Phil out of PGA championship

[jonsnow]

18 hours ago, Greg_B said:

The latest from Alan Shipnuck:

 

https://firepitcollective.com/askalan-phil/

 

I found this bit at the end to be the most interesting:

 

Do you feel guilty at all about all this s***, Alan? @wokekenzie

It has been uncomfortable to be in the middle of this story. I have a lot of emotions about it, but guilt isn’t one of them. I did not force Mickelson to engage in sneaky dealings with the Saudis that could subvert his home tour even as he had a clear-eyed knowledge of their atrocities. I didn’t make him call me and tell me everything. Those were his choices. He created this mess. Once I knew the real story of Mickelson’s involvement with the Saudis, I had a fiduciary duty to bring the truth to fans and other stakeholders in the game. My fidelity is to the readers, not Phil Mickelson, not the PGA Tour and certainly not the Saudis. But part of me most definitely wishes Phil had never called me. At that point, I was a week away from my publisher’s deadline and the book was basically done. It was full of fun, lively, outrageous stories about Phil and enough juicy bits to create some buzz. His phone call to me turned both of our worlds upside down.

St. Shipnuck, patron saint of Gotcha Journalism. A fiduciary duty? More like, "Hold the presses, I got some juicy s**t here!." Who needs truth when we've got Twitter?

[Scotty1140]

59 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 I am sure they all do, but Phil really tried too hard with his " man of the ( rich) people" shtick

Hubris is not becoming

 

Wait, you mean falconry at the Greenbriar isn't an everyman activity??

[aenemated]

29 minutes ago, maowv said:

(So, Norman's ego has to now deal with not even being first choice!!!)

 

There's nothing in the world I love more than seeing narcissistic chuds getting knocked down 😂

[Nard_S]

. I'm not even a Phil fan. Never liked his reckless strategy or the hot air surrounding his short game. But I wish he showed up & told everyone to stick their broom of righteousness where the sun don't shine.His faux pas, is he dissed his sponsor's client. Client is fine so long they work with an S&P company but they are now evil if they lure Phil away from PGAT. PGAT is virtuous in pursuit of their own interests but Phil has no right at all to do the same.Greg Norman is a narcissistic monster but reality is, he's not much different than many , it's just the scale of his is all the greater. I've seen salesclerks who were proportionately a lot worse. From the perspective that not everything in this world is about USA and the West, the LIV is not a bad idea. When you consider the rise of the East, the sheer weight of population and wealth that is accumulating, the Saudi's are banking that at some point, that success translates to major sports landing major events on that side of the globe. The PGAT, the NBA and others are chasing the same thing too but here we are vilifying one of the most bankable athletes of the last 25 years for basically acknowledging the greater realities of our time and trying to get his when he has the chance.Go Phil! Flip them the bird and you go man. Because the PGAT and every global enterprise and the bulk of the S&P are doing the exact same and a lot more without an ounce of soul searching, without a whiff of"what about" on their conscious. The selective outrage is nauseating.

 

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

37 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

. I'm not even a Phil fan. Never liked his reckless strategy or the hot air surrounding his short game. But I wish he showed up & told everyone to stick their broom of righteousness where the sun don't shine.His faux pas, is he dissed his sponsor's client. Client is fine so long they work with an S&P company but they are now evil if they lure Phil away from PGAT. PGAT is virtuous in pursuit of their own interests but Phil has no right at all to do the same.Greg Norman is a narcissistic monster but reality is, he's not much different than many , it's just the scale of his is all the greater. I've seen salesclerks who were proportionately a lot worse. From the perspective that not everything in this world is about USA and the West, the LIV is not a bad idea. When you consider the rise of the East, the sheer weight of population and wealth that is accumulating, the Saudi's are banking that at some point, that success translates to major sports landing major events on that side of the globe. The PGAT, the NBA and others are chasing the same thing too but here we are vilifying one of the most bankable athletes of the last 25 years for basically acknowledging the greater realities of our time and trying to get his when he has the chance.Go Phil! Flip them the bird and you go man. Because the PGAT and every global enterprise and the bulk of the S&P are doing the exact same and a lot more without an ounce of soul searching, without a whiff of"what about" on their conscious. The selective outrage is nauseating.

 

 

 

Are any Saudi's playing on the LIV or PGL? Unless they are, this isn't about expanding golf opportunity for people of those regions, it's about sportswashing.

 

The Saudi Regime is at minimum, complicit with allowing and financing of radical clerics that inflamed hate of the USA that created 9/11 hijackers.  Yeah remember what those murderers did on 9/11/01? Remember seeing those 3000 innocent people murdered in 1 day? Remember the horror of seeing innocent people jumping to their deaths from the hell fire inside the WTC's? Pilots with their throats slit by box cutters?  Oh how soon some of us forget when blinded by $$$ signs.

 

Oh and then this-- New info recently released shows linkage to Saudi Regime Operative and 9/11 hijacker.  Just google it, plenty of credible new sources picked it up.

 

Oh lets also not forget this regime also murdered and dismembered an employ of a US company only just a few years ago. 

 

Your other comparisons are largely false equivalency BS!

 

[khalespace]

5 hours ago, snagy2000 said:

Addictions are hard to beat, be it smoking, drinking, eating, shopping, sex or gambling, and you need a good supporting network to succeed... Don't wish it on anybody, hopefully he gets the proper help he needs...

Addicts can hide their problems for a long time but eventually it will surface. Tiger with sex addiction, and now Phil with gambling. It most likely will be a lifelong problem. Tiger still cheated after his treatment and Phil will continue to gamble. I feel bad for his wife. It is not an easy life being a spouse of an addict.

 

Many people say golf is boring with vanilla players like Cantlay, Morikawa or Scottie Scheffler. I prefer these no drama guys over Tiger or Phil.

['Noles2013]

6 hours ago, Greg_B said:

More on Phil, the degenerate gambler:

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/pga-tour/lehman-phil-mickelson-was-gambling-woods-during-presidents-cup

 

"Steve Flesch, who was paired with Mickelson on a Sunday during the Hyundai Team Matches, told Shipnuck that every hole Mickelson "was checking like a beeper or something." 

 

"He could not have cared any less about what we were doing on the golf course. He was definitely more concerned about who was winning the football games and who was covering the spread."

Elsewhere, five-time PGA Tour winner Tom Lehman told the author that he had a similar experience with Mickelson during the Presidents Cup in 2000.  

 

The United States ended up thrashing the International team that year, but it appears that's not what Lehman, 63, remembers it for.  

 

Lehman was paired with Lefty and they were playing Mike Weir and Steve Elkington.

He told Shipnuck: "Phil is hitting it everywhere — he's barely finished a hole through the first eight holes. He keeps saying, 'Don't worry, I’ll show up eventually.'

 

"On the ninth hole he buries it in the front bunker and is out of the hole again. He walks way back into the trees and is sitting on a stump with his back to everybody and his head down.

 

"I think he's giving himself a pep talk, so I go over there to try to make him feel better and he's got his phone out and he's checking the football scores."

Were there even phones with the capacity to check scores 22 years ago?  Unless he was actually calling someone on the golf course.  

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Are any Saudi's playing on the LIV or PGL? Unless they are, this isn't about expanding golf opportunity for people of those regions, it's about sportswashing.

 

The Saudi Regime is at minimum, complicit with allowing and financing of radical clerics that inflamed hate of the USA that created 9/11 hijackers.  Yeah remember what those murderers did on 9/11/01? Remember seeing those 3000 innocent people murdered in 1 day? Remember the horror of seeing innocent people jumping to their deaths from the hell fire inside the WTC's? Pilots with their throats slit by box cutters?  Oh how soon some of us forget when blinded by $$$ signs.

 

Oh and then this-- New info recently released shows linkage to Saudi Regime Operative and 9/11 hijacker.  Just google it, plenty of credible new sources picked it up.

 

Oh lets also not forget this regime also murdered and dismembered an employ of a US company only just a few years ago. 

 

Your other comparisons are largely false equivalency BS!

 

A friend who I played golf with for many years died from illness tied directly to 911 rescue. His widow is a like a sister to me. So spare me the indignation.

 

Saudi Arabia & US have always had a complicated relationship, still does. They actually helped us quite a bit over the many decades, even after 9/11. This will go on for a long time too. Our other ally in Mid East actively spies on us, our trading partners in the East do a whole lot more than that, commit human rights violations, represent an existential threat to all liberal democracy and have every intention of ruling the planet within the next 10 years. But since we can't stock Walmart with out them, it's all okay. It's all okay that KPMG and scores of other companies do business with scores of regimes that have problematic issues with governing but since it's good for the 401K, it's all alright. We won't say a word will we? The moment there's no money involved, we ride the broom of righteousness and feel good about ourselves. 

 

We do this time & again and a lot of people from small town USA end up dying or becoming maimed because we conveniently ignore to ask  "what about this" is wrong when money or power is on the line. Engaging all of the world via commerce is a great idea, even with the bad guys but doing it without respect to the greater geopolitical realities or some compass that we ourselves cannot live up to is not. We will pay the price for it. 

[djmohab2]

13 minutes ago, 'Noles2013 said:

Were there even phones with the capacity to check scores 22 years ago?  Unless he was actually calling someone on the golf course.  

 

Some phones had limited data ability and espn.com had a specific mobile version of the website you could access. My dad had such a phone around that time.

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, djmohab2 said:

 

Uh, isn't gambling when you have direct control of the outcome a huge no-no?

 

Isn't most gambling on the golf course betting on your own abilities when you control the outcome? 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

25 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

A friend who I played golf with for many years died from illness tied directly to 911 rescue. His widow is a like a sister to me. So spare me the indignation.

 

Saudi Arabia & US have always had a complicated relationship, still does. They actually helped us quite a bit over the many decades, even after 9/11. This will go on for a long time too. Our other ally in Mid East actively spies on us, our trading partners in the East do a whole lot more than that, commit human rights violations, represent an existential threat to all liberal democracy and have every intention of ruling the planet within the next 10 years. But since we can't stock Walmart with out them, it's all okay. It's all okay that KPMG and scores of other companies do business with scores of regimes that have problematic issues with governing but since it's good for the 401K, it's all alright. We won't say a word will we? The moment there's no money involved, we ride the broom of righteousness and feel good about ourselves. 

 

We do this time & again and a lot of people from small town USA end up dying or becoming maimed because we conveniently ignore to ask  "what about this" is wrong when money or power is on the line. Engaging all of the world via commerce is a great idea, even with the bad guys but doing it without respect to the greater geopolitical realities or some compass that we ourselves cannot live up to is not. We will pay the price for it. 

 

Yes it's a global economy and we have two way commerce between endless entities and nations, some whom we are not "friends."  The Saudi league is paying ridiculous sums of money to "has been's" and B/C level talent.  Why would they be willing to do this?  This is not like it's creating golfing opportunity for fledgling Saudi golfers, it's rather a puppet show.  There's a giant difference between "doing business with" vs being paraded around as a "puppet of."  

[Nard_S]

4 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

Yes it's a global economy and we have two way commerce between endless entities and nations, some whom we are not "friends."  The Saudi league is paying ridiculous sums of money to "has been's" and B/C level talent.  Why would they be willing to do this?  This is not like it's creating golfing opportunity for fledgling Saudi golfers, it's rather a puppet show.  There's a giant difference between "doing business with" vs being paraded around as a "puppet of."  

I don't believe the "sports washing" reasoning. They never have cared. 

 

['Noles2013]

22 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Isn't most gambling on the golf course betting on your own abilities when you control the outcome? 

 
Yep, Bernard Hopkins legally bet his entire purse on himself against Felix Trinidad.  I know for sure Rashad Evans and Justin Jaynes have done the same.

[mhdena]

What's the odds that Phil might have invested/gambled on Crypto in some form or another and lost big on that in the last few weeks?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

26 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I don't believe the "sports washing" reasoning. They never have cared. 

 

If they don't care, then why murder khashoggi? Why pay exponential sums of money for golfers of waning abilities? 

[djmohab2]

51 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

If they don't care, then why murder khashoggi? Why pay exponential sums of money for golfers of waning abilities? 

For the latter, it could be the Amazon model. Undercut the PGA Tour by overpaying the players and then sink them, leaving them with the profit afterwards?

[Greg_B]

This is one of my favorite stories about Phil's gambling from the book:

 

When it comes to betting on sports other than golf, Mickelson swims in even deeper waters. Tom Candiotti, the former big-league pitcher, was once among a big group of friends Mickelson invited to Las Vegas for the opening day of the NFL season. They woke up early in Scottsdale and flew to Vegas in Mickelson's plane. A cavernous suite at the Bellagio awaited, outfitted with a breakfast buffet and enough TVs to watch every game simultaneously. Mickelson had prepared a tip sheet with his thoughts on each game. The whole group walked down to the sports book to place their bets. Says Candiotti, "We were kind of standing around, not sure if we should let Phil go first. Finally he says "You guys go ahead because when I place my bets it might move the line."

 

(Let that sink in for a minute)

 

The entourage went upstairs and it was like a frat party on steroids: the fellas were tossing around a football and tackling each other on the plush sofas. "Then the games started and things got serious,’ says Candiotti. ‘Phil swept every morning game. He was up over a million dollars.’ Mickelson lost only a game or two in the afternoon, increasing his haul. “‘We were flying home that night, but it’s Phil’s plane, so we’re not gonna leave until he wants to, obviously,’ says Candiotti. ‘He goes down to play baccarat, and he’s struggling. We practically needed a lasso to get him out of there. He stewed all the way to the airport because he gave a lot back at baccarat. A lot.’”

[Mustard_Tiger]

What a difference a year makes. It saddens me that Phil has set fire to his reputation like this. This week should have been his time to shine in the limelight. Instead he hides until he can do the bidding of the Saudis.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Mustard_Tiger

[CasualLie]

7 hours ago, Greg_B said:

This is one of my favorite stories about Phil's gambling from the book:

 

When it comes to betting on sports other than golf, Mickelson swims in even deeper waters. Tom Candiotti, the former big-league pitcher, was once among a big group of friends Mickelson invited to Las Vegas for the opening day of the NFL season. They woke up early in Scottsdale and flew to Vegas in Mickelson's plane. A cavernous suite at the Bellagio awaited, outfitted with a breakfast buffet and enough TVs to watch every game simultaneously. Mickelson had prepared a tip sheet with his thoughts on each game. The whole group walked down to the sports book to place their bets. Says Candiotti, "We were kind of standing around, not sure if we should let Phil go first. Finally he says "You guys go ahead because when I place my bets it might move the line."

 

(Let that sink in for a minute)

 

The entourage went upstairs and it was like a frat party on steroids: the fellas were tossing around a football and tackling each other on the plush sofas. "Then the games started and things got serious,’ says Candiotti. ‘Phil swept every morning game. He was up over a million dollars.’ Mickelson lost only a game or two in the afternoon, increasing his haul. “‘We were flying home that night, but it’s Phil’s plane, so we’re not gonna leave until he wants to, obviously,’ says Candiotti. ‘He goes down to play baccarat, and he’s struggling. We practically needed a lasso to get him out of there. He stewed all the way to the airport because he gave a lot back at baccarat. A lot.’”

 

One of my favorites is young Phil bumping into Gary McCord out on the course practicing and they play 16-17-18 for $100 per hole but they have to use each other's clubs.  McCord thought he was a decent left handed player but loses all three holes to Phil playing right handed... And much later McCord learned Phil is a "righty"!

[iGolf67]

I am in my late 60s and think that 40+ years ago the Phil/LIV story would have burned out much more quickly than we see today, what with the Internet and the media's penchant for hyperbole. 

 

This whole fiasco has an air of tragedy about it. It took Phil 30+ years to build a legacy, and a few minutes of talking to put that legacy in jeopardy. 

 

We have all said things we regret, but for those in the spotlight those things get magnified 100 fold. 

[SnowbirdTom]

43 minutes ago, iGolf67 said:

I am in my late 60s and think that 40+ years ago the Phil/LIV story would have burned out much more quickly than we see today, what with the Internet and the media's penchant for hyperbole. 

 

This whole fiasco has an air of tragedy about it. It took Phil 30+ years to build a legacy, and a few minutes of talking to put that legacy in jeopardy. 

 

We have all said things we regret, but for those in the spotlight those things get magnified 100 fold. 

 

I'm mid-60s and realize there were more than words to the fuse lighting on that legacy explosion.  He is purposely trying to undermine the sport that made him a multi-millionaire for his sole benefit.

[Ghost of Snead]

I have a feeling Phil is at a crossroads now and will make a decision soon. My bet is that he will abandon the LIV Tour, return the money, and start an apology run prior to the U.S. Open. Legacy will indeed mean more than LIV $ and he may even regain some of his sponsors and possible TV contracts down the road. The only way he ever becomes a Ryder Cup captain is the apology route.

 

Prediction - press conference (similar to Tiger's in 2010) forthcoming prior to the London LIV event. 

 

 

[bobfoster]

19 hours ago, djmohab2 said:

 

Some phones had limited data ability and espn.com had a specific mobile version of the website you could access. My dad had such a phone around that time.

Absolutely. 22 years ago was still in the early days of the internet (some people still had dial-up modems), but I had a Blackberry (no touch screen, actual physical buttons that you pushed. It gave me rudimentary internet access. Could send and receive emails, and access websites - though in a very clunky way.

 

There was not really any such thing as "streaming" as we know it today - you couldn't watch an event - but there were websites that updated football and basketball scores in (relatively) real time.

[Nard_S]

17 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

If they don't care, then why murder khashoggi? Why pay exponential sums of money for golfers of waning abilities? 

They care internally, they don't seem to care how they are viewed externally. They've always been brutal, we always deferred and didn't speak up. The nature of the Khashoggi killing, the brazen way it was done is a bit surprising & alarming and it's weird they even signed off on such a blatant kill. But $2 billion to wash that? Sounds off, that's class action money. Tens of millions, yeah, maybe, Billions? Nah.That kind of money fits a grander objective.

 

I get the disdain for all the characters here, Phil, Greg & SA. But there's something more at play.

 

[khalespace]

18 hours ago, mhdena said:

What's the odds that Phil might have invested/gambled on Crypto in some form or another and lost big on that in the last few weeks?

Even with stocks, I have lost close to 30% this year. Most people have lost 20% to 40% of their stock investments. I think you are right, Phil with his tendencies, may have invested in even riskier things like Crypto.

[Mustard_Tiger]

Phil apparently not missed at the Champion's Dinner:

 

Quote

“It was a fun evening. Phil was not missed,” said Dave Stockton, who won the 1970 and ’76 PGA Championships. “I think Phil would have been a big distraction. The story here this week is the PGA.”

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/phil-mickelson-was-not-missed-pga-champions-dinner

[@_the_crook]

On 5/17/2022 at 2:21 PM, 'Noles2013 said:

Were there even phones with the capacity to check scores 22 years ago?  Unless he was actually calling someone on the golf course.  

There were data delivery devices (text mode),  pagers, that had many users. Remember that brokers, physicians, etc were always connected. 

Calendar year 2000 was not that long ago, tech-wise. It was different, but we weren't living in darkness. Cell phones have been consumer level since 1990 to be sure. 

 

[braincramp52]

5 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

Phil apparently not missed at the Champion's Dinner:

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/phil-mickelson-was-not-missed-pga-champions-dinner

Nope. At least not by the sixteen winners who attended.😁

[pingbling23]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:20 AM, iGolf67 said:

I am in my late 60s and think that 40+ years ago the Phil/LIV story would have burned out much more quickly than we see today, what with the Internet and the media's penchant for hyperbole. 

 

This whole fiasco has an air of tragedy about it. It took Phil 30+ years to build a legacy, and a few minutes of talking to put that legacy in jeopardy. 

 

We have all said things we regret, but for those in the spotlight those things get magnified 100 fold. 

It’s definitely over blown.  The constant negativity is coming from media outlets beholden to the pga tour and tiger stans.  The majority do not care.  Have you noticed how insecure tiger stans on this forum are towards Phil?  It’s very odd.  They continually push this story making it seem Phil has done the worse thing a man can do.