC or UCLA for a couple of  years.  She has the "it" factor and with the NIL, she could rake in a lot of money with it.  It will also set her career after her playing days are over, a lot of money in the Silicon Valley and Hollywood and she could do very well with her connections by attending Stanford, USC or UCLA. Do not underestimate the power of the school alumni, she will have a school alumni pay for her professional golf experience for as long as she is on the tour.

 

Of course, there is no guarantee in life but this path is almost a sure thing.

Edited April 28, 2022 by mikedellgolf

[MB19]

18 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Nelly Korda was a Pro playing junior golf.  It hasn't taken her long at all on the LPGA to make a splash.

 

Pano's have burnt a ton of bridges in South Florida.  Has been kicked out of a couple of clubs and shunned by a coach for not paying.  I am not sure her connections are as good as you think.  Would think people would be very cautious to get caught up with them because there is a lot of baggage there.

This isn’t an unfamiliar tale to me.  35-40 years ago, there was another who had a similar path complete with domineering parents and benefactors who were not always satisfied.  I put a lot of faith in there being plenty of monied SFL people wanting to feel like they are a part of the future success of Pano for the sake of their own vanity.

[MB19]

4 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

 

If I were her financial advisor, I would advise her to go to either Stanford, USC or UCLA for a couple of  years.  She has the "it" factor and with the NIL, she could rake in a lot of money with it.  It will also set her career after her playing days are over, a lot of money in the Silicon Valley and Hollywood and she could do very well with her connections by attending Stanford, USC or UCLA. Do not underestimate the power of the school alumni, she will have a school alumni pay for her professional golf experience for as long as she is on the tour.

 

Of course, there is no guarantee in life but this path is almost a sure thing.

You assume she had the grades and test scores to get into these schools.  Does Stanford no longer require acceptance before handing out scholarships?  

[heavy_hitter]

13 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

   If she does well pro she make probably well over 10 million.

????

 

You are talking about the odds of winning the lottery.  The average LPGA income from golf is $141,000.00 a year.  Maybe the top 20 are getting endorsement deals.  The college tuition and NIL deals for Pano would have been well worth the trip to college.

[heavy_hitter]

8 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Nobody knew who Danica Patrick was until she was shoved down our throats on Go-Daddy commercials.  She is was never a champion professionally, probably wasn’t considered a top-100 racer for her time if you looked all of F1, Indy/Kart, NASCAR, Moro GP and Rally.  Did she go to college?  Is she rich? Is she famous?  Has she lead an interesting existence?

 

Let me know.

 

Danica had sex appeal.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, MB19 said:

You assume she had the grades and test scores to get into these schools.  Does Stanford no longer require acceptance before handing out scholarships?  

 

I do agree with this.  Personally feel this is the real decision making in going pro.  That along with college coaches not wanting to deal with her dad.

[mikedellgolf]

2 minutes ago, MB19 said:

You assume she had the grades and test scores to get into these schools.  Does Stanford no longer require acceptance before handing out scholarships?  

Do you realize that a lot of football players at Stanford are on NCAA prop 48 (or whatever they are calling now)?

 

If Christian Mccaffrey could attend Stanford, I am sure Alexa Pano could.  The standard is even lower at USC and UCLA. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, mikedellgolf said:

Do you realize that a lot of football players at Stanford are on NCAA prop 48 (or whatever they are calling now)?

 

If Christian Mccaffrey could attend Stanford, I am sure Alexa Pano could.  The standard is even lower at USC and UCLA. 

There is a big difference in Foolsball and Golf.

[mikedellgolf]

Just now, heavy_hitter said:

There is a big difference in Foolsball and Golf.

I don't think so.  If the coach wants you bad enough, he can make it happen.  I am speculating that the coach probably didn't want to deal with her father.