Junior Golfer Independence & Ownership

[hangontight]

Seeking suggestions from those who have successfully cut the cord!  I am ready for my 11 YO son  to be more independent when it comes to golf - practice, play, etc.   We both enjoy the time together, but as he gets older and is practicing more I cant be there as much - two other kids, wife, work, etc.  His preference is still that I am there with him every second!   He'll practice SOME on his own, and occasionally will go play with some buddies alone....but when asked what he worked on you get that blank stare.  I've tried giving him a practice schedule for guidance (and having him make his own), but mostly limited success.  We've obviously talked about having a specific purpose for each practice, different kinds of practice, etc.   I know at the end of the day, HE has to WANT it.   Some ideas to help foster that independence:  Will take you and drop you off at course any day you want (within reason and with reasonable heads up), I am available to come practice with you 1 or 2 days a week, will pay for 1 lesson a month, etc.    One challenge is he is there isn't a huge group of kids to play with just standing around.  He has a good group, but still needs to be scheduled & coordinated - which is fine, happy to do that.   

 

 

[Wham49]

4 minutes ago, hangontight said:

Seeking suggestions from those who have successfully cut the cord!  I am ready for my 11 YO son  to be more independent when it comes to golf - practice, play, etc.   We both enjoy the time together, but as he gets older and is practicing more I cant be there as much - two other kids, wife, work, etc.  His preference is still that I am there with him every second!   He'll practice SOME on his own, and occasionally will go play with some buddies alone....but when asked what he worked on you get that blank stare.  I've tried giving him a practice schedule for guidance (and having him make his own), but mostly limited success.  We've obviously talked about having a specific purpose for each practice, different kinds of practice, etc.   I know at the end of the day, HE has to WANT it.   Some ideas to help foster that independence:  Will take you and drop you off at course any day you want (within reason and with reasonable heads up), I am available to come practice with you 1 or 2 days a week, will pay for 1 lesson a month, etc.    One challenge is he is there isn't a huge group of kids to play with just standing around.  He has a good group, but still needs to be scheduled & coordinated - which is fine, happy to do that.   

 

 

I hear ya man, my daughter turned 12 last week and is the same way, if I'm not there leading the way and correcting her swing she gets no where I was hoping just to be a driver at this point, seems like she wants no real ownership of her game. I provide one paid lesson every 2 weeks and availability to practice twice a week before her league and tournaments starts, It is still cold out where I live still, I understand the weather, , but I have to push to get her to work. I am frustrated, have to remind myself that she is 12 still. 

[phillyspecial]

Great topic, was going to post something similar.  My son just turning 10 and while he loves to play and go to academy w his friends, I have had a very hard time getting him to practice independently without pushing hard which I despise doing and know it will only backfire.  

 

On IG, all the top 10 yr olds are grinding w a smile every day! How do they do it??!!

[hangontight]

another note....I think having a good group of friends to play with is important.  iron sharpens iron kind of thing and they push each other to be better without even knowing it!  However, I've seen it go both ways - some of his buddies they always seem to play well together....others ,without fail, are having a highest flop shot contest by the second tee that last the whole round.....200 extra flop shot swings on the day....great for the swing 😆

[RmoorePE]

I have invented a 5 step process to get 11 and 12 year old's to practice, this can be done in under 30 minutes, Power Point and a projector helps:

 

1- Competition - Find the names of the kids in his upcoming tournaments and create a bullet list, behind each of their names list how hard they work, stuff like: they spend 4 hours a day on their golf game (1 hour putting, 1 hour chipping, 1 hour hitting from 100 yards and in then play a full round), only interrupted by school, high intensity weight lifting, a perfectly balanced diet, goal setting meetings and visualization sessions. Tell him "If you only put in half the effort of Johnny Redfigures, you would be a scratch by summer break."

 

2 - Subliminal messaging - Play "Chariots of Fire" as background music. Show lots of pictures or GIFS of Tiger, Spieth, Morikawa with the word "GRINDER", superimposed over them. Change the music to that sad song they play on ASPCA commercials and then show pictures of homeless people and begging refugees with "SKIPPED PRACTICE" superimposed over them. 

 

3- Superliminal messaging - 1 minute of yelling where you chant "WHO'S GOING TO PUTT TODAY!?" and he responds "NO THREE PUTTS!". Take a minute break then you chant "POSTURE" he chants "GRIP!", you chant "ALIGNMENT" and he screams "RIP!" For one more minute.

 

4- Passive Aggressive /Martyr - I like to pull out a couple of eyelashes to start some fake tears, but some people keep a tee in their pocket and poke their thigh to generate tears. Give him a speech about "how I only wish I had this opportunity when I was a kid". How you work 22 hours a day, to put food on the table and pay for the CC membership for him to practice, but he doesn't love you enough to even try. End this portion of the speech with "I don't need thanks, you can thank me by showing your commitment to the program."

 

Close your speech, dispassionately letting him know that his unwillingness to practice more is "basically ruining your life, and making me love your siblings more than you."

 

Be on the look out for my ebook.

 

 

[jj9000]

44 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

I have invented a 5 step process to get 11 and 12 year old's to practice, this can be done in under 30 minutes, Power Point and a projector helps:

 

[wildcatden]

2 hours ago, hangontight said:

Seeking suggestions from those who have successfully cut the cord!  I am ready for my 11 YO son  to be more independent when it comes to golf - practice, play, etc.   We both enjoy the time together, but as he gets older and is practicing more I cant be there as much - two other kids, wife, work, etc.  His preference is still that I am there with him every second!   He'll practice SOME on his own, and occasionally will go play with some buddies alone....but when asked what he worked on you get that blank stare.  I've tried giving him a practice schedule for guidance (and having him make his own), but mostly limited success.  We've obviously talked about having a specific purpose for each practice, different kinds of practice, etc.   I know at the end of the day, HE has to WANT it.   Some ideas to help foster that independence:  Will take you and drop you off at course any day you want (within reason and with reasonable heads up), I am available to come practice with you 1 or 2 days a week, will pay for 1 lesson a month, etc.    One challenge is he is there isn't a huge group of kids to play with just standing around.  He has a good group, but still needs to be scheduled & coordinated - which is fine, happy to do that.   

 

 

 

With my 11YO, it's not that he doesn't want to practice, but getting him to practice effectively without assistance can be trouble.  Some of this I attribute to maturity.  Many times they just don't make the connection between practice (or workouts) and improvement. 

 

For example, my kid has been attending an instructor led golf centered workout class.  He has seen great improvements in his swing and distance. On a periodic basis, they do measurements in the class and he is behind on chest strength as a leading indicator to getting even more driver distance.  So him knowing this, can I get him to do 15 push-ups a day (or every other day) on his own?  (Hint: no).

 

 

[Medson]

2 hours ago, wildcatden said:

So him knowing this, can I get him to do 15 push-ups a day (or every other day) on his own?  (Hint: no).

Kids tend to emulate parents' behavior. The best way is to do 15 push ups with him everyday. Especially when you are also tired and you don't have it in you, it is a great teachable moment. 

[heavy_hitter]

Don't expect them to practice on their own at 10,11,12,13....

 

I would handle it like this.

 

When you are with them, put them through a practice.

 

When they are without you, tell them to spend 30 minutes warming up and go play 9/18 with their buddies.  The best practice they can get is on the course figuring things out on their own.

[Golfingdawg19]

My daughter is 14 and she wants to be independent so I have let her do her own thing. The main issue that I see is that there isn't always a focus to her practice. She hits balls for awhile, then chips, and putts. That is great for a warm up but there needs to be specific things to work on at each area. I would get with your child's coach and come up with a practice plan. Have the coach walk your child through what they should be doing as they practice. This way they know what is supposed to happen when they practice. Then be out there to supervise but sit back and let them do their own thing. Then when tournament time comes see what the results are. If they are good, carry on with what you are doing. If not, you may need to reassess things. All i do know is set up stations for her on the putting green and chipping green. I don't mess with her while she is doing anything.

[tiger1873]

 

Everyone says the same thing but if you want your kid to be independent you need to start with being a good spectator of your kids.  

 

Everyone says the same thing but almost no one is very good at staying calm and not getting angry when your kid makes a stupid mistake in a tournament.    Anyone who says they never get mad during a tournament or never has is a liar.

 

Learning how to control your emotions during a tournment and standing back to let them play is the most essential thing for independence.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by tiger1873

[cubuffs]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Don't expect them to practice on their own at 10,11,12,13....

 

I would handle it like this.

 

When you are with them, put them through a practice.

 

When they are without you, tell them to spend 30 minutes warming up and go play 9/18 with their buddies.  The best practice they can get is on the course figuring things out on their own.

 

I can't Like/Reiterate this enough.  Some of the expectations that the OP has for their 11YO are things I have for my 17YO and there is still room for growth...

 

What Heavy lays out above is both realistic and a great way for them to develop this over time on their own.

[Wham49]

37 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Everyone says the same thing but if you want your kid to be independent you need to start with being a good spectator of your kids.  

 

Everyone says the same thing but almost no one is very good at staying calm and not getting angry when your kid makes a stupid mistake in a tournament.    Anyone who says they never get mad during a tournament or never has is a liar.

 

Learning how to control your emotions during a tournment and standing back to let them play is the most essential thing for independence.

 

 

 

 

thats me in a nutshell, I stay calm until she launches a chip shot over the green and blows the hole, hard not to be invested in that stuff cause you see all the work and instruction just go right out the window

[BloctonGolf11]

43 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Everyone says the same thing but if you want your kid to be independent you need to start with being a good spectator of your kids.  

 

Everyone says the same thing but almost no one is very good at staying calm and not getting angry when your kid makes a stupid mistake in a tournament.    Anyone who says they never get mad during a tournament or never has is a liar.

 

Learning how to control your emotions during a tournment and standing back to let them play is the most essential thing for independence.

 

 

 

 

Tiger is absolutely right here. (See, I can agree with him from time to time). The sooner you learn to keep that big distance between you and them the sooner they will take their own ownership. Walk 50 yards ahead or behind and try to keep yourself calm. I suck at it and it has taken a long time for me to get good at keeping a poker face but it has helped immensely. Keep the commentary and coaching to practice rounds and even then try to back away and ask questions so they can start to formulate their own answers. 

[hangontight]

1 hour ago, cubuffs said:

 

I can't Like/Reiterate this enough.  Some of the expectations that the OP has for their 11YO are things I have for my 17YO and there is still room for growth...

 

What Heavy lays out above is both realistic and a great way for them to develop this over time on their own.

@cubuffsIt seems you have misinterpreted my post.. there are no expectations...I was seeking advice on how to distance myself and let him do things on his own and be more independent (reread that HE is the one who wants me there all the time).   Since you have a 17 year old, you must of been through the same thing at some point to help him/her learn and grow , so I would love to hear your experience/advice if it actually adds value to the conversation.   And I agree with Heavy's post, concise and good content that is helpful for everyone reading.  

Edited May 4, 2022 by hangontight

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

23 hours ago, hangontight said:

Seeking suggestions from those who have successfully cut the cord!  I am ready for my 11 YO son  to be more independent when it comes to golf - practice, play, etc.   We both enjoy the time together, but as he gets older and is practicing more I cant be there as much - two other kids, wife, work, etc.  His preference is still that I am there with him every second!   He'll practice SOME on his own, and occasionally will go play with some buddies alone....but when asked what he worked on you get that blank stare.  I've tried giving him a practice schedule for guidance (and having him make his own), but mostly limited success.  We've obviously talked about having a specific purpose for each practice, different kinds of practice, etc.   I know at the end of the day, HE has to WANT it.   Some ideas to help foster that independence:  Will take you and drop you off at course any day you want (within reason and with reasonable heads up), I am available to come practice with you 1 or 2 days a week, will pay for 1 lesson a month, etc.    One challenge is he is there isn't a huge group of kids to play with just standing around.  He has a good group, but still needs to be scheduled & coordinated - which is fine, happy to do that.   

 

 

My disrespect intended in my post .

 

I think it will always depend on the child and their maturity level.  You said other children, so you know there is something to the birth order.

 

My golfing son is a middle child.  He was always the sporty as well.  He got into golf late and really didn't have friends in the sport other than during HS.

His summer prior to 9th grade until sophomore summer.  We were at the range and course constantly.  I was looking back at pictures and thinking "Wow those were good times."

 

So in short, yes its cool to be independent.  It will happen in time and then you might want it back. 😉

[Medson]

44 minutes ago, hangontight said:

I was seeking advice on how to distance myself and let him do things on his own and be more independent (reread that HE is the one who wants me there all the time). 

Why does he want you to be there? What specifics can you provide while you are with him at the practice? 
 

It might be easier to answer the questions once you know the specifics. 

[Bizzle80]

I've always just told my daughter that if she wants to be good at anything in life - not just golf - she needs to be self motivated. I let her know I will always take her or assist her but whatever she chooses to do she needs to work and practice to be good at it. These lessons from a young age have helped a lot. She's only 9, but once she decided a few months ago she wanted to be 'top 20 in the world championships' I asked her what she would do to get there. She listed out what she thought was the path: practice a little every day, more lessons with her coach, visualization... and now all I have to do is remind her of HER chosen goal and schedule.

 

Her coach gives her things to focus on and now she is off practicing in the garage sim on her own (she gets to listen to music playlists or thrown on tv shows while she's in there so that helps)...I had to make her stop the other night after 150 balls of surprisingly focused practice. Cant have her overdoing it!

 

Basically I think its letting the kids set their own goal, determine their path to achieving and then just reminding them of their choice. If they don't want it, I'm not sure there is anything you can do to push...except for a speech like @RmoorePE

Edited May 4, 2022 by Bizzle80

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Tiger is absolutely right here. (See, I can agree with him from time to time). The sooner you learn to keep that big distance between you and them the sooner they will take their own ownership. Walk 50 yards ahead or behind and try to keep yourself calm. I suck at it and it has taken a long time for me to get good at keeping a poker face but it has helped immensely. Keep the commentary and coaching to practice rounds and even then try to back away and ask questions so they can start to formulate their own answers. 

Jokes on you, I never get mad at his tournaments anymore. It’s a one step plan for anyone out there that you can implement today. Have mom take them. 

[kcap]

My son is 15.. he practices on this own, plays with friends, plays with members, plays alone.. but when he knows I can be around, he wants me there.  And he wants me engaged.  So not being on phone while he is hitting shots!  I do not mind it, i love it, been part of his journey since a kid.  He is motivated but enjoys me being around.   Frankly - it is the only time he enjoys having me around 🙂

 

I would just enjoy it and not read to much into it.  It is hard to practice on your own (ironic that my son does the drills in 50% of the time on his own when compared with me), golf is a lonely sport.  Being with someone during practice is probably just more enjoyable for your son.

 

 

 

 

[cubuffs]

On 5/4/2022 at 1:01 PM, hangontight said:

@cubuffsIt seems you have misinterpreted my post.. there are no expectations...I was seeking advice on how to distance myself and let him do things on his own and be more independent (reread that HE is the one who wants me there all the time).   Since you have a 17 year old, you must of been through the same thing at some point to help him/her learn and grow , so I would love to hear your experience/advice if it actually adds value to the conversation.   And I agree with Heavy's post, concise and good content that is helpful for everyone reading.  

 

Apologies, no disrespect was intended, was just saying that I believe independence is more of 14 and on up development (of course depending on the maturity of the individual).

 

One thing I always tried to do was to try and gamify practice as much as I could (i.e how many holes can you go without 3 putting, what is the record and can you beat it...).  It has only been since entering high school where we have been more structured in our practice plans (purpose for doing an activity, formal and structured drills, he building the plan by himself and asking for feedback). 

[Wham49]

On 5/4/2022 at 2:57 PM, leezer99 said:

Jokes on you, I never get mad at his tournaments anymore. It’s a one step plan for anyone out there that you can implement today. Have mom take them. 

are you kidding me, my wife would start screaming at her the minute she looks disappointed in a shot, I go because there would be a brawl on the course if my wife goes

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, Wham49 said:

are you kidding me, my wife would start screaming at her the minute she looks disappointed in a shot, I go because there would be a brawl on the course if my wife goes

My Wife:  "Great Shot"... 👏👏👏 as the ball rolls through the fairway and into water.

Edited May 6, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[SE Gamer]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:10 PM, hangontight said:

another note....I think having a good group of friends to play with is important.  iron sharpens iron kind of thing and they push each other to be better without even knowing it!  However, I've seen it go both ways - some of his buddies they always seem to play well together....others ,without fail, are having a highest flop shot contest by the second tee that last the whole round.....200 extra flop shot swings on the day....great for the swing 😆

 

Agreed that the group of friends can make a big difference. It's also important to remember that at the OP's daughter's age, they're still young. And of all the players at that age, very few will have any competitive success. And for those that do succeed, they have to want it themselves. And one way to grow their desire is to let them have fun. Growing up I knew plenty of kids who's parents pushed them, only to grow to hate the game.

 

So I say, let them hit flop shots! They'll also find themselves doing closest to the pins, putting contests, long drive, etc. And there are things you learn about your own swing doing those sorts of things.

 

My buddies and I basically lived on the golf course most summers. And there was plenty of "goofing off" that most boomers would be shaking their heads at. But we all developed into some solid players. Who could beat just about anyone else that was on the course at any given time. 

[SE Gamer]

OP - As a follow-up to my earlier post about the benefits of getting in with a good group of friends. With summer coming up, check your local courses for junior leagues. Great way to help them get to know some other kids who share in a common interest. And also gives them some light experience with competition. 

 

I was far better friends with my summer golf league partners (all from other schools) than I was with any actual classmates. Junior golf was arguably the best thing from my childhood.

 

 

[MikekiM]

Finally let my kid play a 2-day event without me watching.  It was the most glorious 9hrs off I think I've ever had. Amazing how many errands you can get done while he's out playing in those slow tournament rounds.

 

I'm sure this is way better for my health.

 

 

 

[Goldenhawk]

With the four boys, I have never lined up or read a green.  As a result, they learned to putt on their own and have become very good putters.  When they were younger, I thought them that I didn’t care how many shots it took to reach the green, but once your on, you are only allowed two putts.

 

Since the youngest of the boys is 14, they go out and play tournaments, practice on their own, practice and  play rounds with their brothers and their friends.  Been like that for 3 or so years now.  I learned from the oldest that the kids need to be as self sufficient as possible once they play golf in high school.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Goldenhawk

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

13 hours ago, Goldenhawk said:

With the four boys, I have never lined up or read a green.  As a result, they learned to putt on their own and have become very good putters.  When they were younger, I thought them that I didn’t care how many shots it took to reach the green, but once your on, you are only allowed two putts.

 

Since the youngest of the boys is 14, they go out and play tournaments, practice on their own, practice and  play rounds with their brothers and their friends.  Been like that for 3 or so years now.  I learned from the oldest that the kids need to be as self sufficient as possible once they play golf in high school.

They can learn alot about being self sufficient in golf.  I think its where some of it starts. 

 

I love team sports.  All of my kids have played them and my oldest is still trying out for a Pro team.

 

I feel this  makes you really depend on yourself in golf.  If you need mom and dad all the time even into high school.   You have bigger issues that whether you can get recruited.

 

Golf has helped my daughter along with other things and times in life.

 

I had to drop off a car and then got stuck in a rain storm.  I called my daughter for a ride and she waited for the storm to pass.  I noticed it was taking longer than it should but figured I was worrying for nothing.

 

She finally arrived.  Hair was wet and said "Guess what?  I had someone crash into me driving here"  I was like wow you ok.  She explained how they pulled over and she got his insurance and everything like we discuss.

 

She handled it just a bad hole or two on a golf course or a bad day at school.  She wasn't calling Dad freaking out on what to do.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by TripleBogeysrbetter

[wegobomber31]

My take on this from coaching other sports and being around a lot of junior golfers is there are two types of kids: kids that you have to drag to practice and kids that you have to drag from practice.  In my opinion they either have it or they don't.  And even if they don't have that burning desire to practice, they can still be really good and get life long enjoyment out of the game.  Nearly all will fall short of the lofty goals and dreams that they or their parents have for them.  And that's okay too. The journey is its own reward.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

If you have to constantly drag them to practice.  You won't be dragging long.  You or Mom will be exhausted and golf will die out.

 

My daughter hates to practice.  If she signs up tournaments or HS (which is coming soon)  she will start to bust her butt about 2 weeks beforehand to get in shape.  I don't have to say a word.