Ball moved, who replaces

[Mr. Bean]

13 minutes ago, jimbo123 said:

 

Don't follow, sorry.  If you are searching for your own ball, you should mark any ball you lift to identify (exactly as 7.3 states in its body), and I'm suggesting that failure to do so should perhaps be a penalty regardless of the outcome of the identification.   Not sure how this would disincentivise searching for another player's ball (penalty wouldn't apply), or what the relevance of 9.6 is?

 

I guess antip means people would consider it to be too troublesome to mark every ball they find. Also the way of searching for another player's ball would become much more careful and thus slower if everybody could be penalized for moving a ball when searching.

 

I am happy how the Rule is now written.

[jimbo123]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I guess antip means people would consider it to be too troublesome to mark every ball they find. Also the way of searching for another player's ball would become much more careful and thus slower if everybody could be penalized for moving a ball when searching.

 

I am happy how the Rule is now written.

 

Again, 7.3 is about searching for your own ball.  I am not suggesting that someone be penalised for failing to mark a ball while helping another player search.   

[Mr. Bean]

10 minutes ago, jimbo123 said:

 

Again, 7.3 is about searching for your own ball.  I am not suggesting that someone be penalised for failing to mark a ball while helping another player search.   

 

Ok.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[antip]

1 hour ago, jimbo123 said:

 

Don't follow, sorry.  If you are searching for your own ball, you should mark any ball you lift to identify (exactly as 7.3 states in its body), and I'm suggesting that failure to do so should perhaps be a penalty regardless of the outcome of the identification.   Not sure how this would disincentivise searching for another player's ball (penalty wouldn't apply), or what the relevance of 9.6 is?

The 9.6 principle is there is no penalty for lifting/moving another player's ball at rest, period (irrelevant whether in search or otherwise). You are creating a new penalty circumstance that becomes an exception to that 9.6 principle.

And I thought you were proposing a penalty for anyone searching for a ball that didn't mark any ball being lifted to identify.

[jimbo123]

12 minutes ago, antip said:

The 9.6 principle is there is no penalty for lifting/moving another player's ball at rest, period (irrelevant whether in search or otherwise). You are creating a new penalty circumstance that becomes an exception to that 9.6 principle.

And I thought you were proposing a penalty for anyone searching for a ball that didn't mark any ball being lifted to identify.

 

The penalty would not be for lifting/moving another player's ball.  It would be for failing to mark a ball you are about to lift to identify (whether it ends up being yours, someone else's or a range ball).   Doesn't seem to contradict 9.6 to me, rather just more robustly enforcing what the body of 7.3 already states.  

No big deal, was just trying to understand the rationale behind the current rule to see if it unearthed anything interesting.  

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, jimbo123 said:

 

The penalty would not be for lifting/moving another player's ball.  It would be for failing to mark a ball you are about to lift to identify (whether it ends up being yours, someone else's or a range ball).   Doesn't seem to contradict 9.6 to me, rather just more robustly enforcing what the body of 7.3 already states.  

No big deal, was just trying to understand the rationale behind the current rule to see if it unearthed anything interesting.  

 

The text in Rule 7.3 is IMO a bit unclearly written. The 2nd bullet point suggests that any ball a player lifts when trying to identify their own ball must be marked. Then again the penalty clause explicitly tells us that there is a penalty only if the player's own ball is not marked when lifted. Thus I can understand it may create confusion.

[jimbo123]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

The text in Rule 7.3 is IMO a bit unclearly written. The 2nd bullet point suggests that any ball a player lifts when trying to identify their own ball must be marked. Then again the penalty clause explicitly tells us that there is a penalty only if the player's own ball is not marked when lifted. Thus I can understand it may create confusion.

 

Yes, agreed.  It's a tricky one to write simply because the player obviously doesn't know in advance if it is their own ball; at the least the penalty clause is unambiguous.   

[Colin L]

It actually seems clear enough to me.  You find a ball which might be yours.  If you have to lift it to identify it you must mark first because if it is yours, you'd get a penalty if you hadn't.   Should instead of must  would imply choice,  but there is no choice if you wish to avoid the risk of a penalty.   

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, jimbo123 said:

 

Yes, agreed.  It's a tricky one to write simply because the player obviously doesn't know in advance if it is their own ball; at the least the penalty clause is unambiguous.   

 

The penalty clause is extremely clear but the 2nd bullet stirs things.