The corrosive effect of “gimmies”

[Yuck]

We have all seen this before.  Have a tournament, and a substantial number of players (sans sandbaggers) shoot substantially higher than normal.

People say it is pressure or choking, but I think the way they play casual golf is a big contributor.  

 

Gimmies are fine for match play within a single foursome or less.  Both competitors / teams agree the hole is over and move on.  The problems come when gimmies make there way into stroke play games with multiple foursomes.  I have seen players give breaking 3 footers to themselves, or short putts missed, followed by the exclamation, “oh, that was a gimmie”.  This along with rolling the ball over, and mulligans or playing OB or lost ball as a lateral hazard all combine to create artificially low scores.  Those folks shooting 3-5 shots worse in competitions may not be choking at all,  Just the reality of what they shoot when playing be the rules.  If a putt is really “good” because it would be made 100% of the time, instantly tapping it in takes no longer than begging for a gimmie.   What really takes the cake, is when someone wants you to give a putt, you don’t, they miss and then blame you for their losing the hole.

 

Rant over.

[Mudguard]

It bugs me a bit, our club has tried pretty hard to stamp it out of the Saturday comps. But again, unless someone says something, like, oh it's a comp today, we have to finish out, then people don't change.

We have a similar issue with a short par four that has water right. You can hit driver straight at the green to knock it on, but it carries water the whole way. Same with anyone who lays up and cuts it. Most of the time you have to re-tee as a strong cut won't cross any land. Yet the number of times folks will walk 150m up the fairway and drop 100m out and go, oh it crossed about here?

I got the silent treatment once for making someone re-tee. 

[TwistedSister]

4 minutes ago, Yuck said:

We have all seen this before.  Have a tournament, and a substantial number of players (sans sandbaggers) shoot substantially higher than normal.

People say it is pressure or choking, but I think the way they play casual golf is a big contributor.  

 

Gimmies are fine for match play within a single foursome or less.  Both competitors / teams agree the hole is over and move on.  The problems come when gimmies make there way into stroke play games with multiple foursomes.  I have seen players give breaking 3 footers to themselves, or short putts missed, followed by the exclamation, “oh, that was a gimmie”.  This along with rolling the ball over, and mulligans or playing OB or lost ball as a lateral hazard all combine to create artificially low scores.  Those folks shooting 3-5 shots worse in competitions may not be choking at all,  Just the reality of what they shoot when playing be the rules.  If a putt is really “good” because it would be made 100% of the time, instantly tapping it in takes no longer than begging for a gimmie.   What really takes the cake, is when someone wants you to give a putt, you don’t, they miss and then blame you for their losing the hole.

 

Rant over.

The only ones they hurt when this "corrosion" takes place is them?

[Abh159]

15 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

The only ones they hurt when this "corrosion" takes place is them?

 

I was about to say the same thing. We don't do "gimmes" in our groups, but I couldn't care less what other people do.

 

If they want to cost themselves valuable strokes once they get into a handicapped event then more power to them 🤣!

[Yuck]

19 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

The only ones they hurt when this "corrosion" takes place is them?

In a multi group game, a “gimmie”  may determine a skin or side bet.  So it is an annoyance paying a small bet to someone who was loose with the rules and not in your group,

[Pepperturbo]

During casual play I often take -2' putts, it speeds pace.  If playing in a tournament, I got no problem putting out.  During $$$ games or match play I been known to give 3' putts early out, to get my opponent lazy/comfortable, then around 14, no more gimmies. 😛

 

[amace04]

I don't give gimmies and don't take em, but I don't care if my playing partner helps themselves.  We don't take it that seriously.

 

Sometimes one in particular will mention it when I don't give it, and I tell them "I'm not worried about your putt, if you think you should get it, take it".

 

Groups worried about gimmies tend to really get too generous with gimmies, which I definitely don't like.  I was given a 5'er once, which I definitely didn't take.

[TwistedSister]

1 hour ago, Yuck said:

In a multi group game, a “gimmie”  may determine a skin or side bet.  So it is an annoyance paying a small bet to someone who was loose with the rules and not in your group,

Who would give a putt when it is for birdie or better? That being said our gimmes are for PAr or worse or are "on the lip".

Edited April 13, 2022 by dhacker56

[jordan2240]

I don't understand why anyone who keeps score in stroke play would take gimmies.  Hard to know what your score really was if you didn't hole the ball on each green.  And the two best sounds in golf are a flushed shot and the ball dropping into the cup.  But pretty much everyone I play with wants gimmies, and since we only play recreationally, it doesn't matter.  But as the OP said, the time it takes to ask for a gimmie can take longer than just walking up and holing the putt.

 

Not gimmie related, but a funny story (I think) about loose scoring - was playing with two buddies, and the one whacks the ball straight left into the woods off the tee.  Retees and does the same with the next one.  Retees and sends the third into the high brush right in front of the tee.  Retees and finishes out the hole (can't recall if he took a gimmie).  Other buddy asks him for a score, and he says "I'll take a 7".  We just smirked at each other and moved on.

[oikos1]

I thought the only way you can "give" or "get" gimmies is in match play.  If you are playing by handicap rules in stroke play, don't you have to putt out until reaching net double bogey?

Edited April 14, 2022 by oikos1

[LeoLeo99]

My usual groups are very generous with the gimmes.  I played a money match with some new guys last week and they didn't give anything.  I mean not even 6 inches and I almost missed one that short on 18.  

[Imp]

If they're that easy, just put it in the hole...

[mshills]

There are plenty of reasons my game corrodes (?) -- failing to hole out is not one of them.  I don't really care what anyone else does, but in stroke play I hole out 18 times.  I'm not a jerk about it -- if someone goes to give me a putt or knock one back to me I'll stop them and say something like "I've missed these before and need to putt them out, thanks though!" 

 

You don't need to go all James Bond and say "we ARE playing by the strict rules of golf, Goldfinger."

 

Threads like this are funny.  If you want to hole out, hole out, and you can be direct about it without being difficult!

[fairways4life]

My favorite is when I get paired up with a stranger and on the first hole I lag one up to 2 feet and he kicks it back to me and says "That's good by me."

 

Well, we aren't playing a match or anything, so what do you mean it's "good by you?" What makes you the gatekeeper of my putts? Lol. 

[2bGood]

I understand the thesis of the OP's argument but....

 

I play allot of stroke play competitive rounds - around 40 a year. And then I a play about 90 competitive match play rounds. Toss in 20 or so fun rounds. So about 110 of my rounds involve conceded putts. Given this you would assume I would have trouble shooting my cap in stroke play events. I don't. I actually skew a little lower than my average score in competition. Not saying I roll in to a stroke play event and dominate it 😏 just saying they line up nearly identical to my match play scores, or about a stroke lower. 

 

Many of the guys I play with are the same way. For what it is worth we do play real match play where putts are not conceded on a whim. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by 2bGood

[Hickory4ever]

9 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I understand the thesis of the OP's argument but....

 

I play allot of stroke play competitive rounds - around 40 a year. And then I a play about 90 competitive match play rounds. Toss in 20 or so fun rounds. So about 110 of my rounds involve conceded putts. Given this you would assume I would have trouble shooting my cap in stroke play events. I don't. I actually skew a little lower than my average score in competition. Not saying I roll in to stroke play event and dominate them 😏 just saying they line u nearly identical to my match play score, or about a stroke lower. 

 

Many of the guys I play with are the same way. For what it is worth we do play real match play where putts are conceded on a whim. 

I share the same sentiments. I predominantly play match play and don’t find conceded putts “corrosive “ to my game. Conceding putts existed as long as golf has been around and is part of the strategy of the game.

 

I do see where the OP is coming from though. Looseness with the rules including gimme putts is more predominant than strict adherence to the rules. So for many, if they keep a “handicap” under those circumstances, they are likely going to suffer the consequences in the event they play in a serious competition. 
 

 

[TourSpoon]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:29 PM, Yuck said:

Gimmies are fine for match play within a single foursome or less.  Both competitors / teams agree the hole is over and move on.  The problems come when gimmies make there way into stroke play games with multiple foursomes.  I have seen players give breaking 3 footers to themselves, or short putts missed, followed by the exclamation, “oh, that was a gimmie”.  This along with rolling the ball over, and mulligans or playing OB or lost ball as a lateral hazard all combine to create artificially low scores.  

Gimmies is one thing, but rolling the ball, mulligans and creative penalty situations are in a new category. 

 

My group is very strict on gimmees during our money games because it gets out of hand over time. If the putt could have money on the line you putt it out. The only time something is given is when you are clearly out of the hole (unless its a red ball must play) and at your ESC. You hit a great drive into a divot, too bad. You hit out of bounds, retee. If you hit it into a palm tree and everyone sees it enter and not come out, retee (this one hurts). I think playing everything down, every time has made me a better golfer and better on how to hit shots with more confidence. 

 

We recently played with a larger group and the guy I played with was a 2 cap. He gave putts like crazy and after a few holes, I saw him rolling his ball on the fairway. I really didn't mind, but man I wish I knew their rules ahead of time. And the putts he gave were subjective like 6 inches, inside the leather, 3 feet, whatever. That is the problem with giving putts, it leads to more interpretive ways. 

 

I don't know one person I have every played golf with that has cherished hitting a perfect drive in the middle of the fairway into a divot. Ever. So some people play no divots and then all of a sudden its just preferred lies, then its preferred lies that got so great the tree is no longer a factor, or the bunker corner is just outside my line of flight. So we play them down. 

[RmoorePE]

I think it can definitely get out of hand. My main money group used to play team (2 man) Stableford exclusively. We never really gave par putts unless they were no brainer tap ins, but would readily give a bogey from 4' if the team mate was already in for the counting score. That became a bad practice for handicap purposes. Some of the guys in the group just love taking a bogey from 4'. I would never take it because I know I'm less than 50% from there, so it would really screw my handicap. But what happens is you get on the team of a player who takes too many putts and their handicap takes them out of the round before it starts.

 

We changed the game to 12's which means that the players who would have been out of the hole Stableford are still playing for the last points. So sometimes a couple players could be playing for points even after they have reached the hole max (ESC). If someone picks up without the other team approving, they automatically take a zero (we had two guys battling it out for quad bogeys on a par 3 the other day). Also, it means that your team mate still has work to do even if you get in with a better score, so no more gimmies because a player's score didn't matter. There was some grumbling with the change but it has been a positive.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:43 AM, fairways4life said:

My favorite is when I get paired up with a stranger and on the first hole I lag one up to 2 feet and he kicks it back to me and says "That's good by me."

 

Well, we aren't playing a match or anything, so what do you mean it's "good by you?" What makes you the gatekeeper of my putts? Lol. 

 

The fun one I get is when we either can't fill our foursome so we get a random single paired with us, or if I'm a single and playing with random people who I don't know, and one of them asks me if their putt is a gimme. 

 

Dude, if I'm not playing you for money, you can take a gimme off the dang tee! I don't give a $^#&! Your scorekeeping is your business.

 

[MtlJeff]

I'd love to see a guy that shoots like 5 over his normal score "only" due to gimmes. How many gimmes does this guy take a round and from how far? Is he taking like 6 foot gimmes 10 times a round?

 

I've never really bought the argument that normal "in the leather" style gimmes cause a massive delta in score. You don't get a 3 footer on every hole, sometimes you might only get 2-3 a round, and statistically you'll probably make most of those in a tournament. I remember in my match play tournament last year i told our club captain i struggled on the greens and it probably was the difference in my loss, he was like "have you been taking gimmes this year"....i was like "yes, but what i meant was i missed a lot of 6-8 footers---what kind of gimmes do you think i'm taking?"

 

People shoot higher scores in tournaments because they are nervous and there is pressure in a game situation. I used to log my field goal attempts at the end of every practice when i was a college kicker (i would finish every practice by taking 30 FG's from various spots between 30-49yds). I averaged >90% for the season. My freshman year i think my in-game FG percentage was ~75% from all distances including chip-shots. It wasn't because of gimmes LOL, i was nervous

[SNIPERBBB]

4 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I'd love to see a guy that shoots like 5 over his normal score "only" due to gimmes. How many gimmes does this guy take a round and from how far? Is he taking like 6 foot gimmes 10 times a round?

 

I've never really bought the argument that normal "in the leather" style gimmes cause a massive delta in score. You don't get a 3 footer on every hole, sometimes you might only get 2-3 a round, and statistically you'll probably make most of those in a tournament. I remember in my match play tournament last year i told our club captain i struggled on the greens and it probably was the difference in my loss, he was like "have you been taking gimmes this year"....i was like "yes, but what i meant was i missed a lot of 6-8 footers---what kind of gimmes do you think i'm taking?"

 

People shoot higher scores in tournaments because they are nervous and there is pressure in a game situation. I used to log my field goal attempts at the end of every practice when i was a college kicker (i would finish every practice by taking 30 FG's from various spots between 30-49yds). I averaged >90% for the season. My freshman year i think my in-game FG percentage was ~75% from all distances including chip-shots. It wasn't because of gimmes LOL, i was nervous

 

 

In the leather is supposed to be the length of the grip, not the distance between the putter head and the grip

[MtlJeff]

5 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

 

 

In the leather is supposed to be the length of the grip, not the distance between the putter head and the grip

 

I just mean it the way a lot of people use gimmes these days, which is like a couple of feet maybe. I'm not saying they "should" or "shouldn't" do it, I'm just saying I don't think it changes scoring all that much

[SNIPERBBB]

Depends on your greens. Flat, slow greens it probably doesn't matter much. Fast and sloped greens can be a bit different 

[596]

I play in a "veggie" game each Friday.  I have no idea why its a "veggie" game, but whatever.  

 

We play that every putt is holed and every ball over bogey is picked up.  It's a points game and max is bogey for 1 point.  BUT we also say you get one club relief, unless you need more!!  We won't play on a root, nothing from a divot, nothing from behind a tree, roll the ball from a crappy lie, etc.  Its all for fun and a whopping 7 bucks on the line.  Every one has a good time and it does  nothing to hurt the "game of golf".  And no, no one should be posting these rounds for a handicap. 

[StudentGolfer4]

Worth noting the handicap system is not designed for you to shoot your handicap very often. 
 

If there’s a player that commonly shoots under their handicap, I would be very suspicious of their cap. It may have changed with the WHS but I believe you are only suppose to shoot your handicap or better 40% of the time. If someone has that info please chime in and correct me. 

[Hickory4ever]

1 hour ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Worth noting the handicap system is not designed for you to shoot your handicap very often. 
 

If there’s a player that commonly shoots under their handicap, I would be very suspicious of their cap. It may have changed with the WHS but I believe you are only suppose to shoot your handicap or better 40% of the time. If someone has that info please chime in and correct me. 

Statistically, you should shoot your handicap or better roughly 20% of the time if your handicap is stable. Your handicap is the average of your best 8 out of the last 20 rounds. 

[Shilgy]

20 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Worth noting the handicap system is not designed for you to shoot your handicap very often. 
 

If there’s a player that commonly shoots under their handicap, I would be very suspicious of their cap. It may have changed with the WHS but I believe you are only suppose to shoot your handicap or better 40% of the time. If someone has that info please chime in and correct me. 

20% and if someone is “regularly beating their handicap” they are either not posting their score at all or not posting accurately.

[HoosierHacker89]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:50 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

 

 

In the leather is supposed to be the length of the grip, not the distance between the putter head and the grip

I've always been told "in the leather" was the putter head to the grip not length of the grip. Interesting how things vary. 

[BIG STU]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:02 PM, Pepperturbo said:

During casual play I often take -2' putts, it speeds pace.  If playing in a tournament, I got no problem putting out.  During $$$ games or match play I been known to give 3' putts early out, to get my opponent lazy/comfortable, then around 14, no more gimmies. 😛

 

Uhuuh I know that old hustler trick myself--- have used it before

[StudentGolfer4]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

20% and if someone is “regularly beating their handicap” they are either not posting their score at all or not posting accurately.

@Hickory4ever thanks for the correction about it being 20%

 

I agree with this, but it always seems like you always find a couple of people who claim “they just play better in tournaments.” Maybe they are the true outliers but whenever someone continually beats their handicap in events I’m skeptical.